[Closed] Hampshire Countryside Access Forum

By way of introduction, my name is Andy Whincup. I’ve lived up and down the country over the years and have been able to call Staffordshire, Glasgow and County Durham my riding backyard at one time or another. I’ve been based in Winchester for about ten years. I qualified as a BC level 2 mountain bike leader last year and, amongst other things, run a guiding company based out of Winchester. In terms of riding, at the risk of sounding like a cop out, I’m probably best described as a trail rider: I like getting out on the bike somewhere nice where the riding is interesting.

[b]New Rights of Way website[/b]

[url= https://row.hants.gov.uk/ ]https://row.hants.gov.uk/[/url]

Ok, the website isn’t that new but the RoW team have got a new asset management system to run behind it. They never have the resources to fix everything the moment it is reported and have to prioritise jobs based on how urgent they are.

Put simply, the new system means they are going to be more effective at fixing some of the more minor things in the course of sorting the urgent ones. What this means for us is that reported obstructions are more likely to get sorted.

While anyone can view reported problems, you will have to create a log in to actually report new ones.

Andy

Thanks Andy, sounds positive - I have reported an issue on their before, sadly the response was not ideal. A bridleway that is made as difficult to use as possibly (farm waste + 6ft high stingers). Apparently a parish council issue and therefore nothing they could do. That is fine, but it formed part of a Hants county cycle route so daft that they could do nothing to resolve.

between section 18 & 17.

Good luck with your work - very important

Thanks for the representation. Let's see what can be done, but to be honest I've never come across any issues except one and that's where a farmer has inaccurately classified the bridleway, that runs through one of his fields, as a footpath (his own signs) and placed them all over the entry and exit and route through. Glad to see the local horse riders and folks like me know what the differences are.
Other than that.. no issues.

Link to "our" (the forums thread on Hampshire riding)
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hampshire-riding ]STW Hampshire Riding thread[/url]

I've been asked for some feedback to feed into Portsmouth's new Rights of Way Improvement Plan.

There are four short questions that that would like some responses to.

I've posted them here:
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/portsmouth-rights-of-way-improvement-plan?replies=1#post-8627368 ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/portsmouth-rights-of-way-improvement-plan?replies=1#post-8627368[/url]

Thanks for your help.

I'm a member of the LAF (Local Access Forum - similar thing but covers all open spaces as well as the rights of way network) in Brighton.

It's been very useful as a way of understandign other users views of cyclists (walkers, horse riders, farmers, biologists, archaeologists) of the effect that mtb's have on their interests and to be able to communicate back what mtb riders are looking for and issues they might have.

There's some massive changes to how Councils finance and run their open spaces as they try and save money. A number locally are likely to end up being handed over to trusts to run and then effectively cap their financial liability via grants and making the trusts self funding. There may be significant impact on mtb and other access as a result.

Which is where CAF/LAF comes in - they're statutory bodies that must be consulted on all changes to land access.

Hope it goes well for you!

Hello Andy and well done for getting involved in the Access Forum. Shall look forward to more postings from you.

I'm a Hampshire dweller and in fact it was the HCC offroad route series that inspired me to get out exploring the county. Whilst I'm currently not riding (have become the Lyme disease bore on this forum) I try to get out for little walks and do encounter the odd issue. Have always reported issues with trees down, access blocked etc etc.

Good luck with your appointment. 🙂

Hello Andy,

Thanks for the introduction, looking forward to further updates with interest.

Good luck with the appointment

Thanks Andy, sounds positive - I have reported an issue on their before, sadly the response was not ideal. A bridleway that is made as difficult to use as possibly (farm waste + 6ft high stingers). Apparently a parish council issue and therefore nothing they could do. That is fine, but it formed part of a Hants county cycle route so daft that they could do nothing to resolve.

HANTS.GOV.UK "http://www.hants.gov.uk/rh/cycling/fordingbridge.pdf"

between section 18 & 17.

Tim,

I appreciate the issues. I discovered yesterday that in some areas (and this may be one of them) statutory authorities have handed over responsibility (and money) to Parish councils. Sadly, this may be the truth on the ground. The problem with this approach is that any work done may need to be done by registered contractors which makes it really expensive.

I do know that they prioritise things and that, below emergency, the chances of it happening any time soon are limited. They may also take an "autumn-based approach" to vegetation (ie waiting for it to dies off). However, they will only do things if they keep getting badgered about them, because they are the trails people are using.

I'm aware that might not be much help.

Whilst I'm currently not riding (have become the Lyme disease bore on this forum) I try to get out for little walks and do encounter the odd issue. Have always reported issues with trees down, access blocked etc etc.

I could probably fulfil the same post for scarlet fever after this year, so I feel your pain. Good luck.

I'm a member of the LAF (Local Access Forum - similar thing but covers all open spaces as well as the rights of way network) in Brighton.

Nice to know I'm not alone.

[quote=bikebouy]Link to "our" (the forums thread on Hampshire riding)
STW Hampshire Riding thread

Aye, I've been keeping an eye on it. There's a lot to read through there.

Nice to know I'm not alone.

I'm on our LAF (Monmouthshire). Still trying to work out how much power we have - if any though 🙄

Marko

[i]Still trying to work out how much power we have[/i]

Me too!

We're consulted on lots of things and receive reports on lots of other stuff. there have been choices of the 'should we fix that bit of bridleway or this bit' type of things and there seems a genuine desire by the rangers and ROW officer to make the countryside easy to access - most recently creating 500 new rights of ways by making every Twitten in Brighton and Hove a footpath (yes, I know).

Legally they have to consult but I'm not really sure what powers the LAF has to direct council policy or activity.

Hi Andy,

Firstly I have to say I wish you the best of luck with this as I've worked around bodies, public sector and commercial cross over enough times to know it's tough.

You also have the joys of Hampshire Council, who took four months to respond to my last cycling related query, promised a resolution and a year on still haven't and this is top level discrimination against cycling so no small thing. Hence my wish for your success.

If I can help or you think I can I'm time poor but will always try my best to chip in or use my experience and expertise where I can so feel free to shout.

James

Hi Andy, best of luck and thanks for being proactive.

Can I do a cheeky hijack and remind everyone that the new forest national park are currently reviewing their recreation management strategy in partnership with the other statutory bodies in the new forest. The consultation is currently live and runs until the 13th august. You can respond as an individual or club/ group or both if you wish.

It's a good time to make any representations regarding countryside access in the new forest.

Link

[url= http://www.newforestnpa.gov.uk/futureforest ]Future forest consultation[/url]

Still trying to work out how much power we have

Me too!

So it's not just me then.

Can I do a cheeky hijack

Hijack away big fella. I'll have a look this afternoon.

You also have the joys of Hampshire Council, who took four months to respond to my last cycling related query, promised a resolution and a year on still haven't and this is top level discrimination against cycling so no small thing. Hence my wish for your success.

I've worked in, with and for HCC in various guises over the years so I know (to a certain extent) what I'm getting myself into.

I suspect that, in Hampshire's case it's more a case of ignorance than incompetence than discrimination, but I'm willing to be wrong. It was interesting at the last forum meeting that all of the interest groups were claiming that they were the forgotten ones who were last in the queue.

One of the reasons the forum exists is to, with any luck, deal with the lack of understanding that various departments within the council seem to demonstrate on a regular basis.

Feel free to drop me a note about the specific case and I'll see if there's a workaround that might work better.

I could probably fulfil the same post for scarlet fever after this year, so I feel your pain. Good luck.

Oh no, I wish you well with your recovery. 🙂

Hi Shan

I'm a key member of the QECP Trail Collective and we work closely with HCC to maintain and improve the trail network at Queen Elizabeth Country Park. QECP would make a great hub for mountain biking in the south down national park.

SDNP is one of the worst NP's for promoting and investing in cycling IMO.

Hi Andy,

Am I right to assume your role does not also cover the Isle of Wight?

I'm a key member of the QECP Trail Collective and we work closely with HCC to maintain and improve the trail network at Queen Elizabeth Country Park. QECP would make a great hub for mountain biking in the south down national park.

SDNP is one of the worst NP's for promoting and investing in cycling IMO.

I'm pretty familiar with the trail collective's excellent work. I've been over and dug with you a couple of times and marshalled the Day/Night enduro this year. It does make an excellent hub for mountain biking.

From the engagement I've had with SDNP, they are pretty pro-cycling. They're certainly better than the New Forest and many of the other NPs are not without issues.

Are you in touch with Colin Carre and Alister Linton-Crook? They are both involved with promoting cycling as a means of transport and leisure in the Park and are always looking for ways to work with people. They, as with everyone, are working with the confines of tiny budgets so there is a limit to what the can do. If you want, I can put you in touch with them.

Am I right to assume your role does not also cover the Isle of Wight?

You are entirely correct. The Island has its own LAF [url= https://www.iwight.com/Residents/Rights-of-Way/Public-Rights-of-Way/Local-Access-Forum1 ]Their website is here[/url]. Alec Lawson is the cycling rep.

[b]Countryside access forum website[/b]

For those who are really interested, or merely very bored, here is the web page for the Countryside Access Forum complete with minutes of past meetings.
I haven’t seen the minutes for the June meeting, but if there’s something in the agenda you are really interested in, then I can tell you what happened.

[url= https://www.hants.gov.uk/landplanningandenvironment/countryside/hcaf ]https://www.hants.gov.uk/landplanningandenvironment/countryside/hcaf[/url]

You are entirely correct. The Island has its own LAF Their website is here. Alec Lawson is the cycling rep.

That's great. Thanks SA.

Please don't think that the new forest NPA are in any way not championing cycling. It's just unfortunate here that the access laws that apply to the crown lands are from 1925 and don't give cycling any access. The NPA work hard where they can to promote and enhance the cycling experience it's just that it is very challenging locally and they have other statutory bodies that can veto cycling proposals. I guess it could be fair to say the NPA members views on cycling aren't all positive but the officers of the park authority are doing all they can to drive forward cycling provision in the park. It's a pretty frustrating place to work if cycling is in your remit.

I will say, the best chance yet to get some change is through the consulatation I have mentioned on here.

Please don't think that the new forest NPA are in any way not championing cycling

Point taken. I've always difficult to untangle who is responsible for what in the Forest, it seems more complicated than most NPs. Thus, I may have unfairly maligned the NPA, based on the actions of other parties.

Good luck.

[b]Fly Tipping Strategy[/b]

Hampshire has a new draft fly-tipping strategy out. I haven't read it yet, but it may be useful when it comes to reporting fly-tipping along trails.

[url= http://democracy.hants.gov.uk/documents/s2511/Original%20Fly-Tipping%20Strategy.pdf ]You can find the document here[/url]

[b]HCC budget consultation[/b]
Not strictly mtb related but probably important.

Hampshire County Council are skint. Thus they are consulting on how best to balance their budgets. It may be an exercise in claiming "these cuts are what the voter asked for so don't blame us" but equally, you can bet that those services we rely on to keep paths open will be in the firing line.

[url= https://www.hants.gov.uk/aboutthecouncil/haveyoursay/consultations/balancingthebudget ]The consultation is here[/url]

Shan Andy - have just been reading about byways management in the latest LAF papers and it sounds a great idea. Certainly there's some that could do with repair work but guessing there's no chance of that happening?

Apologies for the radio silence recently: real life has a habit of doing that to you.

We've got our quarterly liaison meeting with MOD and DIO on Wednesday this week, does anyone have anything I should be aware of or that they would like me to take to the meeting?

I am aware of the issues at Longmoor and the excellent advocacy work being done by TAG, but are there other issues on MOD land in the county that need brought to my attention.

Cheers

Andy

have just been reading about byways management in the latest LAF papers and it sounds a great idea. Certainly there's some that could do with repair work but guessing there's no chance of that happening?

Sorry for the slow response on this one.

There was a long discussion about this at the last forum meeting. Essentially, the council's plan is to maintain byways in the state they currently are as far as possible. From a mountain biking point of view there's a delicate balance to be struck between fixing byways that are knackered and neutering the ones that are interesting or fun. Either way, HCC doesn't really have the cash to go upgrading anything much.

There are a lot of BOATs in Hampshire and there are a lot of off-road users who have various impacts on the ground. So they are formulating a plan that allows them to identify the ones that are in danger of deteriorating and putting plans in place to deal with them. I'm working from memory now, but it goes something like this:

There's a traffic light scheme where green is fine, amber is keep an eye on it and red is act.

The actions they are looking at are voluntary restrictions (eg not driving on them in the winter when they are soft and easily damaged), repair work where they are dangerous and, finally Traffic Regulation Orders where they close them because they are too expensive to fix. I paraphrase but that's basically what they are looking at.

As with all these things, the devil is in the detail. They are wondering whether the survey work can be done by volunteers, they are also still trying to decide how prescriptive the guidance needs to be for the surveying.

So there's a certain amount of "watch this space" but the essence is that Highways and ROW departments are looking to be more proactive (rather than waiting for things to break) and more focussed in their responses (so they get the best result for their time and money), which is a good thing.

Sorry, that turned out longer than I expected.

A few thoughts:

- There is inconsistancy in the functionality of the various county council's ROW website maps. One suggestion I would make for Hampshire County Council's [url= http://localviewmaps.hants.gov.uk/LocalViewmaps/Sites/ROWOnline/# ]map[/url], is to make it possible to turn Footpaths, Bridlepaths and BOATs on and off as separate individual layers (like the Wiltshire [url= http://wiltscouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=43d5a86a545046b2b59fd7dd49d89d22 ]map[/url]). This makes it easier for cyclists to see how Bridlepaths might be linked together to make a route, and may make it less likely that cyclists would use Footpaths (which the Council would presumably consider to be desirable).

- Regarding the use of volunteers for reporting, a big potential benefit of getting groups of 4x4 off road drivers, horseriders and cyclists to report issues, is that such volunteers would probably increase the awareness amongst their fellow users of the issues, what needs to be reported, and when it is not appropriate to continue to use a ROW because that will increase the deterioration. In other words, regardless of any cost saving for the Council in using volunteers for reporting problems, by getting the user groups involved they are likely to find that more and more of the users will take ownership of the issues and actively play a role in helping the Council to maintain the ROW, rather than resenting their activity being 'restricted' by the Council and ignoring such imposed restrictions

- The other side of the coin with volunteers, is that they can be difficult to control and monitor. Inevitably some people would let even the tiniest bit of responsibility go to their head and report even the most minor issues and/or use it as an opportunity to be officious to members of the public. I suspect you would need a small tightly run group of trusted reliable volunteers, to whom other members of that user group could report issues (which the volunteers could either relay to the Council or check out for themselves first as they saw fit).

Thank you Shan Andy and that sounds very positive. 🙂

Some good points made by slowster.

Hi Andy,

This all sounds very positive, have you had any dealing with the MoD yet? There are ongoing issues between the MTB Community and MoD in the areas around Farnborough and Aldershot so Caesars Camp, Tunnel Hill, PorridgePot Hill etc.

another Andy

Hi Andy,

This all sounds very positive, have you had any dealing with the MoD yet? There are ongoing issues between the MTB Community and MoD in the areas around Farnborough and Aldershot so Caesars Camp, Tunnel Hill, PorridgePot Hill etc.

another Andy

Andy,

We're off to Longmoor tomorrow for a liaison meeting with MoD & DIO. It's my first time in the meeting. I've been brought up to speed, by various parties, on the general state of play but I'm no expert. I'm in touch with Simon at TAG about the best line of approach for tomorrow. If you've got anything specific you'd like me to bring up, or anything to add to the somewhat problematic attitude of DIO , I'm more than happy to hear it.

Feel free to message me f you'd prefer that.

Slowster,

Last things first. I agree with you in regards to byway surveying. This could be an opportunity for different users to get together and understand each other better. It could also be a way of increasing the capacity of HCC to get the survey done. There is also the possibility of engaging with user groups to get repairs done.

However, the issue with volunteers (as always, and I've been on both sides of the table) is reliance on people who are giving up their spare time. There is often enthusiasm but there is a lack of accountability. When volunteers are good, they tend to be very good. When they're not so good... Consistency, training and monitoring would be the key, as would effective guidance.

All of this is still up for debate as it seems that HCC are still at an early stage of putting this together.

Andy

Slowster,

I'm not as familiar with the Wiltshire map as I could be. I'll head off and have a look at it. Given that this is all done with GIS and CMS, I can't see that it would be incredibly difficult to implement. I'll have a wee chat with the RoW people at the next meeting.

However, the issue with volunteers (as always, and I've been on both sides of the table) is reliance on people who are giving up their spare time. There is often enthusiasm but there is a lack of accountability. When volunteers are good, they tend to be very good. When they're not so good... Consistency, training and monitoring would be the key, as would effective guidance.

Agreed. I guess that one of problems is not only how to attract and recruit volunteers, but crucially how to pick the 'right' people, in a similar way to finding a new employee to fill a vacancy. You need a selection process to weed out those people who will cause problems and those who promise their time and effort but prove completely unreliable.

One solution might be to contact the national organisations for user groups and see if they have any regional representatives and/or to contact any local clubs (Ramblers, cycling clubs, horseriders and 4x4 off roaders). The secretaries etc. of such clubs may be able to help find suitable volunteers.

On that note, with regard to which cycling clubs might be worth contacting, don't rule out the racing clubs or the CTC/Cycling UK: many of the members will also be into off road riding, and some of those clubs will have more retired and semi-retired members who would be willing and able to give up their time.

All of this is still up for debate as it seems that HCC are still at an early stage of putting this together.

It might be best to start a very small informal trial. In HCC's shoes, assuming their people are based in their Winchester offices, I would aim to set up a small trial covering the ROW within a smallish radius of Winchester. That should soon show if the concept would work and is worth developing and rolling out, as well as give an opportunity to identify and iron out any issues at an early stage. Keeping it local to Winchester should make it easier for HCC's people to run and monitor the trial, and if necessary to intervene if problems arise.

Morning all,

Sorry about the radio silence over the last few months, real life has been somewhat challenging and everyone's gaze has been focussed on the north of the county.

However, I do have something to report.

It's about the very exciting issue of path clearance and hedge cutting. I know.

Every year the Countryside Service maintain the long-distance paths in the county, making sure they are clear for everyone. They also ask EVERY PARISH COUNCIL to identify their 5 key paths for clearing. There are funds and resources available to make that those paths are kept clear of vegetation for the summer.

Why am I telling you this? Because 1st February is the deadline for the parish councils to tell the Countryside Service which paths they want to be kept clear.

So, if there is a path that you use a lot and gets overgrown, now is the time to start telling your parish council about it and lobbying to get it onto their list of five.

Good luck, here's to a slightly nettle and bramble free summer.

[quote="slowster"]- There is inconsistancy in the functionality of the various county council's ROW website maps. One suggestion I would make for Hampshire County Council's map, is to make it possible to turn Footpaths, Bridlepaths and BOATs on and off as separate individual layers (like the Wiltshire map). This makes it easier for cyclists to see how Bridlepaths might be linked together to make a route, and may make it less likely that cyclists would use Footpaths (which the Council would presumably consider to be desirable).

I managed to have a chat with the Map Review Officer this week and asked him about this. He admitted that he has no idea whether it's possible but has forwarded it on to someone in their technical team who will definitely know. As soon as I hear anything, I'll put it up here.

Hi Andy,

I'm not sure if this is your remit or not, but are you familiar with Winchester City Council's plans to expand the P&R car park at Bar End for coach parking?

[img] http://photobucket.com/confirmation?token=LevJYRyakU74UC717KR8DTdoo%2BguceSrxqHso4mbssymoRa8yuWW9VLh57gyo8Z3JT2Z9SAfjxygXIMdwDbj1vbuaY%2BztjtX [/img]

Their intention is to bulldoze a significant amount of mature woodland including the infamous Bar End trails which have been a popular spot for riders globally since their inception in 1997.

I have meet with WCC and HCC and they are looking at other sites that we have suggested. However, this remains their preferred option. They have not yet applied for planning.

Questions are therefore:

1. Were you aware of this?

2. As a rider / ecologist / rights of way advocate, is this something you would also oppose?

3. Do you have any power/leverage with(in) these organisations?

Doesn't really make sense when their South P+R is never even half full...

Doesn't seem fair. I imagine clearing mature woodland will be difficult and the levels would be expensive.

Need to bear in mind Barton Farm will also have a P+R in the future.

I can't see the image. Where are you getting the info from?

I don’t know whether this is part of my remit or not. I’ll see what I can help with.
[quote=”Caspian”]Questions are therefore:
1. Were you aware of this?
I have heard nothing about it. This is the first I’ve heard, I’ll ask around and see if any of the other advocates around the place have heard anything. Am I right in thinking that you’re talking about the dirt jumps in the trees between the P&R and the roundabout?
If I’m honest, I know very little about them, being more of a “wheels on the ground” kind of rider. What is the current status of the trails regarding permissions and management? That kind of thing is important.
[quote=”Caspian”]2. As a rider / ecologist / rights of way advocate, is this something you would also oppose?
Not automatically.
As a palaeo-ecologist I am not necessarily opposed. those woods are relatively young (being beech and, therefore, unlikely to be more than 1-200 years old). It’s worth remembering that trees don’t necessarily equal good from an ecology point of view, especially in the South Downs. So, from the photos it’s difficult to tell whether it represents a significant ecological resource (and is at the outer limits of my knowledge). It is therefore, difficult for me to form an opinion.
As a rider and access advocate, I’m am predisposed to oppose anything that removes riding opportunities in the area. Obviously, these trails have a very particular audience, and one that I am not personally part of and is not represented by any of the major bodies, but that does not limit their value to those who do ride there. As such, I would oppose any plans to remove the resource.
[quote=”Caspian”] 3. Do you have any power/leverage with(in) these organisations?
In a word: no. HCAF is a statutory body and organisations in the area have a statutory duty to [i]listen to our advice[/i]. They do not have a statutory duty to follow that advice.
As with all things access advocacy-related the devil is in the detail. Have any alternative venues for the trails been suggested?
Do you want to give me a shout off-list and we can talk about this in more detail out of the public eye?

Doesn't really make sense when their South P+R is never even half full...

Agreed, except for when [url= http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15388750.UPDATE___PHOTOS___Huge__traveller_camp_moves_on_after_setting_up_in_busy_car_park/ ]travelers take it over as they did earlier this year[/url].

We continue to document with time-stamped photos how underused the South P&R is, even during the Christmas market. There's also 8-10 acres of flat, highly compacted grassland just to the south of it. We've made this argument to WCC and they have promised to re-evaluate this site. Our feeling is that they are too embarrassed to do a U-turn having already spent money on surveyors.

Am I right in thinking that you’re talking about the dirt jumps in the trees between the P&R and the roundabout?

What is the current status of the trails regarding permissions and management? That kind of thing is important.

Have any alternative venues for the trails been suggested?

Appreciate your help - it would be great to discuss further offline: rbosullivan [at] yahoo [dot] co [dot] uk. We're down there regularly, building.

My kids (3, 5, 7) ride there. I challenged the WCC members to name five free outdoor activities for Winchester kids to take part in. They couldn't name three in the meeting, let alone five.

Is there anything online about it? I can't see your image.

Caspian: you've got mail

Sorry to chuck a tangent in here but up in the Peak District/ Sheffield area we’ve had some good results advocacy wise and we chucked it all into one place to help others get involved and learn from our mistakes!

Again, sorry to interrupt, but it might help

Keeper of the Peak site:
https://kofthep.com/2017/05/08/the-advocacy-files-a-celebration-of-effort/

[b]Joefm [/b]- Other than a FB page we have no online presence, currently. I may change that shortly as I think a credible-looking website will help our case, especially as we have more and more local Primary school aged children coming down to use it.

[b]ShanAndy[/b] - Cheers, replied just now and look forward to meeting you on site.

[b]Pook[/b] - Many thanks, I'll go though the site tonight and see what I can learn from similar cases.

Sorry for the thread hijack but this site means a lot to us! It's MTB friendly too in case anyone near Winchester enjoys riding jumps.

[quote="pook"]Sorry to chuck a tangent in here but up in the Peak District/ Sheffield area we’ve had some good results advocacy wise and we chucked it all into one place to help others get involved and learn from our mistakes!

Again, sorry to interrupt, but it might help

All interruptions are good. I've been slowly going through the advocacy files over the last six months or so. They're really helpful for someone new to the game.

Keep up the good work

Many thanks to Shan Andy for the help since the above was posted, and for all the other suggestions to help save our trails & woodland in Winchester.

Petition is up and we are well on our way to 1,000 signatures in the first 24hrs.

If you get a minute, please read and sign!

http://chn.ge/2Cw91db

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack. As you were!

Done and good luck!

Done. Usually come down into Winch on monarchs way by st Catherine's then loop back out on the sdw. Might stop by next time to break up the ride!

Thanks both - call by anytime!