[Closed] Have skills courses become the latest de rigueur accessory?

yes. very much so. especially on here.

It is too easy to focus on the bike/kit when trying to fix problems but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more.

assuming you don't pick up a bad habit and then compound it.

It's far from impossible to improve on your own, or by riding with mates, better riders etc.

not impossible. much easier to learn from someone who is good [b]and can impart that skill[/b] than bimbling around on your own. also some 'good' riders have poor technique them selves.

or by riding with mates, better riders etc.

This will also work... especially if you spend the time looking at better riders and sharing your knowledge with those wanting to improve.

i'm booked on a skills course, but only because mrsconsequence hasnt stopped raving about it since, its improved her riding and confidence massively.... i watched her do a small jump and get some air on sunday... i can't do that.... yet 🙂

Mountain biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory.

but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more

Au contraire, Blackadder.

I've been riding for 20 years, and am happy to ride down stuff which is as steep as you like. Jumps, however, are a different kettle of fish. I'm just rubbish at them, and no amount of attempting has improved this.

Someone talking me through what/when/how to do is what I need. Even if it's something really easy, it'll be worth the amount.

FWIW, I went 6 seconds faster at Bedford Autodrome with an instuctor than without. Same day, almost identical car. For me, training pays.

I used to windsurf - it's totally normal to start with a course to learn the basics.

I climb a bit - it's normal to learn via a more experienced climber, or by going on courses. it's rare to teach yourself trad climbing..

So why not with biking? Just because we learn to ride as children doesn't mean we can't learn from a good instructor later in life. It's probably become popular as (I expect) there are really good courses available now.

And to be brutally honest, the way I see many riders tackling descents at xc/enduro events there's a good market for skill training (and I could do with learning more in some areas where i know i'm not good). I was shown a few lines by a faster downhiller at Aston Hill a while back, i'd not realised how they could work out to be faster and smoother. That was a mini-skill course.. I'd see no reason not to pay for a day of that kind of advice from someone who's good at what they do.

the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more.

Riding more on its own will not yeild skills improvements - riding the same stuff at the same speed will just mean you ride more. I spent years trying to get faster at DH racing just doing more runs, with no real improvement.

Riding with targets and goals is much more likely to lead to an improvement.

I just ride for fun but if I can't do something, I'll keep hitting it until I can (unless I decide it's beyond me).

Some people are happy just riding their bikes.

Some people are happy riding their bikes, but would like to improve their skills.

Some people aren't happy with their riding as they feel their current skillset is holding them back somewhat and really want to improve fast.

If you're in either of the latter 2 groups, some skills coaching is going to make a serious difference, and to be honest, even if you're just happy as you are now some coaching can still make you enjoy your riding more.

Put it this way, how many people go skiing or snowboarding without ever having had some lessons or coaching at least to start with? Why should cycling be so much different? Just cos it's easier to "just ride along" on a bike than it is on skis or a board initially, having done all 3 sports I'd argue that when you get beyond the basics, Mountain Biking requires a significantly more complex set of skills to master than Skiing of Snowboarding, quite possibly due to the extra complexity of the machine but also the terrain and other factors too.

Riding more has just reinforced all my bad habits so that they are really hard to change now 🙄 skills course here I come. Speaking personally - fashion no, more benefit to me than some bike parts for the same cost, yes.

"Mountain biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory."

Show me something in life that isn't a fashion / staus accessory to some people.

...But if a lone rider rides in the woods and nobody sees him, is it possible for him to be fashionable? )

Totally agree with what GG says. More fashion in MTB'ing than on the catwalk these days. Obviously the marketing works. As for training if you think you need it have it, just don't forget what it's all about ... FUN

GlitterGary - Member
Mountain biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory.

[i]The[/i] fashion accessory to have on this forum 😆

[i]Some people are happy just riding their bikes.[/i]
That's me, that is.

I think skills courses would help more if done right at the beginning of peoples riding.

Once you have been riding for a while it is very difficult to change that. Most of us are not disciplined enough to let our riding level go backwards in order to go forwards.

I think once you ride at a reasonable level you need a lot of coaching to make a difference and it needs to be on going.

[i]"...how many people go skiing or snowboarding without ever having had some lessons or coaching at least to start with? Why should cycling be so much different..."[/i]

Because most of us in the UK grew up riding a bike round where we live and picked it up as we went along.
Skiing and snowboarding are usually done during limited time on an expensive holiday, so it makes sense to gain as much skill as quickly as possible to make the most of that time.

Do people who grow up in skiing areas go on skiing skills courses or do they just learn from experience the way we do on bikes ?

'Totally agree with what GG says. More fashion in MTB'ing than on the catwalk these days. Obviously the marketing works. As for training if you think you need it have it, just don't forget what it's all about ... [s]FUN[/s] TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY SHOULD THINK.'

Fixed it for ya.

You are not going to improve unless you know which area is lacking and how to fix it - and even if you do know how to fix it (from reading maybe?) it doesn't mean that you will actually make the required changes on the bike without someone watching/videoing you to show you when you are doing it or when you just think you are.

If you try to make a change of A, most times you will change a small percentage towards A although you think you are making the full change.

riding more will just groove in the bad practises and make it harder to change.

I ski as well, started off with lessons, then read books, then developed some bad habits, recognised this and did some drills to try to drop them, then fixed it fully with more tuition.

De-rigueur or not, would say a good skills course is a great way to improve.
I wasn't really sure what a skills day could give me but got a voucher for christmas. I have been riding and racing for almost 20 years and fairly quick on technical terrain but a days skills course did so much more for me than I could have hoped. Lot more confident and 'stable'.
Perhaps others on the skills day I was on, with less experience, learnt more new techniques than I did but conversely I felt I got the techniques sorted by the end of the day rather than still learning (although still think a lot of the learning happens after the course, as the instructor said). Think just having some one point out your mistakes and know how to correct, correctly them really helps.
I went from feeling confident on terrain, to feeling like a pro/expert rider, totally amazed at what I learnt. So would say money on a skill day is well spent, much better than the latest this or that..

No other accessory has improved my riding as much as a skills day did. After five years of 'just riding my bike', like what he said up there, I came back amazed at what I learnt. (Jules Fincham at Laggan - still owed virtual pint!)

post a thread asking how to do a wheelie.

1. read a load of people trying to explain in words how to do it
2. watch a video of someone doing it
3. do it
4. practice it

skills course takes care of 1 & 2 and makes sure you do it right at 3, leaving you to simply practice

in reality everyone knows that a half drunk can of cider in one hand and a ciggy in the other, riding either a hot bike or BSO is the only sure way to achieve the wheelie.

BWD you're barking up the wrong tree. I was telling people what I think 🙂

I cant ride to save my life so Ive booked on to a fashionable course too.
Lets hope he can work his magic and suggest some colour coded accessories to make me better.
I'll update upon my return 🙂

ps. I genuinely do travel faster when my gloves match my jersey!! And I can run faster in new trainers FACT!

Coaching, for anything, is not an accessory. If folks on here enthuse about their favorite cycling coach it's because they genuinely feel it was worthwhile and want others to experience the benefit too. You cant show it off, like a flash new bike, but you can impress yourself with some new skills and confidence.

but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more

Nope. Not riding will make you worse for sure, but just repeating what you know will not improve you.

Everyone plateaus at some point, at anything, and some earlier than others. Coaching helps those who want to progress beyond their current plateau.

1. read a load of people trying to explain in words how to do it
2. watch a video of someone doing it
3. do it
4. practice it

Mental stuff yes, but this rarely works for me with anything physical. I struggle to translate what I'm seeing and reading into how it works and how it should feel and I'm not physically brave enough to be relaxed about experimenting and falling off. Helping with all this is what a good couch does.

Even just one day of coaching with Stuart has made a noticeable difference to me, for the same price as an XT cassette. I want more, when I can find time.

when you are a kid, you get 'dared' to step up, which you inevitably do and progress.

As you get older, you may improve with your group of buddies, assuming they are still pushing the envelope of course..

Most people who have been on said skills courses are more than impressed with what they have learnt.

Now if someone did a 'how to manual all the way to the pub' course, I reckon we'd all be up for that!

best bet for people needing a skills course is a hardtail, or a bmx..

not trying to offend anyone by the way..i just dont get it..you dont see skateboarders or bmxers doing skills courses,.. but then alot of them arent tubby middle aged weekend warriors..

I think in terms of what we spend on components, coaching is probably the best 'upgrade' you could ever make.

In the same way, I keep thinking I should get a fitting session (£200?) instead of spending the £500 I've earmarked for new wheels (500g saving?) for my road bike.

not trying to offend anyone by the way..i just dont get it..you dont see skateboarders or bmxers doing skills courses,.. but then alot of them arent tubby middle aged weekend warriors..

Skateboarders and BMXers skills coures:
http://www.teamextreme.co.uk/Shows/coaching.html

Beanieripper- They can't handle the truth! 😉

you dont see skateboarders or bmxers doing skills courses

Don't you?

http://www.campwoodward.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=529&Itemid=562

http://www.teamextreme.co.uk/Shows/coaching.html
/p>

http://www.hardknox.co.uk/Default.htm

http://www.radworx.co.uk/Radworx/Welcome.html

Not proper ones!

sorry beanieripper, it appears you are middleaged, clinging onto youth with a distasteful desperation. (it werent loike that in moi day!)

most of my lads friends have done bmx training of some sort - much like on here, once one tries it, it catches on and spirals out of control

Mountain biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory.

Yes, sort of, or probably a new alternative to golf that middle aged men can spend their cash on.

I guess the side of mtbing that appeals to these people is the more "extreme" side of things (downhill) since it appears more impressive when they're describing it the lads in the office or down the pub.

However, due to catching the sport later on in life, its probably to difficult/risky to learn jumps without some form of guidance. Hence skills days and coaching.

I'm all for it, if I could be bothered then I'd go on a skills day myself.

If someone has the money to spare, they will blame their kit, and seek advise about 'upgrading' it. Then they will pay to go on a course to 'improve' their riding.

Those who don't have the money, just get out and ride - and learn it's not about the bike 90% of the time - it's the rider.

I'll never go on a course... no chance.... been riding too long.

Arrogant... yes, perhaps, but I don't give a monkeys.

Will report back in a few weeks as I have just booked a course.

The only experience I have of coaching is of windsurfing. On the course all goes well but here in UK it can be months before you get to put the things leant into practise. Am hoping this is where the bike will score massively as I should be able to practise within a few mins of the garage.

To tell the truth I am quite excited but also a little nervous in case the course is full of riding gods and whippets leaving me lacking in every department.

Anything that requires coordination and body movement will improve with proper coaching - even the most natural at any sport will improve with coaching. I played rugby at National Div 4 level. The club wanted to improve the players speed on the pitch. We started with speed training and fitness for a few weeks. It speeded us all up. We then plateaued. They brought the sprint coach in from the local athletics club who taught us all proper sprinting form. At least a second each improvement over the 100m.

Other branches of cycling use coaching from early on - don't think that riding a mountain bike makes you a demi-god on your own - even roadies aren't that up themselves.

davidtaylforth

Yes, sort of, or probably a new alternative to golf that middle aged men can spend their cash on.

I guess the side of mtbing that appeals to these people is the more "extreme" side of things (downhill) since it appears more impressive when they're describing it the lads in the office or down the pub.

First of all, you're wrong. The side of mountain biking that appeals to "golfers" is definitely all mountain. They like the expense of the bikes, the various technologies and they like something that is fancier than everything else in the trail centre car parks. Of course they would be better off with an xc bike but they'll buy a top of the range Cannondale Jekyll or Scott Genius etc because they need some skills compensation and they aspire to ride more technical terrain.

There is an implied derogatory tone in your post towards downhill which is prevalent on stw and it is pathetic. You talk as if dh was just show boating for self aggrandizing pub talkers and show offs.

It is the pinnacle of moutainbiking in terms of rider skill, bravery, technology and spectacle. It is inevitable that it should be attractive to people and thank god it is otherwise we would be stuck with roadies in drag mincing around fire roads and middle management tw*ts on ti singlespeeds poncing around bridleways.

Pretty sure most people could benefit from a skills course. Rather than spending money on shiny bits, why not spend it on something that actually improves your riding?

'Just riding' isn't the answer, I know lots of people who have ridden for years and may be fit, but have not got much better in terms of skill level.

First of all, you're wrong. The side of mountain biking that appeals to "golfers" is definitely all mountain. They like the expense of the bikes, the various technologies and they like something that is fancier than everything else in the trail centre car parks. Of course they would be better off with an xc bike but they'll buy a top of the range Cannondale Jekyll or Scott Genius etc because they need some skills compensation and they aspire to ride more technical terrain

That's not right - I was a keen golfer, then I gave up and bought an XC mountain bike purely for fitness, did 70 miles offroad a weekend all year round whatever the weather.

Took me 15 years before I bought an expensive FS, and then it is only short travel.

'Just riding' isn't the answer, I know lots of people who have ridden for years and may be fit, but have not got much better in terms of skill level

You won't get better, unless you ride with more 'experienced' riders.

Hence coaching - riding with someone who's better than you (but can also break down everything and explain if required).

Or just find some other riding mates/mate...

It is the pinnacle of moutainbiking in terms of rider skill, bravery, technology and spectacle.

Can I have that on a t shirt please?

So - you are a power ranger who feels unloved on STW? Bless. C'mere and gis a hug you big brave hero.

*hugs*

you can get better if you know what you want to work on and can gauge any improvement or not - it is just much more efficient with a coach, especially when you think you are making a change when you are not.

'Tis the way of the middle class, money-rich, time-poor weekend warrior; buy yourself a better bike, buy yourself a better set of tyres, buy yourself more suspension, buy yourself some skills...

I'm sure that skills days and coaching will make better riders out of some people, but so will a bit more commitment and actual attempts to make yourself better by practice.

Cycling is the new golf, for sure. How long before we get resident bike coaches at the trail centre ala the golf pro?

Giving up golf to take up cycling is a good thing IMO. So they are relative novices who can afford £3K bikes... so what? As long as they enjoy riding, who cares if they are relatively unskilled, or what they ride?

Stop sneering, it's unbecoming!

they aspire to ride more technical terrain

Doesn't everyone want to enjoy the full scope of trails that are available? I certainly do.

[s]Mountain[/s] biking has become a bit of a fashion accessory.

Does it matter though, I think the whole world has woken up to cycling, that's great, in fact that's amazing.

Mountain Biking requires a significantly more complex set of skills to master than Skiing of Snowboarding

Yes, as an MTBer, Skier and Snowboarder at broadly similar standard (intermediate) I agree. For comparison:

Skiing: 15 days coaching, ~35 days riding before quitting to take up...
Snowboarding: 6 days coaching, ~60 days riding
Cycling: 3 days coaching (dad, cycling proficiency, forestfreeride), ~250 days riding

Im not middle aged as far as im aware, what im trying to say is surely some people dont need a skills course as much as some other people. ive not come accross much in the UK that i would think ide need a skills course to ride! What happened to your belief in natural ability.

i'm booked on a skills course, but only because mrsconsequence hasnt stopped raving about it since, its improved her riding and confidence massively.... i watched her do a small jump and get some air on sunday... i can't do that.... yet

Phil where/which course you on I found one site offering courses in swinley but they never appear to have any dates.

What happened to your belief in natural ability

I had zero abilities to begin with; all I can do I have learned.

The idea that some people have a "magical" natural ability, discourages everyone else from the commitment needed to improve; me included.

An inspiring quote from the great Reinhold Messner:

I am not a genius climber; I am not a high-altitude superman [doctors have proved it]. My success is down to my enthusiasm

lol..whatever next, skills courses for babies for walking tips, and they could do a pre walking, crawling skills course too!

"More fashion in MTB'ing than on the catwalk these days"

No more now than before - do you remember the londoners on Muddy Foxes back in the 80s?

Seeing more fashion in riding "these days" may say more about your perception of it all than the riding 'scene' itself. It always has had a fashion element - more in DH - DJ than anywhere else, look at all the Fort Bill groms with their Lacondeguy-alike caps and vests and jeans. It's a style. It's cool, BMX-like.

I don't see how a skills session for trail riding is fashionable tho. I don't see how trail riding or XC is cool / fashionable full stop, it's a tech-geek's or outdoor-types pass-time and i love it for that.

"skills courses for babies for walking tips, and they could do a pre walking, crawling skills course too!"

😀 Parents provide a lot of walking coaching to toddlers, don't they?

it's a good point, but we learn to do all these things ourselves don't we? you can encourage a baby to walk but ultimately it will do it itself. Do you think Danny MacAskill had a skills course on doing front flips? I think they are useful for some people and less useful for others..maybe ive stereotyped what i think is your average skills course attendee... fat, 5k bike, office job, unfit and sh1t on a bike..

maybe ive stereotyped what i think is your average skills course attendee

Yes, I think you'll find you have.

Are they being suggested anymore than "buy component X it will improve your riding" or "you need a *blank* it will solve your problem"??

Myself, my partner and her daughter have all been on courses at the Dales Bike Centre.

I've beeen riding for years, they were roadies and pretty new to it all.

I got my ingrained bad habits sorted out, they got a great core set of skills to practise.
We all gained a huge amount of confidence, met some decent people and had a great time.

Not cheap mind, but still good value, if that makes sense.

Do you think Danny MacAskill had a skills course on doing front flips? I think they are useful for some people and less useful for others

Do you think you'd know Danny MacAskill's name if he wasn't the pinnacle of what he does? 99% of bike riders could never do that. I've seen him race before - he was beaten by a few people who were better than him at racing. Some coaching would probably improve that.

Did you get taught to drive, or were you god's gift at that as well?

Who taught the teachers/coaches?

I've been riding bikes for years, and used to bmx a lot, and I still found a skills course very worthwhile. There's no point practicing and riding loads if what you're practicing is wrong.. I still feel like I have a few bad habits that I need to work on ironing out. And now when I fall I know why it happened which is nice rather than wondering what actually went wrong 🙂

beanieripper - at some point to prove you're not a troll you need to put your money where your mouth is... have you any footage of your awesomeness? Without it, you should just get back in your box.

xiphon - Member

You won't get better, unless you ride with more 'experienced' riders.

Clearly not true.

beanieripper - Member

ive not come accross much in the UK that i would think ide need a skills course to ride!

The coaching I've had hasn't made any difference to what I'll ride or not ride- it's just made a difference to how I ride it. I'm not a bad rider but I think just about everyone has their bad habits and gaps, for me coaching was (is) about taking off the rough edges.

And yeah, I think it was better value than bike parts. But it's all just part of the bigger picture.

[quote=don simon]Who taught the teachers/coaches?

Who says the teachers/coaches can't learn an equal amount (perhaps more) from their students?

If you're not a coach/teacher with industry qualifications, how do you measure your skill level against theirs?

What makes them a 'better' rider if you remove the teaching element?

( Not trollin'.... just askin' )

EDIT:

I don't want to get too entrenched in this, but a couple of factual points from real experience:

First, most people I coach are either outdoor types who want to have a go at mountain biking as well as the other sports they enjoy. Or people who have been riding for a while and want to improve. Sometimes because they can't figure out how some of their riding buddies are quicker, or just because they feel their skills are holding them back.

A fat IT professional on an expensive talent compensator is a rare beast, in my experience. Having said that, I bet that nearly no-one I have seen is on STW (which probably reflects mountain bikers as a whole).

Second, the coach needs to be good at coaching and riding. But not necessarily faster/"better" than the person they are coaching. I've ridden with XC racers who would certainly lap quicker than me, but have spots of poor technique that would make them even quicker if they could fix them. Does it matter that my aerobic speed is lower? No. I've also ridden with people who can do all sorts of clever tricks on a BMX and jump better than me, but they don't corner as well at XC riding as I do. That's the area they can be helped in. You quickly realise that comparing riders against each other doesn't make sense except in a very limited context e.g. a race or a particular feature

Coaching does frequently seem to be offered up as a solution on here. Doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Not so sure about skills courses, but apart from confidence boosting, what exactly do you learn ??? Aidan above says cornering, but thats body position, weighting etc. with practise that just comes ( doesn't it ? ) For a novice being shown the basics could help, but everyones a bit different, there's not one perfect style that makes everyone better. Look at the pro's hardly any ride exactly the same. At the end of the day your riding will be limeted to your physical abiliities, balance , coordination, strenght and stamina.
What goes on during a days training to improve those attributes ?? I could go on a 100 training courses on how to slam dunk a basketball, but I could never do it.
Practise will make you better, not so sure about the psycological placebo of a days skills course.

but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more

only if you can video yourself whilst doing it, review the video while still out there, recognise the faults in your riding, be honest enough to admit to them, know how to correct them and advise yourself on applying them.

It's easier to just ride with a skills coach once in a while.

Without teaching you may just be reinforcing bad habits and positioning if you "just go out and ride"

taxi25 - Member

Not so sure about skills courses, but apart from confidence boosting, what exactly do you learn ??? Aidan above says cornering, but thats body position, weighting etc. with practise that just comes ( doesn't it ? )

No, not neccesarily... What happened with me was that with practice I got really good at cornering wrong. Practice sometimes just hones and cements the bad habits.

I could go on a 100 training courses on how to slam dunk a basketball, but I could never do it.

I really hope you are not claiming that as any form of logic to support your arguement. It isn't and it doesn't.

life is about choices. i could drive a car before i ws old enough (mis spent youth ) but needed instruction to do it correctly. its about how/why you learn and what aspirations you have.
i have bmx coaching 🙂

Perhaps skills courses can give you too much confidence in your ability, only to all end in tears soon after....

Any coaches interested in spending an afternoon up Gisburn/Lee Quarry, and being analysed where their technique might need working?

See it as a free gift from all those people who you've coached yourselves 🙂

if im up that way yea. if not come down to me 🙂

@Jedi - yup no probs. Sounds fun 🙂

Don't worry, I'm not thinking about changing careers into coaching... I like clicking buttons on those computery thingys too much.

sweet.
i have spent years trying to get better. thats why i get bmx coaching. i teach atkins mtb and he does the same for me at bmx. as he knows my learning style and vice versa.
i had coaching for triathlon etc...

I dont think skills courses are a bad thing and it is a matter of personal choice if you want to go on one or not.
It must be a nice way of making a living if you have the ability.

Personally i have improved no end by following the better riders in our club but my biggest improvement camefrom riding all winter in the mud and ice

This is the sort of thread that really depresses me

the whole tone is wrong. Fair enough you make think coaching is a silly idea, but so what. Its not like skills coaching is ruining your day out is it. Its not like skills coaching shuts your local trails or causes extra punctures

I will probably do a skills course at some point, I fit the box of a bit over weight and with a 5" bike for trails I can ride just as well on a 3" hard tail, so why not.

But when I was younger and thinner I use to climb. Ok I wasn't great but I was in the game and had mates who were good.Thats talking in code. I lead loads of E3s and a few E4s and even an E5 in North Wales in the 1990s. I had mates who were cruising E5 and E6. I did the odd route with some one who'd put up E7s. I did the whole university climbing club bit. I done loads of learning from my mates who were better than me

After all this is I went with a bunch of colleagues on an outdoor pursuits course with some colleagues. The instrutor realised I was a climber and spent the day teaching me stuff about rope work. I was just dump founded that there was so much I didn't know and didn't even realise I didn't know.

So I'm convinced that structured tuition has its place for almost everyone in outdoor pursuits.

I don't mind if you don't agree thats fine. Just don't start a thread whinging about it because its really pritty harmless isn't it?

I guess I may be about to become fashionable for the first time then because I'm booked on in august
Why?
Because I've been riding with lots of people better than me for last two years now, I've learned alot and improved but I sometimes feel it's a fluke, and I'm struggling to get rid of bad habits I know I have that just feel natural now I just need someone to inspire some confidence in me, and I think it's a small price to pay if it helps me enjoy my riding more, I don't want to go faster, higher or more gnarr, (that would be a nice side effect) I just want to have more fun doing what I like doing and I think a skills course will help with my mental state right now

If you're happy not riding as well as you can I wouldn't worry about it.
If you'd like to ride well, smoothly, confidently, do things that scare you, fall off less then they seem like a great idea to me.
Why are they popular now? I don't think it's fashion tbh. I think the bike skills profession has worked out how to teach people the various techniques and also lots of us have bought fs and realised it doesn't make us better riders and maybe it would be worth learning how to ride it so the £2k+ we've spent doesn't seem like a waste.
I've done a few days training with Cycleactive and it changed my riding beyond expectation. I can do stuff I've not been able to do for 20+ years e.g. drops, bunnyhops on flats. I love the sense of achievement that comes from that. I also fall off less which after 2 broken shoulders a few years ago means there's no debate of the worth of a bit of training...

If you'd like to ride well, smoothly, confidently, do things that scare you, fall off less then they seem like a great idea to me.

Can you not do these without going on a course? 😕

I think the golfing analogy is flawed because it comes to the wrong conclusion. In comparison to our European and US cousins, Brits in general have very low appetites for coaching and training. Yes, people have lessons to start with and then seem happy to settle into mediocrity. When this fails they think that more expensive kit is the solution - this is the correct analogy with golf not the idea that people use pros for lessons a lot. They don't. Ditto cycling, tennis, skiing etc. Lots of kit but flawed basic techniques limit potential.

Its seems a cultural thing because the French love their courses and spend far more time on learning technique (et la philosophie du spprt!) than kit. But ski resorts are full of well meaning brits pottering down red runs and then stumbling down blacks and off piste with their self taught technique. For all the improvements in golf equipment the average handicap has got worse not better, ditto tennis.

So I cant see what is wrong with learning the correct technique for mtb - why waste 000s of £s on a fancy bike if you cant use it properly. Save the money on the bike and spend it on learning the correct technique, surely?