If it's just dry gravel, I'm happy riding 23mm slicks on it eg happens all the time in Portugal where you never quite know what the road surface will change into...
Their back roads randomly change between tarmac and gravel and back again all over the place.
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On long downhills on the drops my neck really does start to ache a bit due to the bum in the air position if I want to be stood out the saddle.
Yeah, but would you be standing any differently if the saddle was lower? I find there's a comfortable amount of leg extension necessary to provide support, balance and "shock absorption". I'm not sure how that would change if my saddle was a wee bit lower.
This got me thinking about adding suspension to my potential next gravel bike via Cane Creek Thudbuster or similar, then realised my first choice gravel bike is a Giant Revolt with their stupid proprietary seatpost! Why do companies never learn, keep it simple stupids...
Yeah, but would you be standing any differently if the saddle was lower? I find there’s a comfortable amount of leg extension necessary to provide support, balance and “shock absorption”. I’m not sure how that would change if my saddle was a wee bit lower.
I don't actually know if it would help, as you say - other than letting me stand lower due to there being a saddle not in the way.
I'd have to test with dropping the saddle manually and see if it makes any difference. The other option is to raise the bars with a higher rise stem. Tbh it's not too bad, I only notice it when I'm having to look a long way up the trails and, if I stare at the front wheel it's fine
This got me thinking about adding suspension to my potential next gravel bike via Cane Creek Thudbuster or similar, then realised my first choice gravel bike is a Giant Revolt with their stupid proprietary seatpost! Why do companies never learn, keep it simple stupids…
The worst thing I found was the vibrations through the pedals, I occasionally get numb foot soles on rough trails!
The worst thing I found was the vibrations through the pedals, I occasionally get numb foot soles on rough trails!
I'd be doing it to protect my back mostly, for those longer rides or un-seen bumps that go straight up your spine. My lower back is ropey enough these days!
@ RP
If you want feedback on the CGR 725 let me know. I had one from mid April till it was stolen in mid Aug.
For dropper then please look at the Marin Nicasio Ridge. I love the way they have done the dropper remote in the left hand brake lever.
Much as I love my road bike and mountain bike, my cross bike (that’s what they were called when I bought my Tricross about 10 years ago and I ain’t changing) would be the bike I would keep in the event of a nightmare “you can only have one bike” scenario.
The attraction of cross bikes to me isn’t the style of riding, it’s more about where the bike can take me out into the countryside. Gets me further than my mountain bike can and if it gets technical I get off and push. I absolutely love my cross bike. It’s very much my “go exploring” bike.
As for it being the current fashion, in reality it’s just getting back to the early days of cycling. “Road” bikes being used on “roads”. Look at what the Rough Stuff Fellowship were doing half a century ago. Amazing stuff.
I’m delighted to see the resurgence regardless of what it’s called, gravel, adventure, CX, cross or whatever.
@NM I'd certainly be interested to hear your thoughts on the CGR 725. I'm a sucker for a steel frame as you know, especially if it's "fancy" steel. That's what puts me off the Nicasio. It's no doubt just as good in practice but 725 (or even better 853) just sounds so much nicer than CroMo to those of us that don't really understand these things but just like a nice sticker 🙂
But I live up in Scotland. There are plenty of trails up here that are still beyond my ability/nerve whatever bike I’m on.
I live in South Wales, surrounded by proper techy riding. I’ve got a 150mm trail bike, HT, and a Vagabond. I could ride really difficult, scary trails every day of the week without repeating them, many from my door. Sometimes though it’s just nice to go for a ride..
I’m off on Friday and am wondering whether to ride Masts on the big bike or to take the Vagabond over the hills, past Masts and down to Afan for a coffee stop. It’s nice to have the choice. 😁
@RP I will send you some of my waffling on the CGR then 😉
So - I've been mulling and reading up on these 'ere gravel bikes. I can't really decide whether I want something steel (specifically a Cotic Escapade) which sounds loads more compliant and probably more comfortable or something more like a dual purpose road bike (specifically the Rose Backroad, but the Genesis Datum has caught my eye). And as an extension to that I can't decide if 1x or 2x is the way to go. The MTB'er in me (a true 1x convert on an MTB) makes me think 1x would be good enough, but the pragmatist in me does make me think that on something that I might end up dragging on roads and tracks, a good 2x would make much more sense.
In other news I'm trying to sort out where we're going over the Christmas hols for a few days and that is also sucking away my will to live. I hate it when I start reading up on things...
1x definitely, I was always getting sticks and things stuck in my front mech.
Frame design makes more difference than material to comfort IME.
Frame design makes more difference than material to comfort IME.
+1, I like steel MTB's, but much prefer my aluminum gravel bikes, if the bikes raison d'etre is to be fast and light then making it heavier and softer doesn't achieve that.
No experience of the cotic though.
Think what you want it for. The datum with 28mm tyres is much closer to a winter road bike that can deal with cycle paths and the odd detour down back lanes. The escapade will take 33mm CX tyres with mud room (or 37mm slicks) and 650bx47 gravel tyres depending on how off road you want it to go. The two will end up being very different.
1x definitely, I was always getting sticks and things stuck in my front mech.
Depends, but I'd go 2x. On the road you want to keep up in a group which means probably 46-11 on even a gentle downhill, uphill 1:1 is a good gear for pretty much anything. 42:10-42 just about covers that, but a double gives closer gears and better shifting. CX/gravel doubles shift much quicker than roadie 34-50 doubles too so it's much less of an issue (and I'd not got 1x on a road bike even with the relatively clunky/slow upshift).
Yeah - I get that it's not just about frame material. The Rose and the Datum both seem to be closer to winter road bikes - a roadie friend has the Rose and he loves it, saying clearly that if he puts his road wheels on it it's as quick in all respects as his road bike, but has loads of tyre clearance. The Cotic does seem to be more relaxed proposal.
I do expect I'll use it quite a bit on roads - one of the things that attracts me to the whole thing is riding from my doorstep rather than driving for 20 mins or so. There are some nice long towpaths along the Seine not too far, and a bit of a ride on the road followed by a blast there on the weekend really sounds like a nice change.
I am erring on the side of 2x for all the reasons thisisnotaspoon said. I haven't ridden with a front mech on MTB for ages, but closer gearing really does sound attractive for the riding I described above.
The Rose and the Datum both seem to be closer to winter road bikes – a roadie friend has the Rose and he loves it, saying clearly that if he puts his road wheels on it it’s as quick in all respects as his road bike, but has loads of tyre clearance.
Rose are really under-rated, always light for the money and offer some nifty custom options. Really well set up out of the box also and the stock Rose wheels on my road bike were really decent spec.
My only regret is that their gravel bike has the bottom bracket height of a CX bike. I don't know how much I'll notice this, but don't want to spend £2k finding out, when I know I would prefer the handling as close as possible to that of a road bike.
Got 700x 40 nanos set up tubeless on my escapade. Great on most sized gravel and surprisingly efficient on the roads between tracks. It’s been a great bike. I think it’s relatively easy to build up a reasonably light bike from the frame. I love mine after 5 yrs ish but new standards mean I’ve been look8ng at the carbon hook ext from Bombtrack. Much lighter and prob more versatile again.
Also Paul at cotic tells me that even the mk 1 will take 650x47 byeways.
‘sketchy’ doesn’t necessarily mean more exciting… it can just mean it’s more rubbish.
Every time this topic comes up I say the same basic thing to me riding (my) gravel bike reminds me of riding a mountain bike circa 1990ish.
No suspension, narrow bars, less grippy tyres than an MTB but still quite rewarding as an all round bicycle...
Faster on the road than an MTB, a bit better off-road than a Road bike would be, so relatively efficient (IMO). I do switch to narrower (32mm), nobblier tyres for winter as they cut through the mud and clear it a bit better. Summer I run 40mm bastard file types for the 'cush'.
Despite my original intentions, and having most of the other necessary kit I've not gotten into bikepacking with it yet. Best intentions and all...
Just for closure, as they say, I finally ordered a Cannondale Topstone Carbon. And I'm loving it. I can ride to the forest from my door and that gives me a reasonable run out. It's good on the road with the stock WTB Riddler 37 setup tubeless and they're OK offroad but they lack grip on the wet stuff (unsurprisingly). For anyone else wondering like I did, I do not regret the 2x setup; as much as I love 1x on my MTB, 2x is a much nicer experience pedalling over long distances at relatively constant speed.
It's also very comfortable and once I got over the idea of riding a small sized frame, it's smashing. The Medium in the shop was really too big...
I've just bought a 2020 Roubaix Comp and I'm blown away at the difference between it and my faithful old 2014 Roubaix SL4. In the chaingang ride last Saturday I was dropping back on long hills (still lacking leg strength after the collar bone break) but catching up on the flats and easily passing the rest of the riders on downhills. Even the ride leader commented on what a fast bike it seemed to be. I had this confirmed again on the return, solo against the breeze when I saw a rider about 200 yards ahead and noticed how he pulled away on climbs but I more than made up the loss on flats and dowhills, eventually passing him.
The bike has 28mm tyres so I've tried it on a couple of gravel tracks and apart from the limitations of the slicks on wet leaves and loose stones it copes perfectly well. So now I've got a bike that's faster, capable on different surfaces and just as comfortable (more actually thanks to the boingy stem and seatpost) than my old Roubaix - almost the perfect mixed tarmac/gravel bike.
