[Closed] Headset question / help

do you mean the fork steerer is level with the top of the stem?

or that the stem is touching the top of the headset?

when all fitted the steerer tube is level with stem, ie, theres no 5mm gap between the steerer/top of stem

You won't be able to preload your headset

In theory you need a small gap to be sure the bearings are properly pre-loaded but if all is ok and the stem bolts tightened it's probably ok.

Only issue will be if it loosens during a ride as it settles in and you need to tighten it a bit.

I always run a 5mm spacer above the stem and make sure that's not got much steerer in it.

i believe i may have put my headset back together wrong at some point....basically i have 3 lots of spacers usually under the stem, this then creates the correct 3-5mm gap as was intended

however for the last month ive been running 2 of the spacers below (which creates the level headset/steerer scenario as above), but then ON TOP OF the stem, ive then put the final third spacer on top of it before installing the top cap

so not only have a i had it sitting flush/level stem/steerer, i then created another 3mm on top of the spacer, so instead of it sitting 3-5mm above the steerer (as was built and correct), ive been running the topcap/pre load 3mm over! so im guessing ive not had the correct preload on the bearings????? (although theres no play?)

only reason i noticed was i looked at a few older pictures and noticed all 3 spacers were underneath the stem 😆

so although its not come loose, i have been getting an annoying clicking noise from what i think is the headset, would this explain??

spacers above the stem are fine and serve the same purpose as them being below.

You could run them all above if you wanted to.

for road bikes with carbon steerers the warranty is often void if a 5mm spacer is not used above the stem so that the stem clamp bolts are well down the steerer.

Did you put the crown-race back on (if you took it off)?

spacers above the stem are fine and serve the same purpose as them being below.

This, preloading the headset is nothing to do with a 3mm gap and everything to do with how tight you make the preload screw, there just needs to be enough space that the preload cap doesn't bottom out on the the steerer, while also having steerer tube inside an sufficient length of the stem clamp. I usually deliberately cut the steerer so that with my expected amount of spacers it's flush or slightly above the stem, then just run a spacer on top to allow it to be preloaded. It's a nicer set-up in terms of the stresses in the steerer and it makes it less likely that the stem will slacken off.

stevie - yep crown race was back on

wwasswas - not sure i follow, if i had the spacer above, as i have been running (with 2 below), the stem was level with the steerer, and adding my spacer as i have done above, will create a further distance for the stem bolt to create the pre-load?

am i missing something? if that gap of 3-5mm isnt present how can i possibly create the right preload?

am i missing something? if that gap of 3-5mm isnt present how can i possibly create the right preload?

Yup, you are missing something by thinking that the size of thae gap is important. It can be a 3mm gap, a 20mm gap, whatever, it never closes up fully, the preload is simply how tight you make the bolt. The gap really only closes up as the parts of the assembly settle into place, 3mm is specified as an amount that makes it unlikely you'll fully close the gap while also leaving the top of the steerer near the top of the stem for clamping strength.
Imagine the stem as a headset spacer with a handlebar clamp on, it doesn't matter where in the stack it is.

as long as there is a 3-5mm gap between the top of the steerer and the top of the stack of stem and spacers (regardless of the order they are in) then it's ok.

If all you did was swap a spacer from below the stem to above it then it should have made no difference to the ability to preload the bearings or the available 'clear' space above the steerer.

hmmm thats a bummer then! just seems a bit weird as the noise has been there pretty much since i made this error re-assmbling the headset, and it sounds like a little ticking type noise over rough ground climbing...its only when ive had a look at a few photos i realised it was not like that from new

ill put it back to how it was and see if it does cure the problem

ive essentially just put a spacer on top of the even steerer/headset, so that top space is only been held on by the stem cap/bolt

maybe thats just moving slightly when i put pressure on the bars, as the stem cap bolt isnt particuarly tight

[i]stem cap bolt isnt particuarly tight [/i]

you should undo the stem and reload the bearings and then retighten the stem bolts.

Once that's done the top cap bolt isn't needed and doesn't hold the headset together - the stem does that.

Have you pre-loaded enough?

Sometimes it' best to give it all a good wiggle and bounce up and down to make sure everything is seated and then back off the stem clamps and redo the pre-load.

Don't go too tight though.

cheers wwaswas - i gathered it didnt do anything after the bolts on the stem were tightened

i just wondered if i was getting the correct amount of preload with the spacer sitting higher than usual on the stem, but clearly not by all accounts

still worth putting it back to how it was though at least i can rule that out then if it doesnt fix the click noise

will regrease it all too to see if that helps

i used to preload to about 2NM as thats what instructions for easton haven stem suggested, that always worked a treat on my hope headset on old headset and the bearings lasted forever

not that impressed with this FSA orbit ZS one anyways tbh

also i read that some headset brands suggest NOT running any spacers ABOVE the stem also, hopefully thats the FSA way so it 'could' be the clicking noise

[i]i used to preload to about 2NM as thats what instructions for easton haven stem suggested[/i]

you sure that wasn't the stem bolt torque setting, not the preload?

Preload is more about 'feel' than an exact number.

[i]also i read that some headset brands suggest NOT running any spacers ABOVE the stem[/i]

that's odd, on a Trek frame and fork (and others) you'd be voiding the warranty.

also i read that some headset brands suggest NOT running any spacers ABOVE the stem also, hopefully thats the FSA way so it 'could' be the clicking noise

No, that wouldn't be headset brand specific, they all work the same way, there's nothing magic going on with particular brands.
I'm going to break with the traditional advice on here and suggest you do a couple of things:
As you already suggested, drop the forks and grease every part where something touches something else, including the top and bottom faces of the spacers and stem and re-assemble. Snug the pre-load bolt up using a hex key holding the short end or using a multi tool straightened out like a screwdriver (don't haul on it with the long end of a hex key) then check how freely the headset rotates by moving the bars with the wheel off the ground, if it's still totally free, give it a touch more preload and repeat until you start to find the point where either there is noticeable drag as the headset moves or the bolt actually feels like it's clamping something tight. If you start to feel a little drag as the headset moves, back it off slack and tighten back up, feeling for the point just before that. Once you've got the headset snugged up, clamp the stem and then put another nip on the preload bolt. Lots of folk will tell you this is pointless and the top cap doesn't do anything once the stem is tight and in a static sense that's true, it's not carrying the loads through the headset. What it does do though is act like the nylon in a self locking nut, meaning that as the stem gets loaded up on the steerer under the extremes of riding loads having the top cap there and tightened down a little more will prevent it slowly working up the steerer. This does work, it's pretty hard to keep the stem tight on a BMX without a combination of the steerer passing right out the top of the stem with spacers above and re-tightening the top cap as a final step.
Your headset will not make noises, come loose or wear prematurely if you do this and I'd argue that with todays integrated headsets with drop in replaceable bearings, going a little on the tight side and causing the bearings to wear slightly quicker is hugely preferable to going a little slack and having a bearing or cup moving and fretting the seat in the headtube.
If it still makes a noise once you've set it like that, it's something else.

[s]FP[/s] Sorry OP 😉

not that impressed with this FSA orbit ZS one anyways tbh

Won't this fit - http://www.probikeshop.com/chris-king-nothreadset-tapered-1-1-8-1-5/73642.html

does that headset come with a crown race???

lol

cheers carlos, saw that, sadly shite colours, would have had the black one if they'd have done it

cheers robinlaidlaw - will carefully fit the headset, ive fit tonnes before (admittedly only hope), and never had an issue, the bearings were goosed in this FSA after just 2 months use, so i have a new set, so i dont believe the bearings themself are making a noise...like i said ive set it back up to how it was orirginally with the spacers, and ill carefully grease and assemble and sort the pre load out as per your instructions (though thats pretty much how ive always done it), maybe its coincedence or maybes its to do with the headset, it certainly sounds like a clicking headset though (whichh ive had before on my hope and a quick greasing has sorted it out)