@dovebiker I saw that you'd done the Glenlivet red on your gravel bike a few weeks ago. I know it's quite a tame red but there are still a couple of bits I'm not sure I'd fancy on the gravel bike. At least not on 38mm slicks. What is the Speyside way like from Tomintoul north to Glenlivet Distillery? I tried the section north of that on the gravel bike a few weeks ago and won't be trying that again 🙂
Speyside Way from Tomintoul to Glenlivet distillery is 99% rideable at the moment - but might get a bit peat-boggy after rain. First section of descent from Carn Daimh is dodgy, otherwise the rest is well-surfaced gravel or crushed rock.
I did try riding the Speyside Way from Cragganmore to Grantown-on-Spey the other day - big mistake! Too much unrideable, and those horrible 'crusher' stile gates that'll munch a carbon frame if not careful
I did try riding the Speyside Way from Cragganmore to Grantown-on-Spey the other day – big mistake!
Some folk never learn 🙂
https://www.blog.scotroutes.com/2017/03/moray-way-no-way.html
This year, practically every ride has been rigid. I think it took out my retro full susser for one ride, and an old hardtail a couple of times. Other than that, its a gravel bike, a rigid singlespeed 29er, and a few road rides on a CX bike.
Not missing suspension at all 🙂 I'm sure if I had a modern 29er full susser it would be pretty good but my old 26ers just don't compare to riding the rigid bikes!
I ride my rigid bike a lot, and I love it, but only when on the flat and climbing. Every time I descent (around here anyway) I miss suspension 🙂
I've pretty much had a gravel/mixed surface bike since I started mountain biking in 2005. 90% of my riding is around where I live so picking which bike I ride generally also helps pick my route.
All are good but just different.
Recently I've been loving my new Trek Crockett cross bike and have been getting steadily braver with what trails I ride. The other night I found myself riding some local trails at night on it and realised that I should have been on my mountain bike as there is little room for error with a fully ridgid bikes with 38mm tyres and a 71 degree head angle.
For easy fast dry trails though I can't think of a better bike for a few hours.
I’ve just sold my full suss as the majority of my rides now don’t warrant it.
Most of my rides are canal paths, forest tracks and country back roads.
Currently using a Marin Bobcat trail 5 29er. Great for gravel as I just couldn’t get on with drop bars if I fancied heading down a muddy rooty chute.
I too have been shedding suspension. My oldest HT now has carbon forks and 700c wheels which makes it a very effective pseudo gravel bike. My FS has been stripped to provide parts for a new HT, a 29er which at least has suspension forks. However I have just been riding in the Tweed valley and am now thinking I might rebuild the FS.
The HT was great for the more xc loops round Peebles but Glentress and Inners were hard work!
Surely this is why n+1 exists?
The problem I find is that you spend so much time thinking and deciding about one bike/discipline that you feel invested in it - then when you find you like something else a bit more or just as much it feels like you're losing all that previous investment and there's a sense of guilt, which you try and justify with an 'all or nothing' approach.
Have a number of bikes, make each one great and then ride what you want, when you feel like it!
I'm currently wrestling with a fixie that i'm debating turning into a retro road bike...i'm almost losing sleep over it!!
I have two MTBs and one gravel bike.
A full sus for fun stuff in the dry
A hardtail for fun stuff in the wet
A gravel bike for mileage, exploring and commuting.
One of the problems with living in Kent (amongst others) is that if you want to do any kind of long ride, you spend a fair amount of time linking trails up by tarmac.
On Tuesday I did a 60 mile ride which included the Kent section of the North Downs Way and Pilgrims Way, a large portion of which is road.
I’m not massively keen on road riding, so I find the gravel bike is great for getting your head down and getting to the next section of trail asap. Love it.
Most folk I know who ride gravel are roadies, looking to get off the busy roads and a comfier, more capable bike, I don't really know (or can think of at least) that has opted for gravel over MTB.
Lovely pics OP.
Have a number of bikes, make each one great and then ride what you want, when you feel like it!
Doesn't work for me. Something in my head only allows me to have one bike and I like the fact I don't have a choice of bike.
Go to garage, get on bike and ride it (road, off road, gravel). Different bikes will be faster and slower on different surfaces but so what, I am not racing in a specific category.
I don’t really know (or can think of at least) that has opted for gravel over MTB.
I'm sort of in-between, I'm a roadie now (there, I've admitted it!) who still wants some off-road jollies but in a style which is still roady-ish e.g. doesn't require suspension* or gnarly skillz!
I was never a smooth rider to begin with and anything that requires lots of body english e.g. unweighting front wheel, hopping, jumping etc. just puts me off, too much potential to aggravate twitchy lower back muscles etc.
Had an awesome ride on the gravel bike yesterday though, pure CX in as much as there was lots of mud, lots of pedalling and lots of sliding round corners but virtually no lumpy bumpy bits, so 90% of what I loved about MTB anyway just with pedalling instead of gravity. Seems a fair compromise.
If you call it 'training for CX' then you have an excuse to unclip and run/jump over the bits you would previously try and bunny hop anyway 😀
*although I still run a Thudbuster for longer rides
I’m sort of in-between, I’m a roadie now
Aye, but I'd already disowned you! 🙂
I don’t really know (or can think of at least) that has opted for gravel over MTB.
Hi! As I said earlier, gravel is more like the kind of mtbing that I got into in the early 90s. I got bored with driving somewhere to ride round in circles, and spend more time now on exploring lanes and tracks accessible from my door.
Most folk I know who ride gravel are roadies, looking to get off the busy roads and a comfier, more capable bike, I don’t really know (or can think of at least) that has opted for gravel over MTB.
😂 I do chuckle when people talk about gravel bikes being 'comfortable'.
If you want to be comfortable on a bike, don't do it with 38mm tyres on rough tracks. The gravel bike is the one I pick up if I want to go out and come back absolutely wrecked (but without having to drive to Wales).
Mostly it's just a speed thing, the gravel bike eats up the other 95% of the ride and only hits its limit on the 5% the hardtail was designed for.
It's also a bit of a mindset, but maybe that's just the people I ride with. If I'm going out with a group on the gravel bikes, it's not about sitting up and taking it easy on the climbs or flat bits, it's mostly just going a fast as you can, all the time. Whereas MTB for a lot of groups has evolved into "winch and plummet" with a haribo/drinks stop at the top of every hill. as a result, if I'm going MTB'ing I tend to either go alone or drive to meet up with faster groups.
I'm finding this a very interesting thread. I've been MTBing for nearly 30 years, and only in the past few years have got myself a road bike. I think as the bikes wear out I'm heading for a gravel bike and a slack XC susser like the Ripley or Tallboy. Locally the road bike is fun but as I keep away from busier roads, in general the surface is becoming more like a gravel road anyway. So I think the road bike will be replaced with a gravel bike, more comfortable on the rough roads and capable of linking in a few bridleways. As for MTBing, I'm still a huge fan, but not of the newer trail centres with massive jumps and smooth wide trail. I get that it requires a skill that I don't particularly have, but to me the consequences of a crash are too high given the speeds and the size of features. I prefer natural feeling trails, with a nice mix of flow, chunk and tight twists and turns - if it's topped of with great views then so much the better. It will be interesting to see how trail centres and MTBing in general changes over the next few years.
Gravel bike has improved mountain biking me. I no longer use the fs mtb for routes that could be done on the gravel bike (a Kona Sutra Ltd with 29x2.1 tyres, so better than the mtbs I rode in the 80s and 90s) and when I do get the fs bike out I make sure I use it for something interesting and appropriate.
What the gravel bike has made useless is my hardtail. Half of its use is covered by the gravel bike, the other half by the fs bike.
So if anyone wants a xl Marin Pine Mountain 2, let me know!
I've been debating on getting a set of 27.5 wheels for the CAADX, currently on 700x35 marathons but Mrs TFW has been enjoying our fireroad rides lately and I wonder if I'd be comfier on 27.5x1.5 as I doubt I'd get anything wider through the chain stays.
I do chuckle when people talk about gravel bikes being ‘comfortable’.
In comparison to a 25c equipped stiff road bike.
95% of the ride and only hits its limit on the 5% the hardtail was designed for.
Entirely down to you living where you do.
I’ve been debating on getting a set of 27.5 wheels for the CAADX, currently on 700×35 marathons but Mrs TFW has been enjoying our fireroad rides lately and I wonder if I’d be comfier on 27.5×1.5 as I doubt I’d get anything wider through the chain stays.
700x38 Schwalbe tyres fit, a 38c Vittoria fits but left no real mud room as the ETRO number is 40-622..
I run a 35c tyre in winter and 38c in summer, I reckon something like a 38mm terreno dry would work in summer (but CX Comps are cheaper). 38c is 1.5" so I wouldn't bother with 650b for that. 650b only really works for bikes with short chainstays but lots of clearance, so you fit a 2" tyre that has the same diameter as the 700c option, but more width. If the diameter has to shrink then you're just sacrificing ground clearance.
Same the other way around, you see them advertised as 650bx2.2 or 700x2.1, when in reality 700x40 would be a more realistic choice for the big wheel without ruining the handling by raising the BB.
700×35
= 1.38"
I doubt that fitting a 1.5" tyre is going to make any difference.
That's what I was thinking really, thought about the smaller wheels then wondered if I'd actually notice anything. It's probably worth doing on a frame with more clearance using a wider tyre.
Thanks guys.
I got a gravel bike quite a few years ago when it was still a new thing, in fact it was sold as an “adventure” bike and its initial purpose was to be a foul weather training bike with full guards but once i realised it took 40mm tyres I started riding off road. There is no “gravel” as such here so I just did my usual trails.
What I found was I could ride most of what I did on a hard tail (anyone who’s ridden the coast here with Doug will know the trails) with the odd section I’d have to walk down. I’m not exactly a riding god anyway; I have to walk down some bits even with a MTB. Best of all, I could ride to a trail on road, let a few psi out the tyres, then even ride to another trail and do that one too. And bestest bestest of all was getting back on a LLS 29er with gloopy tyres and everything felt like cheating!
I visit a mate in Girona a fair bit and they absolutely do have gravel there, so that’s fun, and riding the 1000m road climb to the top of Mont du Mere de dieu (sp?) and bombing back down on grippy forest trails was immensely entertaining- riding a mtb to the top of that would be a pain.
Riding from your door rules.
+1
It would feel really alien to me to drive and ride. And I'd probably forget something important.
Hmmm - I'm in two minds about this.
New to the area (Nairn/Moray/North of Cairgorms) and it really is a riding Nirvana in every flavour. The road riding is sublime, there is some pretty epic proper MTBing a sensible drive away of the natural and trail variety in 3 out of 4 points of the compass and there are miles and miles of forestry/moorland tracks.
The tracks are great but around every corner lurks a potential gravel bike unfriendly bit of baby's head sized loose stuff. In truth it really is hardtail territory. Linking it up with road and the hardtail is a bit draggy to be fun. A 'fast' gravel bike with skinner tyres and the rougher off road bits become bobbins. A gravel bike beefed up with bigger tyres might either be the best compromise or just a bit naffer than necessary at everything.
Not quite gravel....but the XC bike has had way much more use in 2020 than for a good few years. Covering ground a lot faster than the other MTBs... made me question having a full suss sitting around. I've been taking days off work and doing 60 or 70 milers.
And then I drove to the Lakes at the weekend and did the Borrowdale Bash. My first "proper" riding other than a trip to the Surrey Hills a couple of months back. And everything made sense again - rekindled my love with the bigger bike.
650b definitely gave my trusty Tripster a new lease of life. It was always pretty good on the South Downs but much more sure-footed on the odd challenging descent now. More pedal strikes though...
i bought a gravel bike earlier in the year (Evil Chamois Hagar) and ride it loads, it has quickly become my favorite bike and im fortunate enough to own an SB130. ive just sold my big enduro rig with a view to buying a second gravel bike although the one im looking at next is really a 'monstercross'.
for years we have embraced longer travel, slacker head angles, and now electric motors and i have come to the realisation that making the riding easier hasnt made it any more fun, in fact quite the opposite.
i dont think gravel bikes have ruined mountain biking, mountain biking has, gravel bikes are just making the local stuff fun again (there isnt much to get excited about in Kent).
the one thing that has really ruined mountain biking though has been lock down!
@convert - I'm further over than you and stray into your area only occasionally - take the all purpose bike (Peregrine) for excursions usually but as you say there's always some filling rattling section. Been OK so far - road to Rafford, Dava Way to Dava Moor, then explore on road/off-road after that - Darnaway forest is vast e.g.
It's gone full circle.
That's how mtb all started for me back in late 80s
@UK_FLATLANDER I feel you man. I call it the Flow & Jumps generation, my 15 yr old is growing up with "catch berms" and doubles etc. He flies on the smoother trails, granted he has full on teenage recklessness and has yet to stack at high speed and break bones. But when he gets to nagdery slow speed tech he let's his old man lead as he admits I'm better skilled at the old school stuff.
I bought a gravel bike and started exploring routes from my front door.
You can do that on an MTB too. A short-travel 29" XC bike with semi-slicks would be my choice.
No intention of getting a gravel bike, not for any negative reason I might add, but an interesting thread to read.👍
In truth I probably should have one for my type of riding....but that's another matter.
For a good few years I used to swap from a suspension trail bike to a light rigid singlespeed for winter. Of course that's about 6 months of the year in this country. I struggled getting back on the full sus. It felt heavy, sluggish and vague. Took the fun out of riding. I don't think being fit standing up on a singlespeed translated seamlessly into jumping on a geared bike either. Always took a good 2-3 weeks riding the trail bike before it felt like I was getting back into the swing of things.
Now I've got a gravel bike and could see a similar situation arising if I rode it exclusively for ages. However I don't see myself using it for every ride like with the rigid. So I wouldn't expect to get back into the Flare Max straight away. Give it some time, and maybe a diet...
You can do that on an MTB too. A short-travel 29″ XC bike with semi-slicks would be my choice.
Exactly. An MTB doesn't have to be a 160mm full sus with big knobbly tyres.
I find the difference in speed between a hardtail XC bike with fast XC tyres on it and a gravel bike with 40-45c tyres on it pretty small and to me it is just down to firstly what style of bike I enjoy riding most and secondly the ratio of road/versus off road.
Not sure what the Quoich option is though.
I had a spare day a couple years back, and set out from Braemar - up towards Linn of Quoich, then carried on heading for Bein a Bhuird then over the main slug track, and descend into Glen Builg, it's a lovely little track, off and on, then hug the river plain for a while, then I headed up Cullardoch. It's not a looong climb in absolute terms but it can be a bit loose, and granny ring slog.
it can be a bit loose, and granny ring slog
Better not take the MTB then, it doesn't even have a granny ring 🙂
I don’t think being fit standing up on a singlespeed translated seamlessly into jumping on a geared bike either
I think there is something in this. Not singlespeed (I'm not mad 🙂 ) but different types of fitness. Like a few people I found I did more riding during lockdown. All loops from home on the gravel bike. I saw the average speed creeping up and expected to notice that extra fitness when I jumped back on the MTB but I think it was a different type of fitness and I'd actually lost in some areas (like arm strength).
Give it some time, and maybe a diet
I have been looking at some SIDs recently 🙂 Never really got on with my 130mm Pike. I don't think there is anything wrong with the fork and it's great on the bigger hits, but I can't get the small bump stuff to be anywhere near where I'd like it to be. Switching to a 120mm Sid would drop a bit of weight and tighten up the steering a bit. But I'd need to be sure that I was still going to ride it and not just become a full time gravel bore first.
I always swore the one bike I'd always have would be some flavour of MTB HT whatever else was in the shed, I've been without a HT for over a year now and I've not missed it...
But that's because my Gravel bike sort of made it redundant, it just seems to cover distance, especially mixed on/off road routes from the door faster, and that whole lack of suspension with skinnier bars and tyres thing actually appeals to me, because it is very reminiscent of my first couple of MTBs back in the early 90s. It probably takes an odd mindset to actually prefer something that's "less good" offroad specifically for that reason...
If winch, plummet and "gnarr" are on the menu then I will use my Stumpy 29er, a mid travel bouncer which I have no great urge to udgrade or replace now, it is perfectly adequate. For riding from the doorstep it's either the gravel bike or the road bike, very seldom the MTB now...
What I can't understand though is why people keep asking to be 'convinced' about gravel bikes.
If you can't see past a HT MTB, then use that. Stupid curly bared skinny, tyred bikes either appeal or they don't, it's not worth dwelling on just because you feel like a fashion is passing you by or something...
There's a whole lot of gray between the black and white of road bike and mong travel max full suss.
Gravel bike comes in at maybe 3 out of 10, with a 29er rigid XC at maybe 4, with some travel a 5/10. On the kind of trails you've pictured I'd go for the 5 out of 10, you've gone for the 3.
The point being, labelling one "gravel" and one "mountain" ignores that they're all bikes on a spectrum of gnarr.
You, like myself, are also getting older...! Enjoy the bike you like on the trails you like.
Well said and this sums it up very well "Enjoy the bike you like on the trails you like."
Nothing has ruined anything - range of bikes is better than ever and picking one over the other doesn't mean the other is ruined.
I started as a roadie, 30 years ago, but if you think drivers are bad now then you should have been around then - less of them but some utter headcases.
So one day while whiling away time on a cricket tour I was browsing shops in Bath and saw these new fat tyred MTB's. I bought one on the spot (OK, as soon as I got back from tour) and became a MTBer.
My first (a Diamondback Sorrento) was a heavy as ****, fully rigid, narrow barred, crap braked beast and I loved it. I rode it up lanes, through farmyards, along bridleways and if I had to characterise it it would be 'I wonder what's over that next hill'. It essentially was gravel biking, but I thought it was offroading.
Gradually I got sucked in by suspension, (not suspenders, I was already into them) and full suspension, and trail centres, and knee pads, and.... and I forgot about gravel.
2 things happened. I got older, and I bounce less well. And I changed jobs that gave me a rideable commute. I started riding my HT 29er, then i thought that a cross bike would be better - whip along the roads in the am, take the long route back over the ranges. I enjoyed both, so bought a road bike to enable the whipping along, and the cross bike has stayed for other duties. Mainly riding it up lanes, through farmyards, along bridleways and if I had to characterise it it would be 'I wonder what's over that next hill'.
It's essentially the same riding, as it was 25 years ago. It's still fully rigid, the bars are still narrow but a slightly different shape, but instead of being a beast, it's carbon framed. Oh, and the brakes - to stop I no longer need to phone in advance, now I have disc brakes.
Lots of people enjoy a wide variety of cycling and one of the great pleasures is the variety of niches. I agree with the posts about pre late 1990s MTB being much like gravel seems to be today.
Gravel, off-road touring and less extreme MTB riding all look similar and your needs could be met with a confusing variety of bike styles for the same sort of riding. But beware the assumption that a gravel bike can meet a wide variety of needs.
I've settled on a very XC carbon MTB, a gravel "all road" bike and a racey steel roadie. There's arguably some overlap between the gravel bike and each of the others but, in practice, I find they do very different things.
I agree with the posts about pre late 1990s MTB being much like gravel seems to be today.
Depends. We used to go to the local forest and ride the descents as fast as we could, and look for the crazy steep stuff. That was the direct ancestor of the gnar core riders we see today. But some of us also did the long days out in the wilderness.
That's why I have a long travel gnar bike as well as a rigid 29er 🙂
