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J-Tech are pushing the Andreani Piston Kit for improving feel of 36s. Has anyone here had that done?
£120 seems expensive but really need to compare it to the £160 cost of a Silverfish service and tune.
I've not run suspension for a good few years, (other than some old 100mm Reba's on a hardtail), so I was expecting great things of the 34's on the Five I bought. First few rides were quite the disappointment. I suspected it was a case of them just needing to bed in, but they never did. The 3 CTD modes merged into one after a few months so they went back to Mojo but even after a rebuild they were still harsh, never quite what I'd expected of an £800 fork.
As a last ditch effort I sent them to TCH Cycleworks, in Liverpool. They are really plush now, more akin to what I was expecting. He did nothing other than re-build them carefully but suspects the original build, (& Mojo's rebuild), were to blame. They are buttery smooth now.
One of the biggest issues with the RS piston is that it has too much flow, the FAST damper upgrade actually flows less through the piston from what I have read. Odd that the Adreani kit does the opposite.
I asked mostly out of interest.
Tom.
Can't remember the exact details but it did envolve fitting larger diameter but the same thickness shims and lighter oil.
How it was explained to me was that the larger shim would open quicker in the initial part of the stroke but the behave in a similar way to the standard shims further into the travel.
He did think about just fitting thinner shims but reconed it would soften up the end part of the stroke which I didn't want.
I maybe recalling it wrong but it improved the fork loads in the initial stroke but didn't seem to change the end part of the stroke.
Which was exactly what I asked for.
Paul is now working with Chris from a new unit in Monmouth.
Any way to contact the crazy buggers?
Lighter oil would alter the damping deep into the stroke as well.
How heavy are you?
85kg.
3 tokens here and 85PSI. I weigh 85kg with kit for reference.
Sag is 20% on the nose.
I find that if I go past 1 month service intervals the fork feels less plus. The nature of the 36 is quite firm though although my set-up accentuates it.
3 tokens here and 85PSI. I weigh 85kg with kit for reference.
Interesting. What bike/travel?
I'm just under your weight running 80psi and one blue spacer.
So we're all roughly the same weight, 81kg here - and two of you are using lighter damping tunes? This surprises me - I'd like to try it. How many of you are using more than 20 percent sag? I'm not sure I could cope with more sag and a lighter damping tune - either a lighter spring and heavier damping - or perhaps marginally more blow off on the high speed damping.
I'm running around 20 percent sag with my PUSH Green spring. I get all but an inch and a half of travel with 20 PSI in the bottom out spring - on BPWs Insufficient Funds.
There was an interesting article in one of the other magazines where Chris tuned the suspension on a writers Mondraker Dune - he set the forks up with a couple of clicks of low speed suspension....and almost closed on the high speed!
So there seems to be a few ways to skin a cat with the 36s, I want to play with some setups so I can understand the fork more - as it's quite different to the FAST Pike I was running - that I got my head around (still better though).
That's interesting - Chris's recommended set up (this was for a Geometron bike originally) was-
2 blue spacers
Fast rebound (14-17 clicks from closed)
HSC and LSC both fully open (maybe a couple of clicks)
I think that might have been for the older 2015 fork...
PUSHes recommendations are - LSC 12 out HSC 14 out rebound 12 out. I've gone to 11 out from closed on Rebound, and 5 out on both LSC and HSC. Although at the minute I can't tell a huge amount of difference in the clicks - the adjusters are more subtle - where as if I dropped the HSC past 5 clicks from fully open on the FAST Pike - it would start wildly blasting through it's travel on the faces of jumps....as if it was a mid speed adjuster.
Chris had me set up my DHX2 very fast, so he does seem to be a fan of fast suspension - I had to tone the settings down when I was using the Pike as his settings simply bucked me off jumps wildly. I have been speeding the shock up incrementally since I got the 36 though, as it seems to have balanced the bike out better in the air.
PUSH only seem to recommend a damper tune if you're lighter or heavier than average, they seem to be quite happy with the standard '18 tune - so I'm now all the more curious.
simons_nicolai-uk - Member
That's interesting - Chris's recommended set up (this was for a Geometron bike originally) was-
2 blue spacers
Fast rebound (14-17 clicks from closed)
HSC and LSC both fully open (maybe a couple of clicks)
That's for the modded 180 fork though... bumper removed, oil volumes changed hugely
Lower oil volumes?
That's for the modded 180 fork though... bumper removed, oil volumes changed hugely
Mine was just a 170: presumably bumper removed. What does he do with oil volumes?
Fork now dropped to 140 on my Helius. Definitely wouldn’t want any Lsc. Can’t imagine adding more hsc would help the harshness (I’ve been running about 18 flicks out)
That's for the modded 180 fork though... bumper removed, oil volumes changed hugely
Mine was just a 170: presumably bumper removed. What does he do with oil volumes?
Fork now dropped to 140 on my Helius. Definitely wouldn’t want any Lsc. Can’t imagine adding more hsc would help the harshness (I’ve been running about 18 flicks out)
Those factoryjackson settings are odd. The HSC and Rebound are similar but I wonder if the LSc on the fork is from open? Chris advice was only to add a few clicks of LSC if feels unsteady in berms. I can’t imagine why you’d add a load of LSC to the RC2
Very similar to his x2 recommendations, I didn’t get on with having very slow LSC - it might be good in big compressions/g outs but couldn’t cope with rough climbs - didn’t track the trail, just bounced off stuff.
My DHX2 settings, he advised me to run the HSC wide open and control travel use with the LSC.
I get the feeling he varies the setups quite wildly depending on the rider. I didn't get on with his settings on the rear tbh - my setup is somewhere between his and the stock settings.
The 2018 damper tune on a 36 is the same as the tune in the 2016/7 one just with the oil (5wt teflon infused) out of the grip damper in it.
There are three tunes - the E49 (the original 2015), the E16 and the E18
What you guys are saying, seems to go against what that article says.
No the E16 and E18 tunes are only for the Fit 4 damper. The RC2 damper has only 2 off the shelf tunes, 2015 and 2016 on.
How close are the Fit 4 and RC2 E16 tunes? Simple job of replicating the E18 tune in the RC2? Have they done that on purpose to keep the RC2 the racers fork?
Totally different damper setups.
The RC2 has IIRC a 4 shim stack, the Fit 4 has around a 8-10 shim stack off the top of my head.
@Simons Nicolai UK - set up is on a G13 and the Fox is a unit Mojo built from parts. HSC is Open, LSC is 2 from Open, Rebound 15 from closed.
Chris gave me the settings and they felt great from the off. Rear now has a coil built to match.
simons_nicolai-uk - MemberMine was just a 170: presumably bumper removed. What does he do with oil volumes?
For my 180 fork it was double oil one side and triple on the other, I think. Can't find the wee note I had of it, was on my old phone
Edit - it was 60ml damper side, 30 ml air side (normally 40/10)
This is quite topical, I was considering how to improve my 2017 36RC2s the other day. They are stiff on the small stuff and track poorly but I still manage to get max travel out of them.
Is there consensus as yet?
Are there even a list of options?
I keep meaning to call a specialist but will they try and sell me what they want or give me the best advice. FWIW I trust Chris porter but he gone. I kind of see the options as follows;
Normal tune with volume spacers; reasonably priced but can it get the performance increase?
FAST tune; just a cart which adds adjustability to a very adjustable fork.
Avalanche; sounds like the business with a new damper but I hear it's like £400? No ta, not ever.
Andreani; £120 odd for a new piston head?
Push; not really sure; the TF site gives FA information. But push has a very good rep and it is cost effective. Tempted.
Other; play with oil weights, pressures and volume spacers myself. Perhaps hire a shockwiz?
I'm going to start with a service with a tune and the MRP negative air spring kit.
If you don't want to go down the Avalanche route (I'm nearly 4 years on an Avalanche Pike and won't consider anything else now, but I'll bite my tongue here 🙂 ), I would definitely consider Push as I also have an old Pushed 34 which I really like, and TFT were great getting it sorted for me.
It does help to speak to someone though, as I've spent loads of time on the phone over the past few years mostly to Craig at Avalanche and the TFT team, but more recently also to Jake Ireland at Sprung getting my Avy stuff serviced, and in all cases their advice was excellent and funnily enough mostly impartial.
You've got a great base fork though so hopefully you can get something sorted out.
Service... plus tune... plus MRP kit is the best part of the coat of the coil.... ahem
My coiled 36 is still more compliant yet more supportive than my coil pike.
Im just interested because people think you can make what I think is a great fork... better.
Service... plus tune... plus MRP kit is the best part of the coat of the coi
Maybe, but as my fork needs a service anyways it's only another 60 quid or so. If I got a coil kit I'd still need the service on the damper.
Plus I like how air rides, I'm not sure I want to go coil.
Just to clarify, this is the MRP part:
https://www.mrpbike.com/shop/#!/FulFill™-Air-Spring-Conversion-for-Fox-36/p/84443343/category=20803113
I'll try and fit it before the service and report back, so I'm only changing one thing at a time.
Edit: crappy link, but you get the idea. Who puts superscript in URLs? Come on MRP....
I've been suffering with harsh 36's for a while. Got a custom negative air spacer fitted which has helped, but sent them to TF for a service and Push tune - will let you know how they go and if they are able to match my Lyrik for small bump compliancy..
Try undoing the top cap, removing the forks and fitting some Marzocchi 350s. Worked for me.
I did try the MRP kit but made little difference even with an extra 10psi in the negative. Some people have had great improvements with MRP though and I did read about air spring tolerance issues so it’s worth trying.
The Marzocchis are ten times better than the 36s ever we’re, I’ll be trying those new Formula 35s next
Still reckoning this is princess and the pea syndrome.
There's someone earlier in the thread, I'm para-phrasing "I went somewhere I don't normally ride, it was rougher and longer than I'm used to, my arms got tired, must be the bike".
Has anyone who is "suffering" actually washed out because they didn't have grip?
Remember people, this is a balancing act between comfort and performance, you can't have you cake and eat is as it were. Suspension is for grip, in order for the wheel to grip it has to track the ground AND you need to be able to load it, go too much on the side of comfort, you can no longer LOAD when you need to and end up not having the grip you thought you were getting by running it "plush".
Formula 35s are amazing. The only reason I stopped using them was due to them catching the head tube on my Evil on full compression. Shame really.
If you were looking to sell them let me know!
I've just got the MRP kit for the 36. Early days, only had a few rides, so by no means conclusive, but still find them harsh and very slow.
Another option is the Andreani kit which I heard from someone makes a difference. Has anyone tried that?
To be hoest, I agree eith Dean - cranked right open my FAST pikes were too soft.
MBR thinks the 2018 36 is comfier than the Lyrik as well...
Just been out for a quick spin on my 36s after TFT serviced them and Push tuned them - amazing. So much better than before, I think I may have finally got Lyrik small bump sensitivity, with RC2 mid store support and tracking.
For the cost of a service and tune definitely give it a try.
I know you won't consider avalanche, but i cant bite my tongue. Sell your forks, buy the cheapest set of yari's you can find / second hand even, it doesn't matter. send them to avalanche pay your £400 and get craig's full treatment and you will have the best set of forks for sub £900. they will blow even a new set of 36's out the water, and make your shock feel like a hardened turd. I'll park that there.
So, added extra bath oil to my coil 2018 36s...I dont know why people are complaining about the damoer. My dads recently serviced Lyrik has LOADS more stiction in it. Its more comfortable and smoother than my coil Pikes as well.
Tge 2018 36 with a coil is simply sublime. It doesnt feel as overdamped as Lyriks either, I really dont think the harshness is damper side.
Personally, I thougt Avy forks felt juat like BOS forks... ie not as good as my current 36 build.
Tom, are you wearing ski gloves ? 😀
nahhhh... cold.... plus crap with smartphones.... heheh
The coil 36s are smoother than Zocchis of yore.
Well just put the forks back on after they went to South Coast Suspension for some TLC. PUSH ACS3 coil conversion fitted along with Racing Brothers Lycan seals. A quick bounce in the workshop reveals almost zero stiction. Just got to wait for the Downs to dry out a bit before I give them a shakedown ride.
I had all of the above harshness issues on my 36 RC2 2016 and tried all the fix’s including the re shim but nothing got rid of the horrible harshness. Eventually I gave TF a go with the PUSH tune and finally the fork started to feel a lot better than it did before especially in the first part of travel on long rough descents.
I think I will eventually go for the PUSH coil conversion as this removes the cause of the issue which is the damper itself from that year just isn’t that good.