I have a gravel bike that is used for utility and turbo duties. I'd like to upgrade from 9 to 10 speed as cost effectively as possible, mainly to save hassle of cassette swaps on the direct drive turbo*
(*Wife has Tiagra 10 speed, I have 9 speed, don't want another bike to sit on the turbo as it's more to store.)
Currently on 9 speed SORA with cable brakes.
I'd like to go to 10 speed Tiagra with hydro brakes.
A full groupset is £450, then I'd need a braze on to band adaptor and a post mount caliper for the front (£53) putting it at over £500.
Can I get away with just a lever and caliper upgrade and new chain and cassette? i.e. Run 10 speed with 9 speed mechs and chainset? This would be half the price.
I believe 9 speed and 10 speed road use the same (1.7) cable pull ratio so rear mech OK. I don't know about front mech.
I think the crank is not officially supported but "one" difference is OK (10 speed chain on 9 speed chainrings).
Any other suggestions welcome!
If it's just for the turbo, a Zwift cog for about £50 might be the easiest answer
Just watch it with Tiagra 10 speed as it has it's own pull ratio and not compatible with other shifters/mechs. E.g. you have to match shifters and mech - you can't go fitting a 105 rear mech at a later date.
Zwift cog is definitely the cheapest option for turbo. I looked at it, we use Rouvy on an Apple TV and couldn't work out the compatibility since we don't use Zwift. If anyone can confirm that would be great.
I also quite like the immersive/intuitive way to use standard bike controls for shifting - and would like to upgrade my bike to gravel.
I could be wrong, but I think you have to go all in on Tiagra as it has a weird cable pull ratio compared to other Shimano stuff.
I think GRX and 105 might be more cross compatible (check eBay for good deals on used and new take-offs).
EDIT: Fossy beat me to to it.
Just watch it with Tiagra 10 speed as it has it's own pull ratio and not compatible with other shifters/mechs. E.g. you have to match shifters and mech - you can't go fitting a 105 rear mech at a later date.
Ah, thanks! Looks like Tiagra does indeed use a different pull ratio to other 10 speed, and therefore 9 speed, groups.
Looks like my options are a Zwift cog (with potential compatibility/support issues) or a full group (with the benefit of a brake upgrade at the same time).
post mount caliper for the front (£53)
Quick google suggests you can get post mount to flat mount adapters on eBay for less than a tenner. I've bought cheap adapters before and not been concerned that they are poor quality/dangerous.
Aliexpress might make the full groupset upgrade more palatable as the groupsets are about £300. I'd say it's worth spending a little more on GRX as the brifters are a better shape for off road use. I've used Anrancee a few times, delivery takes 3-4 weeks and I've yet to pay anything over the aliexpress price.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007417712830.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007996135142.html
I have been looking at doing something a bit similar and found Vinted to have a lot of Tiagra (shifters and brakes) for really cheap. Its used stuff but flat mount calipers for £10 etc. Worth a look. You may be lucky with bargains
post mount caliper for the front (£53)
Quick google suggests you can get post mount to flat mount adapters on eBay for less than a tenner. I've bought cheap adapters before and not been concerned that they are poor quality/dangerous.
From what I read on the adaptors, the post to flat adaptor is also +20mm. My forks have a direct post mount, and a 160mm rotor already.
However this looks promising - 160 post to 160 flat for a few pence. Would be great if it works.
I don't think I'd be investing too much in 10spd tech these days.
Is the wanting to go hydraulic a must have or a nice to have? Assuming you have cable discs or hybrids just now.
I think I'd be just finding a pair of cable brake 105 10spd levers 2nd hand and new rear mech if you actually needed to after doing your homework on pull ratios.
It would achieve your objective of having the same gear ratio as your other half for the turbo with the minimum of fuss around sorting brake mounts adapters etc
I have 2 hydro flat mount calipers that you can have - they are tektro but exactly the same inc. pads as shimano. Message me if you want them. £20 for the pair posted
I don't think I'd be investing too much in 10spd tech these days.
Indeed. For a brief minute I did consider 2 new matching 12 speed gravel groupsets! 🙂
Is the wanting to go hydraulic a must have or a nice to have? Assuming you have cable discs or hybrids just now.
A brake upgrade would help justify the whole spend and faff.
I've got TRP Spyre and compressionless outer on 160 rotors but brakes are still very poor.
I think I'd be just finding a pair of cable brake 105 10spd levers 2nd hand and new rear mech if you actually needed to after doing your homework on pull ratios.
It seems SORA matches 105 for pull ratio.
Assuming the 10 speed chain works OK on 9 speed cranks, I'd just need levers, a new chain and cassette so could be a good option.
IIRC, nine speed MTB mechs work with 10 speed road shifters (I'll let you do the googling).
I've got TRP Spyre and compressionless outer on 160 rotors but brakes are still very poor.
I'm running BB7s pulled by Microshift levers and they're on a par with hydraulics. A Spyre/Sora combo I used once were shockingly bad. All cable brakes (and, I suspect, caliper/lever compatibilities) are not equal. I'd certainly consider Microshift's range - lots of options for mix'n'match.
Here you go. Note the comment in the shifter description re: brake actuation.
https://www.microshift.com/products/groups/sword/#down
(Not the product I'm using, the SB-M110 levers so my monstercross, MTB and commuter are all completely cross-compatible).
I've upgraded my 9 speed Sora equipped bike to 10 speed using a mix of RS-405 shifters, (Tiagra 4700 non series equivelant, which has the same cable pull as GRX 10 and 11 speed, as well as 11 speed 105 and Utegra), Tiagra rear 4700 rear mech, chain and cassette, GRX front mech and chainset and MT400 calipers.
The shifters and rear mech came up locally used and cheap, they originally had flat mount calipers but one was leaking and my frame is IS mount. I already had post mount calipers with the Sora 9 speed setup. The Shimano post mount mountain bike calipers work fine with the drop bar levers as I believe the pistons are the same size. So you could go with Tiagra 4700 shifters and rear mech, 105 or Ultegra 11 speed shifters and rear mech, or GRX and fit post mount mountain bike calipers.
I only changed the chainset and front mech to GRX as I wanted lower gearing, so you may not need to change that. The GRX chainline is spaced out more than standard road, so I got the GRX to fit that. Otherwise I would have stuck with the Sora front mech.
It worked for me and gave me more powerful brakes and lower gears, but it was a bit of a faff piecing it all together. If I was doing it again and could afford it I'd probably buy an off the shelf 11 speed GRX, Cues or 105 setup, and change the calipers to post mount. But I didn't want to spend too much on an infrequently ridden 11 year old bike.
Yes you can get Sora mechs to play on 10 speed but not easily with hydraulic brakes you'll either want 4600 (not 4700! tiagra) 5700 (105 10 speed) or 6700 (Ultegra 10speed) as they're basically the last options 2:1 cable pull 10 speed levers.
Should be able to score them on eBay if you shop about, but you'll still be stuck on mechanical Disc brakes.
I suppose the other option is friction shifters, they don't care how many sprockets you have on your cassette...
IMO/IME, it's not really worth the bother for an extra click on the trainer, but if your going to 4700 or RX400 the better braking might justify the faff...
IMO/IME, it's not really worth the bother for an extra click on the trainer,
It's not the extra click as such, I just want the same # of clicks as the other bike that goes on the turbo.
Better brakes would be nice, so looking at all the faff, I'm leaning towards a full group from an eBay seller. It'll cost a bit more than a lever/chain/cassette change but I'll have a full group to sell and no compatibility issues.
9 speed mountain bike works with old 10 speed tiagra but not new and by new I mean for about 12 years. New has same pull as 11 speed road
I don't like unresolved threads so a quick follow up for anyone interested (it's not that interesting!)
Some good suggestions above but all lead to a degree of faff or compromise.
I ended up going for a full Tiagra 10 speed groupset from a Chinese seller on eBay. It was delivered in about a week, no import charges, all genuine and brand new.
Fork is 160 post mount so I got a BR-RS785 caliper as the post to flat adaptor is +20 and I don't want a 180 rotor.
Other bits I needed were a mech band for the braze on mech, a bargain road bike gear set from Biketart and a chain (Decathlon, made by KMC, £12.99) plus a couple of inserts/olives.
I also decided to go for some Easton EA 50 AX bars from Merlin and Halo bolt up skewers to replace the QRs (sleeker and less nickable).
I got it all done in a couple of hours, very happy with the upgrade. The brakes are superb.
I wacked it straight on the turbo, then took it out for a 20+ mile Peak ride as a break in, and "gravel" isn't as awful as I thought it was (it's still the unhappy middle to me - not as fast as road, not as fun as MTB!). Also razzed back across town from the garage this morning.
Job done.