[Closed] Has anyone ever actually had a disc brake wheel come out of a QR fork?

It's never come out on my disc CX bike but it has worked itself loose several times. Have to make sure it's done up super tight.

I'd rather have a closed drop out like Cotic do for piece of mind but it's not worth changing the bike as I love everything else about it.

Never, not in 10 years of MTBing and 4 years of CX discing.

No and my cx has a reasonably hard life and never had any problems. I have had a qr come loose on the rear end of a mtb at BPW. Fortunately it was the wife's so I was ok, swapped to Shimano qr and greased the qr rod / axle never had an issue since

Not had any come out, but had a few shift on Konas equipped with steel forks and cheap qr's, a change to Shimano sorted them out. Also had my own shift on a steel fork with a Hope qr under extremely heavy braking on tarmac, so just for the hell of it, tapped the hubs, and modded some Hope qr end caps in the lathe, and went bolt-in. A decent quality qr will, in all honesty, probably be perfectly sufficient for most eventualities, but we all want to believe we need bigger/better/faster/more 🙂

Was there not a huge court case over a serious injury cause by a front wheel coming out? Iirc it resulted in the addition of lawyer tabs.

I'm pretty sure lawyer tabs were pre disk brakes and were to be a feature on account of Joe public not being trusted to use a qr correctly, ie do it up tightly.

I've never had one come loose unintentionally

Use Halo Hex Key Skewers, instant bolt through!

I followed the case in court and wrote it up here.

http://spoomplim.blogspot.co.uk/

Some stuff I wrote ages ago about it:

http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/technical-info/disc-brake-safety-issues/

I haven't had a QR come loose since I first fitted discs, I have seen other people's come loose though.

Always tighten it up as tight as ****. Use Shimano QR skewers, particularly at the front (where the position of the brake will lift the wheel out if you're braking hard).

Lawyer tabs will stop the wheel rattling out if your QR comes loose, but braking forces will tear through them without too much fuss.

Interesting link Stoner and a good read..

Summary, QR's are Ok especially when fitted with a nyloc style nut and checked before each ride... IANAL...

Wonder of the QR nuts with the small serrations that bite into the form remedy any problems.

Use Halo Hex Key Skewers, instant bolt through!

I've always thought that you'd be able to get more clamping force with a decent QR than those. They're obviously nothing like a bolt through, they're the equivalent of having a QR where you never do the cam up, just wind them up!

I had problems with a Kona too, steel forked Dew.
Fixed it with some better skewers and tightening them more than should be required.

I tried halo hex key skewers and one sheared after around 6 months of use. Seemed to be a not uncommon issue at the time.

Im having the exact same problem on my mountain bike with a rigid fork. My skewer does not loosen but moves when braking. From all the various topics i have read suggest the following.

Shimano skewers. They are all enclosed cam. The clamping is very good.

Another tip i read was mix very fine sand or glass with nail varnish and paint the drop outs. This should give extra clamping ability on the rough surface.

I have ordered shimano skewers and will see how it goes.

Tge enclosed cam skewers are much better then the later open cam types which are cheaper to produce

Nope, never. Always used Shimano skewers, after reading that their internal cam design was less susceptible to the problem than the external cams of trendier makes.

Never even had one go slack.
Use proper QR's not silly external cam ones.
Tullio got that one right.

There is at least the one case of Russ Pinder where there the front wheel has come out and very serious debilitating injuries occured. Russ is a highly competent person and if it happened to him it could happen to anybody else.

So I personally would look for a fork with 12mm thru axle. Not only does effectively eliminate any worries of wheel ejection but it appears to be the general standard that CX/disk road bikes are headed so you will be future proofed.

early on with disk cx stylee had a warning tinkling noise from front disk a couple of times and found wheel had shifted in fork very slightly - went to doing up QR much tighter than ever done with rim brakes and checking before each ride - now have swiss(?) ratchet qr's - will go thru axle on next bike

I was going to mention Russ. You have to have been here since it was all fields to remember though.

I use steel DT RWS skewers which are frankly as good as bolt through. The end of a qr axle has more surface area in contact with the dropout that a thru axle. With the right skewer holding it all together it is a perfectly adequate system.

Having said that, if enclosed thru axles already existed and somebody invented the open ended qr, would it catch on? Probably not. Starting afresh, thru axles are definitely stiffer and more secure, but a decent well adjusted qr is absolutely fine.

I had the rear skewer rattle loose on my CX bike. Wheel came out and jammed up/forward into the rear triangle. Normal, basic, black Shimano skewer

I've never even had one come loose, even external cam ones.
But then all mine have nyloc features and never get particularly old before they get replaced (i get bored). And almost all are shimano. Think i only have three or four sets that aren't.

Someone the other day mentioned closing the skewer over the caliper, and altering the closure angle by adjusting the locknut.

Both of which tell me that even on here people don't understand how QRs work.

Not surprised some have them coming loose.

There is at least the one case of Russ Pinder where there the front wheel has come out and very serious debilitating injuries occured. Russ is a highly competent person and if it happened to him it could happen to anybody else.

the court case I attended and wrote up (link above) was Russ's case. It wasn't concluded at the case what the complete causal path of the wheel ejection was though.

Everyone blames the QR but IME it isn't the QR but the area on the fork it clamps onto, if that is smooth then the QR can come loose under very heavy breaking, but if the area it clamps onto is correct i.e. rough enough, then you'll be fine.

I've ridden loads of bikes with QRs and disc wheels and it's only been an issue on one, which is now resolved.

Afraid IMO Russ's accident is most likley due to human error.

IME it isn't the QR but the area on the fork it clamps onto, if that is smooth then the QR can come loose under very heavy breaking, but if the area it clamps onto is correct i.e. rough enough, then you'll be fine.

Read my link - it's the serrations on the hub biting into the dropout that secure the hub, and it's the serrations on the QR biting into the dropout that secure the QR. Basically, good steel serrations on both are important. The dropout's function is to be softer to allow the serrations to bite.

I've had one come slightly loose and move in the dropout.

It was in some old 700c Kona P2 disc forks (before they adjusted the dropout angle).

Afraid IMO Russ's accident is most likley due to human error.

Well he said his QR was done up and that is proof enough for me. Ok, I'm not 100% objective on this know him a bit, although only on a geeky internet chat basis and I haven't kept in touch.

What is clear is that it is a relatively complicated retention interface which is subjected to huge forces from disk brakes. To be properly secured not only does the skewer need to be sufficiently tight but the serrations on the hub need to bite into the dropout, so the dropout needs to be softer than the material of the hub, but not so soft that the serrations could drag through the material. It is also conceivable that the QR can work loose over the course of a ride due to the huge forces involved. If there is a fault or human error somewhere then the system is susceptible to failing dangerous.

With all this the risk may well be manageable if user is careful, checks his hub serrations have not worn flat etc, but when buying a new bike I say why not go with the new system and just eliminate the risk entirely. It is far, far, better to eliminate a risk rather than manage it.

Even if you assume that the accident occurred due to human error then who is to say that you, I or anybody else can't make a similar human error. No human is completely infallible, and as I previously mentioned Russ is a highly competent person.

Thanks all for the replies - it reflects my own experiences on my rigid MTB. I'm pretty sure I'll go with the QR fork since it's part of a frameset I've had my eye on for a while (it's all about the paintjob!). I think I'll go with the DT Swiss RWS skewer as I've found them to be very secure. Had a terrible experience with a halo skewer - the bolt head snapped off despite me tightening the skewer to the recommended torque.

Had a terrible experience with a halo skewer - the bolt head snapped off despite me tightening the skewer to the recommended torque.

similar though not sure if an actual halo brand or just a similar design - popped when tightening with torque wrench - like a bullet from a gun

bencooper I completely agree with what you say.

when buying a new bike I say why not go with the new system and just eliminate the risk entirely.

Because it comes at a price, in that in the CX world there is currently no standard and it reduces your option of new bikes and wheels.

Back in the day (1999 iirc), I had a set of Pace RC36 EVO 2 forks, with a Hope Ti QR and some of the first Hope C2 disks on my bike.

Despite the fork having flat drop outs with no lawyer tab, and the springy QRs, I never had a problem when rattling down trails or heavy braking on road.

Having said that, I'd probably not ridethe same combination again. Daft I know, but with the introduction of technically superior fastenings there is no point.

in 36 years of all kinds of cycling, i have never had a wheel come out of a fork.

Afraid IMO Russ's accident is most likley due to human error.

I don't think so.

I had a set of the same QRs Russ was using. Had rear wheel fall out of a SC Superlight and front wheel come completely undone on a Pace rigid fork (luckily on road). Mechanically a QR and open dropout are a bad combination with disc brakes. Good design and materials remove most of the risk but a thru axle of some kind actually eliminates it (my rockshox rev bolt thru came loose on Saturday but was fine)

With the gazillions of QR forks around since disks came along it's a genuine wonder we can still cycle round our favourite trails without navigating through all the broken bikes and people.

OP - if you reckon you'll enjoy a stiffer fork/axle then by all means specify a through axle. Otherwise just ride with a QR and learn not too worry.

Ever since that Russ Pinder accident I've been uneasy with discs and QR - I still have a couple of QR forks but I'd never buy one now. My be overkill but that's fine by me; if I'm going to get battered while biking I'd like it to be my fault

If someone made some sort of cap that sat round the wider part of a QR dropout and clipped together to hold it on, I'd have a couple of sets tomorrow

TBH, no matter how tight Pinder did the syncros skewers up, that type are pretty crap anyway. Pretty much the worst type of externals cams you could get.

6 months use and they were (usually) fit for the bin.

If they were of the plastic bush generation, they were even worse.

yes, more than once has my front wheel tried to escape the QR (on the mtb not CX)

Pilot error though, I have a gimp hand and can't tighten QRs properly. Now I give them a good kick at the start of the first descent, seems to have solved the problem. Have never managed to sort a QR seatpost to stay shut however.

Having said that, if enclosed thru axles already existed and somebody invented the open ended qr, would it catch on? Probably not. Starting afresh, thru axles are definitely stiffer and more secure, but a decent well adjusted qr is absolutely fine.

Yes.
Around the time Russ had his accident, we had similar.

A friend of mine had RS Psylo for/Hope QR/Shimano hub. He was 18+stone, 203 rotor on Hope 4-pot brakes, travelling at spinning out speed - so 30mph(+/-) - on a hill track.

The front wheel came out the dropouts at high speed, braking hard moment.

The wheel came out so fast that the fork legs hit floor, and his (new) gloves had damage to the knuckles, where he was still holding the bars. The dropouts/bottom of forks was ground away by impact(s) and so we could not conclusively see what had happened fully - one dropout partially remained, and the 'tab' that held the wheel in was missing - and was 'sheared' not 'ground', but again, no reliable conclusions could be gained.

Cue serious injury, halfway up Helvellyn, miracles and co-incidences and an amazing rescue and hospital. I was told on the hillside he would not live.

He woke up a fortnight later. 6 months in rehab unit for brain injury. 10 months until back in his home alone. 16 months from accident ran London Marathon for the Glenridding MRT. He still bears the physical scars and memory issues, but its 95% back to how he was.

I have had no issues with shimano QRs in ~25 years of using them, other brands may differ in weight and operation but shimano are about the best for staying closed IME...

I can still see some further "standardisation" on the horizon for disc braked CX/Gravel/Road bikes/forks, 15mm vs QR (vs something else?) and Flat vs Post mount... They're going to piss us a about a bit more yet, it's almost certain.

Having jumped on the bandwagon with a QR/PM frameset, I can't help thinking I might have adopted a tad too early...
But it works and I am not yet dead from QR-disc brake related wheel ejection.

Hmmm, that is a grim tale.
I reckon I'll run 140mm rotors with a DT Swiss skewer and won't be tipping the scales beyond 13 stones, still your story is so sickening that it's making me think...

It has made me super careful about QR's being done up tight, and being checked mid ride.

I only use Shimano QR up front. It also made me only buy bolt through since then for myself, being a big lad.

Note also that the older Psylo's - like so many older forks - had minimal retention tabs compared to newer forks. We do also have to wonder that as such a big lad, had he damaged the forks before? Was it done up that day or come loose (we were a long way down the descent)?

On the brightside, we all made BBC's '999' programme and raised a metric sh*t load of cash for MRT.

Someone the other day mentioned closing the skewer over the caliper, and altering the closure angle by adjusting the locknut.
Both of which tell me that even on here people don't understand how QRs work.

That was me, your statement puts you in the camp your lumping me into.