Hardtails rule? Critique my options...

I've ridden none of them, and don't like hardtails any more... but I vote for the Pipedream anyway 😀

has a springy steel ride that makes me happy

I've both read (WideOpen review iirc) and heard (mate that owns one) that the Pipedream is lacking in this regard. That might help shorten your shortlist a bit more

Recommend what you have - Rå .410. Might be a bit more trail than xc though.

Steel
Made in a (very well equipped) shed in North Yorkshire.
Niche AF.
Can take a 140mm fork.
Not sure about singlespeedable, but probably an option. Ask.
Rides ace.

https://www.ra-bikes.com/410

On one huntsman and loads of change?

That Ra is lovely- might be a bit out of budget though. Conversely, I am not against an On-one, ive had a lot fo fun on an older gas-pipe Inbred!

Interesting what you say about the Pipedream- I expected it to be the funnest- I'm currently watching the Hardtail Party review, so will see what thay say.

Starling Roost? (although its a mullet)

Starling Roost? In stainless steel too, corrr...

Ha! Within seconds of each other - great minds and all that 🙂

Yeah my Sirius S5 is great fun but springy it is not, think it might actually be stiffer then the alu HT it replaced.

I don’t think many steel bikes have the springy feel they used to have - they’ve all got a bit burlier as mtb has changed since the 90’s for a large part of the market.

I would say I’ve found steel does seem to take out some vibration / harshness that alloy can have - but it’s all very frame specific. I’m comparing a Vitus Sentier 27.5 with a Marino custom hardtail also in 27.5.

Some of your frames quoted don’t really match up - the Bird Forge is more comparable to the Pipedream Moxie rather than the Sirius.

Also you’ll find some of your frames are double butted 4130 but some have some fancier pipes in there. Moxie is 4130 - Forge has main pipes in 853 I think.

Personally I’d rule out the P7 - I don’t think they’re that great these days.

Given your requirements I’d be thinking of going with the Pace. It’s got 853 main tubes, sliding dropouts, rack mounts and decent geometry (and you can run it 29er or mullet).

Not mental slack, but equally not steep. Just check the reach on each size before picking one as they’re quite long.

If you’re made of money I’d go and speak to Curtis though!

I bought a steel hardtail couple of years ago for woods in the south and longer rides much as you are referring to. YOur short list looks very similar to what mine was.
I went for the Switch9er over the Sherpa but built the Swich9er light with 140mm 34's and Hope 26mm rims.
I have no regrets. I did wonder whether it would be too long and slack for the local woods and it does need to be going a little faster than my 27.5" 2015 Scout to find the flow but I do love it for this and its lovely on longer rides.

Glad to see I'm not the only one currently distracted by that damn singlespeed article and a resulting search for a steel hardtail 🙂

Following with interest. I currently have a Norco Torrent A1 - nice enough, but not fully embraced it. Don't know what it is, it just feels a bit 'meh' compared to my previous hardtails, all of which were steel (Souls, a BFe, Explosif, Dialled Love/Hate, 456, various Genesis, etc).

Several of your list were also on my list, to which I'd add:

Ragley Big Wig (although geometry isn't the most modern - not necessarily a bad thing - reductions at CRCWiggle)
Stif Squatch

I love my Moxie singlespeed!

It's a lot less harsh than the alloy 27.5 it replaced, and has a nice balance between monster truck front-end feel and lively BMX at the back. A great do everything (that I want to do) bike!

Production Privée Shan GT.

I've got one.

I love it 😍

Not UK, but ticks all your other boxes.

I love my hello Dave.

It's 160mm fork and super slack so probably isn't exactly what you are after.

But

Cheap
Strong
Rides really well
Looks ace ( many people disagree )
Best technical climbing bike I've ridden (cannondale scalpel with full xtr included)
Comfy for 10h bike packing rides
Fastest hardtail I've ridden ( sample size of 6)

Sonder Signal ST?

Takes a 130mm fork, 29in wheels, boost spacing, internal dropper routing

I really liked mine until i finally got hold of a Carbon Transtion Throttle

Its now hanging up in the garage waiting to be sold (Stealth ad!)

Shand  bahookie

Much loveliness and can be run with hub gears, derailleur or single speed with a very neat EBB

Thanks all so far- I'd looked at, then fogotten the Sonder. I have an older Camino, so generally convinced by the quality of that.

Back in the murky past of 26" I had a DMR Switchback followed by a V2 Cotic Soul, not to menition riding a few 90's chromo frames... Even by the advent of the V2 Soul the frames were getting beefire, but there's still a definite ride quality about steel.

In true STW recommend what you have style I can second the Ragley Big Wig. Mine in lollipop colours is a beautiful mash up with orange Hope parts and a Fox 36 140mm with blue decals. It rides beautifully as well.

Can recommend the Roost, think they're all sold except XLs though

Here's mine, looking very mullety due to my lack of photo skills

Having seen the Bird Forge in the flesh it's bloody lovely and I quite fancy one.... But I think for classic SE woodsy singletrack (thinking Chilterns, South downs etc) then shorter travel and lighter is the way. From that list maybe the newer Solaris or the Pace? Maybe add the Fairlight Holt or if your feeling proper flush that Mason hardtail. Keep the forks to 120mm and nice light set of wheels and perfect.

I really like my P7
Wasn't sure at first after riding a full suss for years but definitely wouldn't be without it.
Can ride everything my full suss could and I don't feel battered after adding some carbon bars and going tubeless.

https://flic.kr/p/2oxGhJQ

As someone said I think the springy steel feel was a thing in the 90s, my Nivacrom Sunn certainly had it. But then again it felt very soft and irresponsive. So steel frames began to get stiffer in all directions and heavier and still weren't particularly responsive. And then tyres and wheels became bigger, pressures went down with tubeless and the primary ride massively improved irrespective of frame material which made the steel thing lose its (fairly limited) appeal anyway. So they are now heavy, expensive and still not that stiff laterally yet not particularly comfy but they do look cool.

My P7 is definitely more compliant and comfier than my mates Crush. Even he noticed when he had a ride on it.
Very similar setups only major difference is the frame.

I have a very similar shortlist for a HT, with similar riding aspirations. I've also got Farlight holt on mine:

Not UK, but defo niche.

I've a Ragley BigWig, it's great for a 'throw it about' kind of bike, but I wouldn't say its especially compliant or comfortable (it was better on 2.6/2.5 tyres, now on 2.3's). Quite short chainstays, great for playfulness, but not so much for flex/comfort.

It's also not ideal as a bike-packing bike. No bosses/mounts, and the main triangle (on mine, a Medium) is too small to fit anything much (eg framebag) other than a water bottle.

Cheap fun. But if I had the money, I'd now be looking at something like the Fairlight Holt.

The BB drop on that RA thing looks absurd. I can see how it would work railing berms and the like but pedalling on rocky, stepped and or rutted ground would be a nightmare

I've a Pipedream Sirius 4G, and would love the newer one as I run a short (100mm) fork anyway. I've read a couple of very good reviews of that (one on Bikepacking.com I think, can't remember the other)

If the RA is out of budget, I'm guessing quite a few of the other suggestions will be also? (Fairlight, Shand, Starling)

Fairlight Holt was my thoughts

Sonder Broken Road. It even has sliding dropouts. A mate has one. I’m always a bit jealous

I wanted to scratch the hard tail itch for ages and really fancied the Solaris max but the BFe max sale they had coupled with allowing cycle to work at the sale price had me sold on it. Only ridden it a handful of times but really like it.

https://flic.kr/p/2oxJ58n

Knowing what an absolute hooligan of a bike an Orange Crush is, I can only think a P7 would be awesome. Some days I struggle to believe it's not got any rear suspension.

I've got a SolarisMax and it does anything and everything I ask of it. I don't miss not having rear suspension and i'm never battered at the end of a ride. It's main use is arguably XC but with a fair bit of nonsense thrown in for good measure. I can imagine that the Solaris will be a great bike.

My riding buddy has a P7 and he loves that too and gets up to the same stuff I do.

I only briefly had a Cotic simple that was too small for me and i passed on realtively promnptly, but ive always had a soft spot for a cotic, doubley so if you can get one with 853 written on it.

@hot_fiat
Spot on description.
The crush is an awesome hardtail. Only reason I ended up with the P7 is due to COVID that was all that was left at Winstanleys.

hardtailonly
Full Member
I’ve a Ragley BigWig, it’s great for a ‘throw it about’ kind of bike, but I wouldn’t say its especially compliant or comfortable (it was better on 2.6/2.5 tyres, now on 2.3’s). Quite short chainstays, great for playfulness, but not so much for flex/comfort.

I've got a BigWig too and intentionally not recommended it here. It's a nice play thing but that's about it, especially as its bloomin' heavy in stock form. Not sure 435mm chainstays are considered short on a hardtail though?

I have a BigWig frame sitting in my Wiggle basket (currently reduced to £330, plus the cheeky £20 postage). Was seeing it as a cheapish way to a steel frame that ticks many of my boxes, but the comments above are stopping me hitting the buy button. Well, not the comments specifically as they're only backing up what I expected the frame to be like: heavyish and not particularly compliant/comfy.

I - personally - can't currently justify something with 853 labels which I'd hope would provide lower weight and more compliance (I know there's more to it that that, but it's a starting point).

I'd agree 435mm chainstays isn't short though. Most of the others mentioned above are even shorter.

Very much agree about the lighter/shorter travel options, I'm local to Chilterns riding, so that's the intended terrain. I do want it to be slack/modern geo enough for pop and have fun on trail centre stuff too though.

I'd forgotten about the Holt- a thing of beauty. What travel fork do they take?

Edit- some of these are probably out of budget, true... But there's nothing like browsing a selection of niche hardtails!

Not sure 435mm chainstays are considered short on a hardtail though?

No, you're right, my mistake. SolarisMax is 444mm, but BigWig is about the same as most other options. I'd just assumed it had short chainstays, as it just feels pretty harsh at the rear!

I wont comment on my opinion of how complient/harsh it is - it's my first hardtail in many, many years so anything was going to feel harsh to my poor back!

For southern singletracking the new Cotic Solaris may be the one to try out first if you're after a mix of great geometry and a bit of spring to the ride. Longer forks mean beefier tubes and stiffer frames so I like the 100-120mm design brief of the Solaris. The geo + sizing looks good and the built-in seat bolt + 31.6mm seat tube might clinch it.

I love SS esp. for the winter and I might be tempted to go rigid too so I'd have something else for that.

the "spring" in steel (from a vertical compliance perspective) was purely due to seatpost diameter. Now seatposts have all got fatter to accomodate droppers, steel is just a heavier material to make frames from.

this is a good bit of research that proves it out.. https://www.cyclingabout.com/why-impossible-steel-frames-more-comfortable-than-aluminium/

👆 Yeah, but skinny tubes look nice, so steel = betterer.

the “spring” in steel (from a vertical compliance perspective) was purely due to seatpost diameter. Now seatposts have all got fatter to accomodate droppers, steel is just a heavier material to make frames from.

this is a good bit of research that proves it out.. https://www.cyclingabout.com/why-impossible-steel-frames-more-comfortable-than-aluminium//blockquote >

You're right about vertical flex, there's not much of it in an average bike frame, a bit in the front end and that's about it. But that article is only looking at seated comfort / vertical flex and much of the flex and comfort we feel (imo) when riding some steel road bikes or MTBs hard is the lateral twist, the spring you feel when you load a bike in corners, hit things at odd angles or sprint or climb in a big gear. Steel frames can still have enough flex to feel good for some rider's tastes if they're not overbuilt for big sus forks or roadie sprinter stiffness.

 

That Ra looks lovely but are the chainstays really 410mm? And it’s a full 29er not a mullet?
I’m still riding the last fast forward I picked up for buttons in covid which has sliding dropouts that go from 424 to 444 I think. With them all the way forward you can’t get much tyre in.
It has a habit of eating drive side dropouts though due to the design (and recently the bolt on brake mount cracked too) so although spares are available I’m always vaguely looking at steel hardtails for when it’s time to replace it… that ra is definitely at or near the top of the “if money no object” pile.
Pink moxie looks ace.
But I think I’m the only person I’ve ever ridden with who’s never owned a cotic so I think that might be the answer.

I saw a Bird Forge in the flesh last weekend at Tweedlove and it was really really nice

Ive just built up a Honzo DL and its so much fun

https://flic.kr/p/2ovkqM2