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the race to be fastest?
Is this real? I haven't heard anyone talk about speed improvements on MTBs other than to demonstrate that things that might feel slow aren't. Most people seem to be focused on how things feel. Better climbing is simply about making the climbs less of a chore. Even lighter bikes are cited as simply feeling better every time the argument starts up.
By being drawn into buying more expensive, more featured, more complex are we actually reducing some of the fun
Depends on the rider. Bear in mind that MTBing includes a huge range of people with very different desires and goals. A lot of people say they like rigid bikes because they 'feel faster'. Well, I have one, and I love riding it long distances but it doesn't feel faster on descents, it feels (and is) much slower and I am frustrated that I cannot do the things I can do on a FS bike. So I descend differently. If you are only interested in that style of riding (which is fine) then you don't need anything else. If however you also want to rip the local cheeky technical trails in the woods then you may have a better time on something else.
nickc
I know, I’ve been following this thread and I didn’t realise that so many folk seem to think XT is the minimum requirement, whereas in reality it’s only one down from the very best that Shimano offer to consumers. Deore and SLX are to my mind really good components, and even those are way above the average shifters and mechs and so on that you’d see on most bikes
It's similar to the TV thing also - people who were used to buying 10/11 speed XT cassettes for 50-70 quid, and now seeing 12 speed ones for double that. The 10/11 speed ones ate still there, but the newer, better thing costs more.
Not had a new bike for a while - don't really need more. I've two higher end road bikes from the 90's, one Dura Ace one Ultegra and both work and ride fantastically. I had money as a single young male. I commute on my old 90's LX/XT MTB, and also have a Boardman Pro FS (green silver model) that's way more capable than me, and everything is relatively easy to maintain on it - I'd not do anything flashier the justice.
I used to race when younger, so that's why one of the road bikes is top of the range.
Road bikes haven't changed much (I did have a new road bike for commuting, but got rid as I wasn't road commuting anymore - accident)
MTB's have changed massively.
Prices have gone up massively on full builds but you don't need to buy a £6k superbike to have fun on the trails. £1,500 gets you an amazing hardtail with modern geo and durable Deore or SLX components.
The issue for me is that component prices have risen, but quality control and durability has gone right down. SRAM / Rock Shox are particularly bad for this e.g. GX Eagle cassettes that constantly need teeth grinding down to stop clicking, the bushing issue on new SID forks, DUB bottom brackets etc etc etc. All issue that I've personally experienced.
Deore’s good enough for Wyn Masters.
2nd Elite and most laps that day, I think.
Yes, Deore and a hardtail. With a Fox 38 on the front 🙂
I think the thing is that there's fun to be had across the spectrum. I've not been riding long, but I started out with bodged together 2008-era bikes assembled from cheap used parts and hand-me-downs -- decent enough bikes for sure, but which cost me in the low hundreds to build. I had a blast riding them!
But my day to day bike now is a modern hardtail with better geometry (for the stuff I like to ride), a chunky fork, big wheels, long dropper, clutch mech. It's undeniably better for everything. It was more expensive (maybe 6x the cost of one of my old beaters), but it's better.
If I had to I'd ride the old 2008 bikes again. For me spending a bit more is worthwhile. The idea that you need XT and Hope all over to enjoy riding doesn't really compute, but ultimately for most people MTB is a fun hobby and so the notion of "needing" any of it is ridiculous.
Yes, Deore and a hardtail. With a Fox 38 on the front 🙂
Factory 38, no less! I know someone would pick up on that - it was pinched off his enduro race bike.
Like the 'AM' thread, this shows the success of marketing guff!
notion of “needing” any of it is ridiculous.
its an interesting subject.
Have i been 'priced out' of riding... nope, as i could go and buy a £1000 hardtail that would allow me to do most (if not all) of the trails i ride today. Would things break or wear out quicker... possibly, but generally a 1k-1.5k hardtail is a solid bike these days.
I am lucky enough to have a pretty tricked out Norco Optic that i adore and ride everywhere and anywhere. I have upgraded many parts over the last two and a bit years, which also makes being 'priced out' a little less painful.
If i did want to buy a new FS, then my theoretical budget might not get me top of the line stuff, but it would certainly get me a very good bike, that with my skill set i probably would never outride.
I am lucky in the fact that i like what i like (and/or perceive to be the best item for me), which leads me not to care what others think about my bike or me. Regularly riding Surrey hills, you get to see a lot of bike bling, but it doesnt make me judge that person.... unless they are riding an ebike 😛
In all walks of life you get 'all the gear, no idea' folks, but if they are having fun, it doesnt matter how much cash they have spent on their bikes and gear.
In 2019 I paid a daft amount for my big 160 full bounce. In 2020 I build my hardtail up for around 1100 , Ive spent more time on the cheaper hardtail with gx slx mix and lyrics up front, its done everything from xc rides to 3000 foot days and blacks to boot .
Prices never comedown and unlike when Hope gave refunds on their HB160 most will try to make up funds from 2 years of Covid and worse to come maybe.
I think as long as companies offer %0 no one will be priced out.
Blimey this thread has run on a bit hasn't it.
TBH I think this is just a matter of expectations exceeding reality.
Yes if you want to buy a carbon Dandyhorse dripping with XT/XTR/GX/X0 or whatever then (Shocka!) it's not cheap.
But do you actually need it? For most of us the answer is going to be a resounding "Nah".
And do you need a new bike every ~24 months? Nope, probably not, baring a proper smash they're actually pretty durable...
Who's actually gone out and bought a whole new bike during Covid? Who's just "Made do" with whatever they already had?
I'm not sure I buy the narrative that everyone is constantly upgrading and replacing their toys, I think we've had more people taking up cycling in the last couple of years, pushing the idea that it's an expensive hobby won't help to retain all of those people...
Actually enjoyable cycling isn't expensive, the outside world is (mostly) free and once you have a bike, any bike, you can go and ride it for prices starting from 0.00£/mile bikes and cycling are great!
Yes people derive some of their pleasure in life from owning and touching expensive things and that's fine, but pricey bikes/kit aren't actually essentials for cycling. And the lack of a £5k+ wonder bike certainly doesn't mean people are "Priced out" of whatever niche of cycling they fancy just because their budget is more modest.
I think there's a danger that the presentation of cycling (in general) by the companies flogging the kit, and the various mags/websites (also reliant on advertising money) give the false impression that it's all forests full of "carpark bitches and "new golfers" showing off their credit rating with a shiny new Santacruz/Yeti/Whatever, colour matched clothing and all the gadgets every "Season"...
The truth is the majority of people have a fraction of that high-roller budget available, and won't be spending the money they do have anything like as frequently as the the industry would clearly like.
Don't mistake the hype machine for reality...
Blimey this thread has run on a bit hasn’t it.
8 pages in and we’re no closer to being able to recommend the OP a bike, as we don’t know what they want, save for XT, or what their budget is…
I'm late to this party so apologies if I turned up with a bottle of Riesling and you're already on the C+H
I fell lucky that I have a relatively modern geometry FS trail bike (2015 Mk II Orange Five) that predates the 'cracking period' and a 2018 Clockwork for winter and gravel stuff. Neither seems to cost much money, both are 11 speed so share drivetrain spares. They're both on the second / third drive train but because neither are Superboost / 12 speed / microspline and because I rode out the Covid-tax with existing spares, neither costs a ton of money. The Five was well built from the start with UK-proof parts, a decent Stans Flow + Hope wheelset and a still-perfect Thomson dropper protected by a dirt flap.
It was never my intention to keep it this long but I have absolutely no plans to move on. It helps that I'm more gazelle than rhino on a bike.
@scuttler - I'm in the same situation with my 2018 Bird AM9. The geometry is still very much relevant and it's no less fun to ride today than when I bought it so there's no real need to change. Having said that my LBS had a couple of nice Marin Alpine Trails in recently, the XR with coil shock and a carbon C2, and both seem to be reasonably good value for money.
Anyone want to flog me a LLS bike from the last 5 years let me know 🙂
8 pages in and we’re no closer to being able to recommend the OP a bike, as we don’t know what they want, save for XT, or what their budget is…
But I didn’t ask for recommendations. If I wanted to I’d start a specific thread, and this forum is always super helpful for that.
Just been looking for a new 11 speed 11-46 cassette as I exploded the one on my eeb last week.
https://www.tweekscycles.com/uk/microshift-xle-h113-11-speed-cassette-2015610/?sku=HOT832796&istCompanyId=56f52ebf-49f3-492a-9cbb-cb6ab0fc1bf0&istFeedId=33b89177-5114-4491-9c2a-09a3a7cb23b2&istItemId=pxqlariim&istBid=t&gclid=CjwKCAjw8sCRBhA6EiwA6_IF4Qi7tyqBiEgaYAMexXMEgVjJtdqKiiAJhCTXKdcHyvslswOSm7TbnRoCKHsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
50 quid for this seems pretty good value to me.
Even more so when a steel chainring is going to cost me 40 quid.
Being made of steel it might even get to wear out before it explodes like to last one.
There's plenty of cheapish stuff out there if you look away from the main players.
I was looking for some tyres for an alps trip this week - minion doubledowns are out of stock nearly everywhere and going for £85(!!!) where they are in stock.
Yes, aware that tyres for an alps trip is a first world problem.
Wouldn’t you better off with skis in the alps this week
Let's face it not many on here will be priced out.
It's the home of spare Lyriks in the loft, barn conversions, holiday lets, designer watches, Audi RS6 and tyre mountains.
STW is responsible for market over valuation/hype/RRP due to buying double/triple just in case and cleaning everything out in sales!
STW is responsible for market over valuation/hype/RRP due to buying double/triple
Wow, never knew there were so many thousands of people on STW to control global markets, RRP and so on. Incredible.
I think Chester was being more than a little ironic.
I think Chester was pretending to be ironic but actually totally serious.
I agree with Chester but only ironically.
It’s the home of spare Lyriks in the loft, barn conversions, holiday lets, designer watches, Audi RS6 and tyre mountains.
I don’t think that’s the case for most of us tbh. If anybody has some Loft Lyriks taking up space in their converted hayloft at their holiday let PM me and I’ll take them off your hands.
I kind of get what the OP is getting at, I haven't been priced out of biking, i own a couple of decentish bikes and it costs me nothing to ride them. However if they were stolen then at this time i certainly couldn't afford to replace them at all.
Last week Planet X were offering the On one Freeranger at £1500, seemed a good deal and was hoping to grab one, however after running it past the household finance director (wife) it soon became apparent that with a daughter going to university in September that I won't be getting a new bike until 2025 or 2027 if second daughter chooses to go to uni as well.
And it's not just new bikes, add to the list abroad holidays, new kitchen, clothes bought outside of sales etc. basically anything other than the essentials, and i'm not really badly paid, it just feels like it!
And it’s not just new bikes, add to the list abroad holidays, new kitchen, clothes bought outside of sales etc. basically anything other than the essentials, and i’m not really badly paid, it just feels like it!
Wait until 1st April, and everything goes up except wages.
I think Chester was being more than a little ironic.
Okay, in that case they get 1/10.
This place has nothing on mtbrforums
Where a perfectly reasonable thread will have someone buying an 8k 140 mm trail bike. Buy some new 160mm forks at full rrp. Pay their lbs to fit them. Ride it once on their local trails, attribute the decline in performance to the 20mm of travel (and not the change in angles and bb height) . And conclude that 160 bikes ride like shit and are useless. And then people agree with them
I was looking for some tyres for an alps trip this week
Get yer £25 High Roller STs on for Morzine bitd
Super Tackys front and rear, no fear of roots AND save brake pads because you go slower.
This place has nothing on mtbrforums
‘Think I might just give this junk XX1 AXS away’ is my favourite comment from there…
Wait until 1st April, and everything goes up except wages.
I'm a public sector worker, this has been happening since 2010 🙂
@funkmasterp PM sent re Loft Lyriks
Unlucky I made him an offer he can't refuse. Let's just say it involves a night at Cheadle Premier Inn!
I was taking the piss but appreciate the offer from Tracey. Anybody got a frame that takes a set of Lyriks hanging about in their second home?
The OP is a bit silly. You’ve not been priced out of biking. You’re just a bike snob. Not necessarily a bad thing, just don’t whine when you have to downgrade. Work on your skillz until you can make an Apollo look like the shit when you’re riding it.
I don’t ride particularly regularly so I’m recent years I’ve dropped down spec to Deore because whilst I can afford more, I can’t justify it.
The only thing I’m still snobby about is suspension, so I’ve got some 36 Rhythm forks and a DHX2 coil on a bike that gets ridden sometimes as rarely as once every 2 months. I only have the 36’s because my Yari’s were just out of their depth and it was cheaper to get these than a charger damper.
If I had to sell up and start again (current bike is a Bird Aether 7) I’d probably end up with a Vitus Mythique and just upgrade the forks. I think they’re still a bargain.
I think it just comes down to what you're prepared to pay for and whether you have to have the latest and greatest to enjoy yourself. The bike is only a small part of the experience - there's the scenery, the weather, the terrain and your riding friends. Of course it's a big deal if something is mechanically off, but you definitely don't need to spend big money to have fun, and the amount you spend on your bike does not directly correlate to the amount of fun you have. I've had an enormous amount of giggles on a £150 Dawes singlespeed rigid frame and forks built up with random bits from my spares bin. I remember having an absolutely miserable time in the Alps for an entire fortnight on a brand new Marin a while back. Run what you brung and don't sweat how much you have to spend. I'm still on 10 speed on both bikes. An extra two gears won't make me happier, but it sure as hell will make me poorer.
Pricings not too bad if you only buy a bike ever 5 years or so. And dont buy loads of kit unless you really need it.
I feel like I've been 'out stocked' of biking as I would like a new bike to replace my 2015 one but there's no stock anywhere.
I love my bike (SC Hightower v1) which i got in the sale for 40% off when the latest version was released. Its great BUT the constant press / marketing / forum comments about even more LLS geometry does taint my enjoyment as its hard to ignore all noise that my head angle needs to be 2+ degrees slacker.
No way i can afford a new bike but as i ride places like stiniog more these days the pressure to cough up for something else so i can be faster / safer is noticeable.
its hard to ignore all noise that my head angle needs to be 2+ degrees slacker
https://www.workscomponents.co.uk
I’m still on 10 speed on both bikes. An extra two gears won’t make me happier, but it sure as hell will make me poorer.
I'm sticking with 11 speed for similar reasons.
Secondhand metal frames (sized up), high-quality suspension purchased wisely, aluminium rimmed wheels, slackening headsets.
My bikes are just as capable and on par for weight and (most of the) geometry of new £5-6k machines.
Of course it's taken years of bike-geeking to know how to do this, but there has to be some kind of payoff, eh?
The OP is a bit silly. You’ve not been priced out of biking. You’re just a bike snob.
Or a victim of rampant consumerism and industry hype generated by our mad capitalist system that's determined to basically produce more and more stuff until we've completely obliterated the world's resources in the process.
I'm sure it's been said already, but there's a difference between the experience of 'biking' and owning the latest bike. The genius of consumerism is that it's successfully conflated the two in the pursuit of endless commercial growth.
I’m still on 10 speed on both bikes. An extra two gears won’t make me happier, but it sure as hell will make me poorer
I've gone from 11 speed to 10 speed... thanks to the wide range Deore cassette. Last kit I bought was under £100 for shifter, mech and cassette. It's lighter than 11 or 12 speed XT... as well as being cheaper than either.
You can get a better bike for less money these days... and better replacement parts without spending more... unless you think that XT/XTR and Kashima etc are essential for your pleasure.
If you want, you can get great priced 12 speed as well, if you feel you need it. The Deore 12 speed is amazing. Less enamoured by the more affordable SRAM though, I think you need to pay the extra there for GX level, sadly.
I’ve gone from 11 speed to 10 speed… thanks to the wide range Deore cassette. Last kit I bought was under £100 for shifter, mech and cassette. It’s lighter than 11 or 12 speed XT… as well as being cheaper than either.
I would be open to this as well, but I'm tied into XD freehubs now.
Which shifter & mech are you using?
Saint shifter + Deore mech. I'm tied into HG, so not the same issue. You might as well stay 11 speed (ignores price of Sram XD cassettes).
No-ones priced out of biking (other than those unfortunate to find themselves on the poverty line), but people may be priced out of the latest trends.
My favourite bikes run on 8 speed.
PG-850 cassettes were £7 each in a sale a while back on Wiggle.
PC-830 chains are £6 each
Jockey wheels are around £7
Cables are £2 each
Chainrings cost me around £14 each
So to replace the entire drivetrain we're talking around £50
Yep, 11/12/13 speed stuff may perform better, weigh less and look cooler, but 8 speed drivetrains never seems to snap, need less maintenance/setup, and cost nothing.
Cycling doesn't have to cost much, but only if you don't care about that tiny performance gain or how you look.
If you're skint, you can easily still ride and have fun - don't stop riding just because you can't afford the same level of components that you used to ride - life's too short.