[Closed] Gravel Biking in the UK: Just like 'Mountain Biking' was 25-30 years ago...

32c is a cyclocross size, gravel bike are more like ~40c, couple that with 700c wheels and you have pretty offroad capable tyre/wheel combo.

[i]Isn't gravel biking for people who have finally realised that the area they live in is actually pish for mountain biking?.
[/i]

Or in my case, only a few good trails and lots of mediocre ones, i take the MTB out to play on the good trails and use the Vaya on the smoother less exciting ones instead of road riding.

I got a CX bike a couple of years ago. But to be honest its just morphed into a road bike with disc brakes (and bad angles).

For me drop bars are sooooo much worse than flat bars (for pretty much everything other than aero positions) to the point that its completely pointless using a drop bar bike for anything other than out and out road.

Im quite happy with skinny tires, rigid forks, narrow bars etc but putting drop bars on the bike just ruins it for me offroad.

Gravel Biking in the UK: Just like 'Mountain Biking' was 25-30 years ago...

it's complicated, it's different, but yes, i know what you mean...

For people that think gravel biking is just like 90s mountain biking, and that's a great thing, why not pull a rockhopper out of a skips instead? 90s mtbs are also like 90s mtbs.

It [b]IS[/b] pretty similar to how [b]I[/b] got into 'mountain biking' though, that's the point for me. I've gone full circle, through suspension and gnarrr and all the rest to come back to just enjoying having a bike i can ride up gravel paths and farm tracks and bridleways, but also do a better job of linking it together.

I wouldn't dream of taking it to an uplift day, I've got a much better tool for that. But for those days when you don't really have a route in mind, no clock pressure, and fancy a bit of 'I wonder where that goes?' riding, I'd rather have my CX than my first MTB.

I don't like the idea of huge tyres. The appeal of the bike to me, is that it rolls really fast and feels like a road bike. If I lost that, I may as well ride an mtb instead.

I wouldn't dream of taking it to an uplift day, I've got a much better tool for that. But for those days when you don't really have a route in mind, no clock pressure, and fancy a bit of 'I wonder where that goes?' riding, I'd rather have my CX than my first MTB.

yeah, that.

For people that think gravel biking is just like 90s mountain biking, and that's a great thing, why not pull a rockhopper out of a skips instead? 90s mtbs are also like 90s mtbs.

Oh, might just do that; keep my Kilauea company 🙂
Mate along the road *does* have a Rockhopper (steel) and no way will he be parting with it unless over his dead body...

I wouldn't dream of taking it to an uplift day, I've got a much better tool for that. But for those days when you don't really have a route in mind, no clock pressure, and fancy a bit of 'I wonder where that goes?' riding, I'd rather have my CX than my first MTB.

I'd have my rigid 29er for that. Just took it out on some rooty, very rocky and very steep trails that I'd never consider a 'gravel' bike on. And it's comfortable for riding miles on road too.

I'd also have a gravel bike to go alongside it - but not replace it.

Hi Matt, or you ride weird, inappropriate bikes and have a laugh......

DoctorRad - Member
...before suspension got involved, but with slightly narrower tyres and drop bars?
Discuss.

Precisely how I have described it to several people lately ...

dufusdip - Member
It's just a hipster fad. CX used to be what roadies did in the winter to keep fit and it just wasn't fun. Narrow tyres, lots of mud, no suspension. All sounds amazing.
Tell you what, ignore this internet thing too and go back to writing letters.

As wonderful as technology is, there is something to be said for (relative) simplicity, most "progress" comes with some unforeseen side effects mostly whinging about cost it seems...

Sometimes it is nice to just dial down the complexity...

Hmmmmm, maybe there's a way we can trick the marketing people into pursuading the manufacturers that 26" is the next big thing on the roads?

i think we need to clarify the differences between stereo type 1980s and stereo type 1990 MTBs

The 1990 was influnced by SC racing. there was trend for less weight, steeper head angles, thinner tyres and crucially a more flat riding position and narrower bars. The first time I road this type down a hill i was terrified.

The 1980s was much more upright, wider bars, shorter stem and often bigger tyres. I think these bikes have often been forgotten along with desire to ride steep rough terrain that went with them

[img] [/img]

I did the Wiggle South Downs thing on Saturday (well sort of - I followed the route ish, glad I didn't pay £35 for the privilege) on a fs 29'er. Would have been a lot more fun on my Fargo I think........

Good point on 90's mtbs, they are what I grew up on, and for covering ground in an XC race are amazingly quick, and were okay on the road with a few minor mods.

Here is a nice random example from the web (not too dissimilar from the bike I had). Just look at that saddle to bar drop 😀

[img] [/img]

Geometries, whats the real difference between say My TCX Adv CX'er and a say a 29'er XC race machine or mid 90's XC machine? I'd say not a fat lot, they all look to be steep head angles, BB heights give or take 20mm can't be far out, top tube length similar perhaps, stems all within 30mm (say for a 100mm std length) Ok so the drops on a CX'er sent you further forward on the hoods, but bar ends kinda do that on an XC bike.
Tyres, well we're all going bigger now unless you race CX, so the Gravel Grinders I use are 38mm's on 700c wheels which mean we're not far away from XC 29er territory...
Position, I think this is the only real difference.. CX'er and Gravel bikes are way more arse up/head down and I think they need to be, but it's been proven time again that a good XC bike will rattle around a CX course as quick in the right hands.
The only major difference I see is a slightly more upright position on a specific Gravel Bike yet an XC bike with a -degree stem on it would almost replicate that position.

All much of a muchness, more to do with what the rider wants out of a bike these days rather than being dictated to by manufacturers, they're just filling in a gap..

Not a huge difference all told.

Unless I'm blind.

Seems to me that the wheel size and related bar width are the biggest differences.

I'm with cookea, and bikebouy's last bit, for me having gone through the MTB revolution from the late 80's it's all about simplicity and grabbing something to ride, following your nose linking up bridleways with canal tow paths and country lanes, I still drive round now seeing a bridleway sign and thinking "I wonder if that links up" checking Google Earth and then riding it.

I'm enjoying riding from home, the uncomplicated nature of grabbing a bike and not involving an hours drive, the uncomplicated cantilever brakes, no suspension, bobbing skinny tyres on it and riding road, throwing some griffo's on it and riding trail centres, tow paths and bridleways, I won't ever ride sticks pass, torridon or use it for uplifts but for everything In between it's simplicity is quite refreshing

Good to see more real world bikes.

Big tyres are good.
Relaxed angles are good.
Higher bars are good.

It's about time the touring scene got a boot up the arse as well.

Full rack and pannier mounts make so much sense, but I believe weekend toys are also available for those who find practicality a little déclassé.

A soon-to-be graaavel biking event now arriving this summer:

[img] [/img]

I still drive round now seeing a bridleway sign and thinking "I wonder if that links up" checking Google Earth and then riding it

Except that round by me you'd have a torrid time on skinny tyres doing that 🙂

Ah so not really a gravel bike then!

Living near Salisbury Plain (army roads FTW when they aren't lobbing shells), fancied a new road bike but not really into it enough to splash a lot of money on a specific road bike, just sold a Ti bike and realised my nice new carbon hardtail takes a bit of a kicking on rack with the kids bikes, the ability to bit a bit of light touring and camping with the boys, commuting by the route I fancy rather than just the direct road route..

All these and more are why I ended up with a tripster. Actually reduced my bike count and won some garage related brownie points as a result. It's just another sort of bike despite all the recent fuss (but a very nice one at that).

Just worked out my first shot on a MTB (ATB?) was my mate's Muddy Fox Courier, 29 years ago, riding downhill through a couple of feet of snow in the Necropolis. I don't think early MTB was really like "Gravel Biking". RSF is probably closer, although they probably go places that gravel bikers would not.

It is funny how threads pop up on here on things you were pondering. Last weekend, I was out for a quick spin on my Saxon Cross. The weather turned sleety and wet, I was descending on a old farm track that had become quite eroded in parts in all the rain we have had. As I was clattering down some parts of the trail into some unexpected ruts and rocks, I was reminded of what MTB used to be like when I first started in '92, rigid forks, thin tyres, pick a good line.
The reason I got the bike was that many of the trails near me have been clear felled plus had huge amounts of storm damage, fenced off etc. With the time constraints I was under (teens & work travel ), it was nice to head out on the many fire trails near by, that linked with roads to put in a nice loop.
When things calm down, I hope to get back out trail building, in the meantime I will use the crosser.
BTW that Slate is a stupid bike, I keep telling myself, I have no use for one and everyday I think about getting one ,looking at the site.

Molgrips, where are you riding, my 25mm rims are wider than my old MTB rims used to be?

South Wales Valleys.

Yesterday's ride on the rigid 29er included an old green lane with loads of loose rocks (didn't clean although I usually do) with soft sandy bit and later big mud hole, steep heavily rooted fast descent, mud-fest next section of descent, very sharply pointy rocky next descent into muddy slimy bank onto sustained steep rocky climb with slippery slimy rocks (didn't clean this either) onto very steep slippery stony climb onto soft grassy sinky-inny section. Then onto some nice tracks 🙂

Not sure anyone would've managed that on a gravel bike.

All local bridleways, and all the kind of stuff I was riding and exploring 23 years ago.

BTW that Slate is a stupid bike, I keep telling myself, I have no use for one and everyday I think about getting one ,looking at the site.

Molgrips, It sounds like the Peaks used to be, except for the slimy bits, I'd have definitely been off the X bike carrying over that,

The bridleways I'm meandering over cross farmers fields and skirt around the olde Worldly villages as cart tracks long forgotten, mind you judging by the amount of dog bombs on them they don't look too forgotten,

Yeah I can imagine that kind of BW would be perfect. As so often the case on here regional variations can cause disagreements 🙂

Which makes me wonder.. instead of 'gravel' or 'enduro' or other labels - I wonder if we could do geographical categories. A South Downs bike, a Hampshire bike, a Peaks bike etc? 🙂

You have probably just given a marketing team for a manufacturer a great idea there 💡

Molgrips, where are you riding, my 25mm rims are wider than my old MTB rims used to be?

Apparently early stumpjumpers had 1.75 inch rims.

http://mombat.org/MOMBAT/Bikes/1982_Stumpjumper_1055.html

Again its the 1990 where rims went narrow. Thats well after the start of mountain biking

my second MTB had these skinny rims. Just 30mm

[img] [/img]

Mavic 321 was the default wasn't it? IIRC they were remarkably shallow but I think the 21 referred to the width.

Mavic 321 was the default wasn't it? IIRC they were remarkably shallow but I think the 21 referred to the width.

I had one of those. But I think they came in the early 90s

[quote=imnotverygood ]The Slate is a bit odd though. Slick tyres and a lowest gear of 36/28. Seems to be far more biased towards the [b]gravel[/b] road than a lefty fork would imply.As this thread is highlighting, there are regional variations in what we think of as "light off road". It's probably true to say that the Slate is built for a type of terrain we have little of in the UK.

I think the main point of modern marketing has more to do with the availability & "normality" of suspension forks, anyone who didn't grow up in the 90's think they are the norm & they ride to suit, those of us who have progressed from rigid to suss forks just see gravel bikes as the crap we were riding 25 years ago, or embrace them & use skinny by modern standards 29er tyres 😉

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5661/21867492676_134e11749b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5661/21867492676_134e11749b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zjmBHN ]IMG_1058[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/94658862@N08/ ]Martin Robbo[/url], on Flickr

Or this that I was riding about ten years ago

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5592/14948498311_3e3fa9fe50_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5592/14948498311_3e3fa9fe50_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/oLWXKv ]DSC00073[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/94658862@N08/ ]Martin Robbo[/url], on Flickr

I can't say I remember wide Mavic rims? Wide chrome ones that weighed a ton with pimpled braking surfaces, then everything seemed to go ARAYA or RIGIDA, Those wide Mavic rims must have been a fortune back in the day.

I remember the XM321 Sup also the 19 and 17 I think?

Everything went narrow in the 90's as the MTB world adopted skinny wheels as well as the Lycra 🙂
I thought that 25mm rims were quite wide by today's standard?

Interesting thread. I think a 29" F/s Xc bike with lockout is much better than a gravel bike as an all rounde thoughr. Far less fatiguing off road and almost as fast on.

quotecrosshair - Member
Interesting thread. I think a 29" F/s Xc bike with lockout is much better than a gravel bike as an all round though. Far less fatiguing off road and almost as fast on.

Without trying to sound demeaning my point was that everything was ridden without suspension a while back, you learnt to ride without it, no excuses, just ride what you could & curse what you couldn't.

Quite! So now you can get good VFM f/s bikes with lockout- I don't know why you'd bother with a gravel bike or even a CX bike for any rough stuff really. By erring on the side of too much off-road capability, you cover far more bases than erring on too little.

Ironically, after using a Scott Spark for almost all of my riding for three years- I've just bought a CX bike.....to use as a road bike 😀

I've done Ludgershall --> Warminster --> Ludgershall across Salisbury Plain (a proper gravel bike ride if ever there was one) at 15mph before on my Spark XC bike so I will test my CX this year and see if it's any quicker- it certainly won't be as comfy.

I ride my CX/gravel/gnarmac* round the crap local trails I used to ride my late 80/early 90s first MTBs around, so yeah I get the op, but on my MTB I ride much better local stuff unsuited to CX, yeah I've nursed my CX down some of them but it's not a heap of fun.

I like the frame, bars, brakes etc, the limiting factor for me is tyres, at 32c I either have to pump em so hard I have no grip (or blow off the rim tubeless) or I puncture (or pinch/tear tubeless). I [i]could[/i] use bigger tyres but then I'd be riding a 29er with wonky bars (I already have a proper 29er) and it wouldn't be a lightening quick CX bike anymore.

Get me some tyres that I don't flat at ~37psi, fit under my 'guards (its also my commuter bike) and are fairly light and I'd ride my CX down more stuff (would be perfect for big rides interspersed with a few rocky descents like Mary Townley)

*bloody hell everyone from purists to gravel riders (who don't do gravel races) moaning about the CX tag.

We need a show me your gravel, gnarmac, CX thread, for inspiration purposes,

I still think these 'gravel' bikes are basically crossers with a compact chainset, sold to roadies who think their bike wont cope with a quick lap round Grafham Water in the middle of summer. On the plus side, some of the said roadies might find being strictly tarmac-bound is as mind numbing as it actually is....

^^ we've had loads of threads with pics, I'm not too sure you'd want to see my CXer again though... 😆