[Closed] Gutted, are my forks totally goosed ? Picture included

I presume that somewhere along the line something fairly nasty has got behind the wiper seal

Yep it's called a Fox stanchion.

If they still work fine just keep riding them!

They're only knackered when the stop working.

Keep using them till they die,

That will give you time to look out for a really good deal and get something else cheap.

So this is not a first then ? 🙂

My Fox 36's did the same about 3 months ago - flushed out some nasty grey dirty oil and now work better than they ever have!

Dont worry about it and keep riding...

If you're worried about stanchion damage, then don't buy secondhand. Some people do drop their lowers, and change their oil regularly (like me), and some don't - so the stanchions may look fine, but actually aren't.

Revs are far nicer than TALAS, plusher, and have less reported issues. You get spacers in with the Revs, so you can drop them to 140 too. Don't bother with the RLT version though, just get the RL - who actually bothers adjusting the lockout threshold and needs a knob to do it on the fly?

Also - Merlin Cycles will drop 10% off the price when you go to the checkout too, so about £300 for new. Bargain.

They'll be fine for ages IMO. Are they leaking oil?

Even if they are, my Pikes did something similar and I did the nail varnish fix/bodge - still going strong.

150mm revs are awesome.

Run em til they're dead, then buy some Rev's which are ace

Your other option is to buy some Kashima 140 uppers from Mojo, I think the uppers and a service are £250. Which is pretty good, considering you end up with a nearly new fork.

Although I do have to say, how often do you have your forks serviced? Regular to you may not be as regular as they need. Fox are proper smooth and well balanced as a fork, but you really should drop the lowers every couple of weeks to clean the seals, lube the foam rings and lube the seals. It's a 15 minute job, you wouldn't run your bike with a dry chain, so why skimp on a £700 pair of forks?

Anyway, that's in the past - but if you buy Fox again - drop the lowers regularly to keep them going for a long time.

but if you buy Fox again - drop the lowers regularly to keep them going for a long time.

or just buy some marzocchis and ride your bike without a worry instead
😈

mine did the same, very very very gradually, i got mojo to switch the uppers when they went in for a service (they needed a service more than new uppers)

I dont think its a lack of maintenance issue, if like munkyboy I'd noticed a slow wear rate then I'd have said yes I'd ignored a problem and it got worse, my own fault, however they were running fine and the stantions had no marks scratches or wear at all, one hour into a ride, I have this sort of damage, I just lifted the seals and its all pretty clean in there, I am wondering if there is something amiss inside the lowers

but if you buy Fox again - drop the lowers regularly

Are fox known to be more prone to this than Rockshox or other manufacturers ?

And when you drop the lowers, do you need to replace the oil each time, or do you just take the lowers off leaving the fork upside down and retain all the oil that way

Rockshox are less prone to wear issues IME.

You don't need to replace the oil when you drop the lowers, just turn the bike upside down and leave it for a few minutes. Take the lowers off, clean the stanchions and the seals with IPA and a lint-free rag, take the foam rings out, pop them in some float fluid, give them a squish, pop them back in the lowers, pop some float fluid on the seals (or some click grease), pop the lowers back on and you're done.

If you lose any oil from the lowers make sure to put the same amount back in, of the correct weight.

It's a very quick job, and the third or forth time you do it you'll not make any mess 🙂

Probably worth buying some crush washers too, if they are deformed or damaged when you take the foot nuts off.

Simples 🙂

If you get stuck, have a look at the lowers service how to and just have the bike upside down when you do it, and skip removing and refilling the oil.

Thanks Rickon, I have an annual service, but have never dropped the lowers at yet. Not sure thats been the issue this time, becasue the wear was very sudden and with no clue beforehand. But will get in the habit of giving my forks a refresh

its the bush running dry and seizing IMO

Fox design means the upper bushes do not get splash lubricated from the oil in the lowers. If you don't either keep the bike inverted or do the oil the foam rings bit the upper bush will run dry, seize then that happens. the damage could be done very quickly.

However the for will continue to work just with play in the bush. strip,lube then ignore the damage

hughjengin - Member
Are fox known to be more prone to this than Rockshox or other manufacturers ?

i think youll find that its the defining characteristic of their forks 😉

just google fox stanchion wear

its the bush running dry and seizing IMO

Why a lot of people advocate popping your bike upside down to keep the bushes lubed...

or do the oil the foam rings bit

My fork service place, took the foam rings out and replaced with an oil seal.

indeed rickon - so long as there is oil in there that will do the job

i think youll find that its the defining characteristic of their forks

just google fox stanchion wear

Based on my personal experience this problem happens to 0% of all Fox forks and 100% of all Rockshox forks.

Not unheard of with Rock Shox either!

Yes keep the bike upside down between rides to lube the upper bushes and foam rings as well as flushing them of any soilds that have got past the seals.
The wear is down to dirt ingress, solids sat on/in the seals and bushes, cleaning products also cause issues if they get in the fork as the have degreasing properties.
Recommendations on Fox forks are removing lowers every 15 hours and cleaning/relubing seals and foams and full lower drain, clean and refill every 30, yes I know.
Washing your bike upside down so the dirt,water and cleaning products falls away from the seals also helps

My fork service place, took the foam rings out and replaced with an oil seal.

I wonder about this. When the fork is 'properly' maintained, the foam rings will be wet with oil and will help to keep the top bushings lubricated. I would expect that stanchion wear to be more likely if the rings are replaced with seals. I'd be interested to know the results from more of those people who made this switch.

Thanks Rickon, I have an annual service, but have never dropped the lowers at yet.

Thing is with older forks a seal clean interval is 30 hours of riding so even a service every year is not going to sort you out IME. I try and do a seal clean on mine at least every 40 hours.

http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/features/maintenance/fox-forks-wiper-seal-service.htm

Rock Shox are just as bad!

Foxy, it should be 15 hrs for seals, especially Talas forks even the older kind, that's what Mojo are quoting now a days anyway.
Edit: Flow my scrap bin tells a different story.

@flow - I did tell my mate who had some reba races to service them - he hasn't touched them for 3.5 years - his pop-loc internal spring failed but he put it all off. Last weekend "all of a sudden" both uppers are scored - just happened all of a sudden.....

Edit: I did tell him to send them to LOCO and even got him a quote!

@loco - 15 hours really - blimey 🙂 oops - better do mine again then 🙂

Edit: If I read my own article "Finished - You'll find you get quicker every 15 hours of riding!!"

Duh - flippin eck my brain is rotting away 🙂

I wonder about this. When the fork is 'properly' maintained, the foam rings will be wet with oil and will help to keep the top bushings lubricated. I would expect that stanchion wear to be more likely if the rings are replaced with seals. I'd be interested to know the results from more of those people who made this switch.

Think about the system when its moving, the foam ring collects oil from the stanchion as it compresses and lubricates it as it extends, the outer dust seal is designed to stop crap getting in, it doesn't work so well in reverse so the foam ring is needed to catch the oil as it rises up through the fork.

A seal will do the same job, it just holds less oil above the bush, it still takes the oil off the stanchion and puts it back at the same rate, infact it should be better as it doesn't lose oil out of the fork, hence why forks with seals (marzocchi) can last for years without needing an oil top up (that and they're open bath).

On the OP's forks, there's two exlanations why the wear was sudden.

1) it was gradual, but the anodising was hard so gradualy wore through slowly untill a patch of raw aluminium was exposed, which wore quickly.
2) the oil only just ran out.

tinaspoon. The Float 32 seals are double ended, i.e there are two wipers, an external one for the cack / mud and a similar internal one to stop the oil escaping. The foam ring is there purely to retain oil and feed / lubricaqte the upper bushing.
Otherwise the fork would have oil deposits on the upper stanchions all the time.

Edit: Flow my scrap bin tells a different story.

Fox are fitted to way more off the shelf bikes than RS

Check your forks when they are new too.

My Revelation's arrived with barely any lubricating oil in the lowers!

flow - Member

"Edit: Flow my scrap bin tells a different story".

Fox are fitted to way more off the shelf bikes than RS

really? I suspect LOCO knows rather more about forks than you do

really? I suspect LOCO knows rather more about forks than you do

Yeah really.

They are fitted to more bikes that RS's are, there are obviously going to be more issues, don't you think?

Foxes are not fitted to more bikes than RS I do not believe and I trust Loco to know about forks

Foxes are not fitted to more bikes than RS I do not believe

Facts!! It doesn't matter what you believe. [url= http://bike198.com/poll-results-whos-mountain-bike-suspension-are-you-running/ ]This poll[/url] suggests that twice as many bikes have (in 2010) Fox forks fitted. Not in any way conclusive, but way more substantive than a hunch.

There isn't any doubt as to Loco's tehcnical know-how, just that you and he may not be considering proportions.

flow hearts Fox

True!

It all depends on how many people get their forks serviced, the general masses as we all know don't bother. Suppose loco can confirm the share of fox and rock shox he services and how many have sanction wear. From what I've seen, all forks will suffer with neglect, I've seen many stories of fox forks failing within a few months of use which is why they have such a bad reputation for it.

Also worth bearing in mind that although twice as many bikes came with fox forks in 2010, very few bikers replace their forks with fox, rockshox is pretty much always the way to go for great forks at great value!

I destroyed my Pike stanchions through neglect. It taught me forks must be looked after and need a regular bath / splash oil service.

After dropping the lowers and understanding how the bushes run on the stanchion it's clear that as soon as the bath oil gets used up / old / dirty the stanchions are going to get worn. - Imagine running an engine with no oil.

I urged my mates (who have destroyed a fair few pairs of Fox stanchions between them) to start doing this lower leg service regularly. So far so good - no more knackered stanchions.

I bet the majority of bikers who own Fox / Rockshox think a 'yearly service' and a good clean and lube of the uppers is enough maintenance. And that's why we unfortunately see so many of these threads.

Ah well- that looks so rigorous that poll.

regarding fox interval servicing loco :

what are the 30 hour proposals ? to replace the damping fluid or only the "bath" fluid in the lowers ? what about the FIT cartridge ???

the 15 hour seal service usually demands a wee [5ml] top up in each leg anyway doesn't it ?

at Freeborn I used to see a lot of customers bikes in the workshop, running both Fox and RS forks with damaged stanchions from a complete lack of "lowers servicing"

a problem with suspension parts is that the performance degrades *slowly* over time

some times so slowly you will not notice unless an experienced friend (with suspension experience) gets on your bike and says "your forks feel like crap" or you start to see visual signs of wear and tear to the fork stanchions or shock shaft

after dealing with my customer's problems due to lack of suspension servicing, I started really getting into this aspect and paying a lot more attention to proper cleaning and regular maintenance regimes on my Fox forks

never had any issues after that? bought some Fox Float fluid, suitable grease (RS Judy Butter) and suitable suspension fluid (Rock oil in relevant viscosities) and went from there..takes about 10-15 minutes with practise and typically done every 6-8 weeks when riding 3-4 times a week

Esher, I do the wiper service with float fluid, stendec sus grease and fork oil, but what is the 30 hour recommendation ?

30 hour for the bath oil service. Yearly for the FIT damper.
I don't think it's widely known that you can remove the FIT damper and send that to Mojo for servicing on its own. A fair bit cheaper too.
So look after the lowers yourself and send off the FIT damper yearly to be rebuilt and everything is good.

Foxy, it should be 15 hrs for seals, especially Talas forks even the older kind

I thought they'd upped this to 25 hours so you could actually do a 24 hour race an not void your warranty?

It's a funny one Fox, I acknowledge the issues people have, but on the flip side I've got 32 Floats (08) and 32 Vanillas (09), I keep the the visible stanchion and seal area clean, use Brunox fork lube just on the external uppers and send them for a service once a year. I expect to be told they're toast each time and they're always fine.

Both have been put through 8, 12, 24 hour races in the past and the subsequent training for them in all conditions, so hardly a lack of use.

Ok to clarify the original comment about 15 hours for wiper/lower leg service and 30 for lower leg lubrication replacement came from a Mojo employee the other last week, in reference to a set of FIT forks.

I also offer the service as Entonox mentioned, of just servicing the FIT damper carts. which does make servcing cheaper, however it means that the lower leg bushing won't get an inspection and adjustment.

All forks will wear if not looked after and over time the oil will degrade resulting in a reduction in performance, so even if the works are quoted as not needing to be serviced for 3 years, I'd still change the oil every 12 months to keep them feeling good.

@ loco :

so how much oil in each leg at 30 hours for 2010 float 32 rlc's ?

fox's website offers various quantities.

i'll just slap 30ml in each when i drain down this weekend unless told otherwise...

always think the £100 service once a year is a sound investment against trashing a set of forks and replacing them at about £800 - £900. Dont forget to get your shock serviced as well 😉

After reading this thread yesterday I dropped my fork legs for a lube last night... and all is well. Thanks for the reminder 🙂

Heard of people using clear nail varnish and then wet and dry to repair this sort of damage. Talas are great especially with the Kashima upgrade. You can always just buy the upper assembly in kashima for £175 and fit it yourself.

Loco: so does that mean a Fox warranty is voided by doing a 24 hour race then?

My old 36 Talas did exactly the same. Took them apart and found the foam ring dry and full of gunge. Was quoted £250 for a replacement stantion/crown set up. The wear issue with fox is totally unacceptable imo and I won't get another set until they sort it out.

Replaced them with some Merlin Revs. Beware as mine were not as 'new' as I thought. The original set + the replacements had marks on the stantions so both went back.

Got some DT Swiss now which are ace. Can't comment on durability though as I've not had them long enough but I think they ride better then the Fox + RS.

Ok to clarify the original comment about 15 hours for wiper/lower leg service and 30 for lower leg lubrication replacement came from a Mojo employee the other last week, in reference to a set of FIT forks

That's nuts if true and I don't doubt what you're saying loco, you know forks much better than I do. But that'd mean for me a weekly to fortnightly wiper+lower service on average and a lower leg re-lube every 2-3 weeks, based on having one bike and riding 10-12hrs a week minimum, 20+hrs sometimes in the summer.

There's no doubt they're a quality product performance-wise, but high performance forks from a company that makes off-road truck suspension must be less needy than that?

Fox could easily remedy this situation with a good old fashioned scratchcard lottery - simply scrape the gold coating away (in a newsagents, of course) to reveal 3 special Fox logos and you've won a replacement set of stanchions!

Don't you mean as the gold stanchion gets worn away it reveals the logo? You want to get that suggestion off to Fox. Could be a good marketing tool. Every 1 (in a 1000) a winner.

Loco: so does that mean a Fox warranty is voided by doing a 24 hour race then?

Be hard to prove though - Trouble is I expect if your upper wore in a 24hr race by chance then they wouldn't warranty them anyway?

Have Mojo/Fox or anyone every warrantied a worn set of uppers just out of interest?

There's no doubt they're a quality product performance-wise, but high performance forks from a company that makes off-road truck suspension must be less needy than that?

Dropping the lowers is a 15 minute job really, you'd have no quarms about spending that time cleaning your drivetrain, and if you left it for a year without cleaning and relubing, you'd not wonder why it was sucking like mad and falling to bits - so why not a fork?

Is it just the fact that you can leave your forks for 2 years and they'll look fine, but you'll probably upgrade them in that time, so don't ever see the need to service them?

Or is it that you can't see inside them? So you clean the outside, and the tops of the seals and think it's all good then?

After spending time with LoCo I've learnt the benefits of taking care of your forks, the amount of damage i've seen in his brokens box is bonkers.

To add a bit to this, my missus destroyed the uppers on her Float 100s in just one race at Thetford. That, in the wet = money down the drain. They'll be upgraded to Kashima uppers before the race season starts.

[b]Foxy[/b]: I doubt they would warranty a set of uppers for wear, unless they had a manufacturing defect; how can you prove you've not done more than 15 hours on them, even if you take them back the next day?

Unless I am mistaken, 15 hour service intervals (or 30 hour) are a thing of the past, maybe Kashima coating has changed things. I have the 2012 Trek DRCV forks, and this is the online manual.

http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/09/custprod/index.html
(Click service intervals)

No mention of 15/30 hours lower leg service, just Change Lower Leg Oil every 100 hours, and 200 hours for FIT cartridge !

I will be doing mine more often though, but I enjoy tinkering (luckily).

Yes keep the bike upside down between rides to lube the upper bushes and foam rings as well as flushing them of any soilds that have got past the seals.

It's all very well saying that but it's another thing actually DOING it.

Now, I've got a big garage, but I have 3 bikes with suspension forks in it, and another 3 without. I also have a bench, tools, shelves, racks, a bin, a mower.... oh, and 2 motorbikes in there. I have to move 2 bikes around as it is to work in there, and I simply don't have the room to store 3 upside down. Not possible.

Also, for that flippin price, why the fek should I have to?

I shouldn't. So that's one reason why I don't buy Fox forks.

As always, as I have said many times before, the generally accepted cure for Fox stanchion wear is called "RockShox".... you might have heard of it.......