[Closed] Hardtail- which light but comfy longtravel hardtail?

does it need a good resale value?

Cotic soul

Curtis 🙂

have a look at the Kinesis XC130 and the Decade versa (120mm).

not quite sure how long 'long travel' is, tbh.

Depends how long travel you want Mark. My old Soul was all those things and the new ones take 140mm forks. Gave mine a pasting too and never let me down...

I like my Chumba HX1. I've just changed from a P7, it's definitely lighter and whippier. More comfortable than you's expect from an alu frame too. Done a couple of longish rides on it and had no comfort issues at all.

Cotic soul

I briefly had a large Cotic Soul and found it 'too big' for me. Should I look at a medium (or even..a small?!) one?

I'm 6ft1/33inside- but prefer shorter top tubes of upto23" actual MAX.

Does anyone have a medium Cotic that I could have a quick spin on for fit?

The Stanton Slackline comes in a 18" that's in between a large & a medium Soul.

I was after the same thing, and will be ordering my first steel frame (Cotic Soul) in about 10 minutes .

Whyte 19 Trail Steel.

Just gone from full suss to this, love it, very nimble and capable. Has adjustable dropouts that affect wheelbase and angles too, even running singlespeed if thats your bag. 120mm fork standard which i find is ideal for my riding.

[IMG] [/IMG]

It doesn't matter really though, does it? You'll only have it a week. What we looking at realistically? One quick run round Calderdale?

I am not sure which bike was next in the sweepstake http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/who-fancies-a-horas-next-bike-sweepstake/

How tall are you?

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chumba-HX1-26er-hard-tail-frame-Small-Cove-Orange-/160686923378?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2569afde72 ]Chumba HX1?[/url]

imo the whole ribbing hora about his bike is a bit done to death now?

Si thats too stiff for me. If it was stiffness that I was after I'd buy a Chameleon again. Thanks tho.

I'd love a ti frame but not the Ti price though 😳

Si thats too stiff for me. If it was stiffness that I was after I'd buy a Chameleon again. Thanks tho.

Have you ridden one? If not, that's a stupid thing to say.

I have one and was very surprised (and pleased) at how compliant and comfortable it is.

I'd be looking at the Slackline, in fact i'm seriously thinking about getting rid of my blue pig for one. Fancy a blue pig?

Charge Duster?

Whippy = short top tube, short stays, tight* H/A, good standover and low(ish) BB (forget longer forks and stems too)
Light = not steel
Comfy = MTFU (stand up!)
springy = down to the rider, a stiffer rear end will actually be more "springy" with the input of a decent rider
not solid rear = MTFU (choose good lines, go faster, get off the brake and use your legs to absorb rough terrain and you won't feel so beat up)

*not overly steep but def not overly slack

not what you wanted to hear but it's the truth.

cotic soul here too, somewhat predictably.

Hora....if your referring to the Whyte above its STEEL not Ti 🙂

Slackline weighs circa 5.6lb?

Springy? I rode a Sanderson Life and that was definitely comfy/springy. I keep coming back to this- but thinking of a smaller size.

Pity you're not a bit shorter. I'm selling on my Ti Ragley - but it's in short-arse size.

carbon 456? light & comfy, not sure I've ridden a whippy hardtail since the old skinny steel days

carbon 456 Looks are a bit shakey but is meant to be nice.

Cotic Soul. Mine was awesome round Afan on Monday. GW doesn't seem to understand that a Cotic Soul can be built up plenty light enough, a reasonably slack head angle is a good thing for most riders and you can stand up loads yet still benefit from frame compliance (and big tyres) because the kickback through the pedals is less.

Despite his boring and boorish manner this is true:

"...a stiffer rear end will actually be more "springy" with the input of a decent rider... ...choose good lines, go faster, get off the brake and use your legs to absorb rough terrain and you won't feel so beat up..."

But a more compliant rear end will be yet more springy with that same rider.

I'd like to have a spin on a C456- had a quick one in the carpark on PeterPoddys but he didn't throw it down Cavedale too quickly 😉

So shortlist

Small or medium Soul
Sanderson Life (16")
C456
Whyte's only do a full bike and I'm really after frame only sadly.

hora - I'll have a medium c456 for sale soon - really good nick (I bought it new and change frames more regularly than you're reputed to). I'm the same height inside leg as you. mail in profile if you're interested.

YGM

The C456 looks great too - long top tube though. I ride a medium Soul which is a great fit at 5'10" but I find the medium 456 a bit too long so I'd have gone for a small one of them.

Moots YBB?

GW doesn't seem to understand that a Cotic Soul can be built up plenty light enough

Druidh, which Ragley and how much?

20" Voodoo D-jab Ti frame - £450 to you.

My current rockhopper frame is a pretty light 3.3lb, the new soul looks like 4.3lb giving a 24lb bike, so still reasonably light once all the bits are swapped across.

I had a cotic soul in size small, I like you like my bikes on the small side but the soul was just a little small tbh.
I am 5/11 with a 31 inside leg so I think you should look at a medium.
Great bike the soul, but I now have a Sovereign 😆

To a fair extent, it depends what you plan to do with it and how heavy you are. My choice is a Dialled Alpine, still comfy, rewards a confident rider with great handling and some attitude. I've ridden both in real hills and found the Cotic was too flexy for rocky terrain. And I'm only 12 stone.

oh, yeah, coz it's STW and you MUST all have a steel frame from either Cy or Brant to harp on about

Nah, my DMR Trailstar rocks!

I've got a medium Soul if you want ago. I'm in Leicester if thats any good to you?

or alternately:

coz it's STW and you MUST NOT have a steel frame from either Cy or Brant so you can harp on about it

😉

Ohh, those Stanton Slakclines look nice.
Handbuilt they say...where? In the UK?

Hx1s are a lot more comfortable than you'd think. The mk1 version was stiff and a bit trying after a couple of hours, the new version is loads more compliant even on a "frame transfer" build.

In terms of comfort and springiness there's very little difference between that and my Scion for a similar build.

Ohh, those Stanton Slakclines look nice.
Handbuilt they say...where? In the UK?

Handbuilt means they put the full builds together in the UK. The frames are typical taiwanese built.

Ohh, those Stanton Slakclines look nice.

aren't all bikes handbuilt? i'd be surprised if there's a robotic production line for them anywhere..

Hora is the opposite end of the size spectrum to me but I went for a new 725 small Dialled PA over a small Soul. This was after much borrowing of a friends pre CEN Soul (and also a new P7 and this was to replace an InBred running 130 forks) Either of these options seems to be everything you want.

To me the price difference wasn't justified at the time and since buying the PA I've not at all wished I'd spent the extra with Cy.

Certainly in the smaller size I prefer the PA's slightly shorter feel - just feels slightly more jumpy compared to the ground hugging missile feel of the Soul. The Soul looks nicer (the dropouts in particular), will be a smidge lighter and possibly a smidge more compliant at the rear (though that's really hard to tell).

I don't think Mike was going to sell Hora any more frames, due to him (Hora) being a dick.

Fathomer, thanks but I'm t'up north 🙂

Tasso. I'm by no means a good rider but I will ride most stuff. I didn't get on with the PA at all, similar with the Alpine but I really really got on with a medium Chameleon and a 16" 456. The killer is the beating the rear of the Chameleon gave my back over longer riders. Took days to recover from feeling tired as well 🙁

I don't think Mike was going to sell Hora any more frames, due to him (Hora) being a dick.

RichC you are doing what Elfin used to do; following someone around posting drivel and personal attacks that are tedious and tiring. If you need help or counselling I could look up some numbers for you.

Light = not steel

I know there are light steel bikes, but 3.5lb still nowhere near as light as XC frames made from other materials and how does strength/weight/stiffness compare?

Oh well, if you should be down this way at any point the offer stands!

RichC you are doing what Elfin used to do; following someone around posting drivel and personal attacks that are tedious and tiring. If you need help or counselling I could look up some numbers for you.

Yeah, yeah, you sold the new frame yet? or are you waiting for it to arrive this time?

Custom Build Burls

I like these threads, as soon as they start I list / predict 2 posters and their recommendations and see if / how long they take to pop up.

Not quite 2 pages on this one.

Progressive Si you make it too easy : )

I don't think Hora's a dick. He's just a very confused and unusual boy when it comes to bikes.

Anyhow, he's tried the Prince Albert and Alpine and they weren't for him, so it's not a question of me not selling him anything, I have nothing for him to buy.

Stab in the dark here, is Chocolatefoot still alive?

couldn't you just ride a chamelion but run the tyre pressure 2psi lower? that'll take out far more trail impacts than any give in the frame..

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

Lower pressure bigger tyres definitely reduce impacts better than any frame compliance can. However frame compliance (or damped suspension) removes high frequency low amplitude trail buzz in a way that tyre compliance doesn't.

I already run lower psi's- probably around 30-35psi max and snakebite very rarely. I've always done this.

Yes I see where you are coming from to a degree. However ontop of psi differences there is aslo a degree of flex etc etc built into a rear triangle or over-built to eliminate that is also a factor?

Note the question mark (Ie. Im unsure and seeking more info).

marin rocky ridge. like a chameleon but a bit more give. despite not wanting to like it (cos its a marin) i got on really well with it.

I have no idea whether my opinion is worth anything or not in view of my recent indecisive short-term test piloting 😆 but Hora, take a look at the discounted Kona Fivo O frames on CRC.

Due to unforeseen circumstances (no really - an unfortunate warranty-related issue with my 3 week old Commencal 😥 ) I've had to take advantage of CRCs cheap Kona frames and built up a [url= http://s1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa441/mamadirt/Tiny%20Kona%20Fivo-O/ ]tiny Five O[/url] as a stopgap bike . . . but just when you think you've tried everything and know exactly what the next build will ride like even before it's built, the little Five O has turned all that completely on its head.

It's light (OK so my build weighs 28lbs but I haven't had a bike that light in years), super-low, confidence-inspiring b/b height even with 140mm forks, and what has surprised me the most for an alu frame - it's really really comfy. I have no idea whether that's down to the long rear end (17" 😯 ) or the bolt-on dropouts but I've a feeling that even when my f/s bike's sorted I may find this one difficult to part with. Mine is the 2008 model (only 14"ers left now) but I think that they still have stock of the 2009 and 2010 models in bigger sizes. Gotta be worth a try at those prices I reckon.

30-35 psi isn't super-low - try tubeless with 25psi and see how you get on.

Personally, I'd be inclined to try and get a demo on a Slackline (it's only 1 extra pound, you'll be fine pedalling it round all day) and maybe a C456.

I had a hardtail debacle at the start of the year:
- had a medium Chameleon - beautiful frame, but far too stiff
- swapped out for a medium Soul - again, really nice, but realised I just didn't enjoy riding hardtails as much as full sus.
- replaced the Soul and my 5.5 with a Tazer set to 3.5". Perfect - no more hardtails for me 🙂

EDIT: ^^^ mamadirt, you've bought another new one?!? Did you ever sell that Intense BMX? 😳

Mamadirt....I also got a cheap Kona frame from CRC, a Caldera. It's aluminium but I'm gobsmacked at how comfortable it is, accepted wisdom says it should be a harsh ride but with narrow 27.2mm seat tubing and gorgeous slender seat stays and chain stays it is great fun to ride. Not a fashionable brand at the moment but they still seem to have 'it' when it comes to hardtail geometry.

couldn't you just ride a chamelion but run the tyre pressure 2psi lower? that'll take out far more trail impacts than any give in the frame..

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

+1

Lower pressure bigger tyres definitely reduce impacts better than any frame compliance can. However frame compliance (or damped suspension) removes high frequency low amplitude trail buzz in a way that tyre compliance doesn't.

Care to back that up? I'm not convinced as there is so little difference in damping between metals i.e. they are all useless. I'd hazard a guess that aluminium is actually marginally better at damping than steel on a purely material basis.

Yes Sam, the BMX sold. Contrary to popular belief I do really have just the one bike - it's just that normally they don't stay long 😳 . Tazers do indeed rock!

I'm a long-term Kona fan, Deviant, so it would've been rude not to take advantage of those prices. I ran a little Roast (and later a Chute) as a do-it-all bike several years ago (before I got into all this frame-swapping malarky) but I have to say that the Five-O is a waaay more compliant ride.

Kinesi XC130 - as light as a carbon 456 and its Ally and cheaper too.
Sweet ride, Im loving mine, if your in Leeds pop in and try it

+1 for what GW said earlier.

Brought an aluminium mmmbop frame as a stop gap / experiment a while ago when they were going stupid cheap. Had a bit of a shaky start but it's now the bike I ride the most and really enjoy.

Whippy - Not too sure what that means. Run it mostly with forks at 120 which steepens it up a bit from quoted figures and lowers the BB. Feels good to me.

Light - the frame is under 4 pounds. Got what for me is a sensible trail build and without trying to be light the the bike is around 25 pounds. Could easily lose a pound or two off that though by splashing a bit of cash.

Comfy - Didn't feel that comfy coming off an FS, but once I stopped being lazy and started riding it properly it felt great.

springy = down to the rider, a stiffer rear end will actually be more "springy" with the input of a decent rider
not solid rear = MTFU (choose good lines, go faster, get off the brake and use your legs to absorb rough terrain and you won't feel so beat up)

He speaks the truth. It's more effort to ride but very rewarding when I get it right (which admittedly is still not as often as I'd like!) It can however be quite punishing if I get it wrong.

I can see that it wouldn't be everyones cup of tea but I'm loving it.

Still have one of the first Cotics running with a 120mm fork (max I feel as otherwise seat angle too slack), great bike but not as fast over any form of lumpy trails especially when pedaling, as my short travel (85mm) FS (same forks similar angles)

OP, if you want comfy and capable, I'd get something with good geometry and 120mm forks that are as stiff as poss (bolted, and tapered ideally), some stiff wheels with wide rims + big UST tyres and a frame that's compact and fits well. A ti post would finish it off nicely and make more difference than the frame to seated comfort. There's loads of options in steel. Bigger forks make what you're after a bit tricky -

However frame compliance (or damped suspension) removes high frequency low amplitude trail buzz in a way that tyre compliance doesn't.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that either, from the pov that 'frame compliance' is mostly twisting flex and seatpost flex. That flex comes from low frequency / hiher amplitude stuff, ie cornering hard over roots, slightly off-center landings etc. It adds comfort. It can add, as well as reduce control. When you really stress a frame vertically - ie use the fork as a lever - there's movement, but not a lot and it takes a lot of force to do it. Small fast bumps are reduced by the bike as a system, no one part is fully responsible. Most of it goes into fork and tyres, some into seatpost and a tiny amount in frame flex.

Comfy frame = flexy frame in general. No bad thing, but 'vertical compliance' has to be one of the most waffled-on subjects imo. Steel frames usually flex more than Al frames, in every direction. They twist a lot more than they move vertically - they're triangles afterall. imo that twist is not a good thing if you want to get the best out of a long fork and you ride hard, it's nice to a point and then the rear can't follow the front and stay on line and you realise FS is a better bet.. never mind all the pitch and dive that LT HTs have. They're fun, but only to a point.

catvet - Member
Still have one of the first Cotics running with a 120mm fork (max I feel as otherwise seat angle too slack)

Seat angle? Unless it is already on the limit, just slide your saddle forwards

I had a similar thread a short while back, now enjoying my Sanderson Life.

I'm a complete numpty when it comes to angles and geometry and a totally unskilled rider, so probably not the best to be recommending frames. Having said that, I really like my Pipedream Sirius for general riding around on and off road. I ride mine rigid but it'll handle 90-130mm forks.

Weight's a funny thing and if 5 1/2 pounds is considered heavy, then the Sirius isn't a lightweight for an 853 frame (although it feels fine to me). I think that the quoted weight is around 5 1/2 for a large (19.5") frame, but there's a slightly lighter Scion that comes with standard, rather than sliding, dropouts.

I like this quote from Sheldon:

Short chainstays give a harsh ride for the same reason that you bounce more in the back of a bus than in the middle...if you're right on top of the wheel, all of the jolt goes straight up.

I had not considered that.

FWIW, my Alu Boardman HT is really not desperately stiff. It's the frame design, not just the metal that does this

SV I'd be interested to hear your view on Soul v Life.

Mark, track someone down who bought a Curtis on a whim and see if they want to part with it. Think its a different tubeset to the Freeride (which sounds like you might want) but had a spin around the street and lanes near me tonight on the S1 and whippy/springy is one thing the comes to mind! Lovely little thing it is...

Loads of niche suggestions here, but how about a steel framed Genesis Latitude/Altitude/ Alpitude? Reynolds 853 tubing rides just as well on these bikes as it does with other badges on it and often at a better price.

Orange P7

Orange P7

Light, nippy and springy.

You've recommended a bike that does none of them.