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I think what you are saying is “I’ll drop down to just a gravel bike while the kids really need me and are taking up time and energy “.
Being able to ride from home makes total sense in the circumstances
At some point in the future the kids will be older and things will change.
Currently on holiday with a FS mtb and gravel bike. The gravel bike was brought along so that when my 25 year old son stayed for a few days we could ride together
At some point in the future the kids will be older and things will change.
^^Very much this^^
6 years ago when I boarded the gravel hype train I did vow to maintain an MTB and I have done and that one MTB has seen a bit of use throughout the last half decade. Now the kids are both in double digits and have MTBs of their own my opportunities to use my MTB are increasing slowly.
My gravel bike is still the most frequently used bike, and the most versatile (riding from the door). And if I was in the position of only being able to own/store one bike at a time it would probably have been some flavour of Gravel bike based on the last few years. But I'm sure now the kids are older, and you never truly fall out of love with MTBing, if I were currently the owner of a single gravel bike I'd be mulling over chopping it in for MTB...
Would never give up MTB for gravel. Road yes I have given up for gravel though.
As above really . I live pretty close to the Tweed valley so have a Trek Slash . Also my home trails are tame and I like bike packing so have a Trek checkpoint. I always had 3 bikes which alternated between full sus, hardtail and road . or full sus ,cx and road (you get the picture). I now feel as getting older i'd rather have a slower road bike than can also do my local mtb routes hence the gravel bike.
Do feel sometimes i'd like a long travel hardtail that could take bags for cairngorms bike packing but It's overkill. My next bike will be a Trek rail but will have to keep the slash for when the motor goes. 🙂
I’ve tried gravel bikes a few times and always gone back to some form of MTB. At the end of the day it’s all marketing bollocks and you can ride any bike anywhere. Just need to decide where your priorities lie.
I just prefer the MTB riding position and find the geometry on gravel and road bikes more limiting for an all rounder. Currently on a Stooge Dirtbomb. Anything remotely off the beaten track is way comfier and loads more fun than it was on an NS RAG+ (destroyed derailleur and bent wheel) or the Genesis Fugio (just meh!). The whole speed on the road thing always comes up on here and honestly, even with 3” tyres, it isn’t that much slower and is a much more relaxed and fun place to be. The only place it really falls down is chunky, rocky proper off road where I miss having a suspension fork
At the end of the day it’s all marketing bollocks and you can ride any bike anywhere
Well yeah, but it's not bollocks, you wouldn't ride your 160mm gnarpoon round 120km of fast gravel tracks would you? Horses for courses.
And on that note, I was very glad I still have a nice fast 29er lurking at the back of the garage, I needed soft and spikey treads today for the cut up, partially frozen, partially slush snow. Would not have been half as much fun on the gravel bike 😎
Personally speaking I think a gravel bike and a FS trail MTB is about the best two bike combo you can have which will cover 90% of UK riding bases so long as you aren't into anything weird like trials.
Even better with a couple of different sets of wheels for each (gravel/road and xc/enduro).
I'm lucky enough to have lots of local trails with lots of variety and also lucky enough to have a few bikes.
In terms of time spent, over the last year I'd say it was about
5% gravel bike with road tyres
27.5% Gravel
12.5% Singlespeed hardtail
25% Trail/enduro mtb
30% enduro Ebike
Also worthy to mention is that "gravel bike" means lots of different things. It goes from 35 semi slick tyres with almost road like gearing to 29x2.0 or bigger tires with Mtb gearing. The first will nearly as fast as a road bike, the second nearly as capable as a rigid MTB.
No wonder people report so many different experiences and use cases under the "gravel bike" umbrella
Another option which works for me is a rigid mountain bike. Unless I’m on multi day trip I tend to ride mainly locally now as I don’t want to drive to ride and it’s a good for ‘natural trails’ as well as bit of road on one hand and trail centres on the other.
I got a gravel bike three years ago, and for two and a half years rode little else. A few months back I bought a Whippet with rigid forks, and I've been having good fun with it - I'd kind of forgotten that two inch tyres and wide handlebars make such a difference.
I'm planning to make the gravel a little less gravel-y this year, mostly by switching to road-friendly tyres, perhaps Vittoria Revolutions as I've had those before and liked them. I'm happy with the flared bars (Ritchey Beacons), so I'm going to end up with a gravelly road bike and a MTB that's good on the road 🙂
Well yeah, but it’s not bollocks, you wouldn’t ride your 160mm gnarpoon round 120km of fast gravel tracks would you? Horses for courses.
But you could though and as I also said, it depends on where your priorities lie. For me it’s staying away from roads as much as possible. They’re a necessary evil to get to fun. I’ve had a few gravel bikes and none of them were as capable or as fast as a 29er, even on mild fire road or canal towpath. Also it is pretty much bollocks, most marketing is.
Also it is pretty much bollocks, most marketing is.
I’m old enough to remember slightly thinking that about ‘all terrain bikes’, or ‘ATBs’ as they were branded at the time. So I bought one anyway 🥳. And then I heard about these even more expensive ATBs coming on the market, except now they were named ‘mountain bikes’, or ‘MTBs’. And by then Imwas entirely convinced of mucho marketing bolx. So I bought one anyway 🥳 (and then exchanged it for another, and another, 19 times...) And then I heard about these ‘29er’ things coming on the market…
Mostlyly road riding where I am in a mountainous region. My HT with 160mm fork, limited tooth chainring and 37mm (inner) rims can't keep up with the group's of riders I can get out with. And I'm getting on so need something for fitness from my door.
So, I've just bought my first road bike since I was 15yo. Sub 10kg CF. European brand frame with Taiwanese bits on it. £219. No reason to sell one bike to buy another. Having to buy some more clipless shoes as the previous ones numb my toes.
It's all still riding, and we learned a few things about fitness levels during covid.
I’ve had a few gravel bikes and none of them were as capable or as fast as a 29er, even on mild fire road or canal towpath.
Now that is bollocks. On a mild fire road a gravel bike will always be faster than a 29er just from aerodynamics alone. You are talking about fast, so that is presumably in the 18mph+ range and a gravel, or cross, bike is just faster.
As for this
Road is for fitness,
Gravel is for exploring/trekking,
MTB is for fun!
I have fun riding a CX bike everywhere (road, gravel, single track) and I ride for fitness and never explore/trek so can't really make such blanket comments.
What does ‘bad on the road’ mean? 5mph slower? You can ride a HT on road/gravel (whatever that is…) but you can’t (yes ,sorry, it’s true) ride a gravel bike on many MTB trails. GBs are inherently more limited, which is fine.
Bad on the road means not as good as a gravel bike, just as a gravel bike won't be as good as a hard tail off road and the hard tail will not be as good as the 170mm full suss downhill. Pretty simple really.
Now that is bollocks. On a mild fire road a gravel bike will always be faster than a 29er just from aerodynamics alone. You are talking about fast, so that is presumably in the 18mph+ range and a gravel, or cross, bike is just faster.
Nope, talking from experience. NS RAG+ and Genesis Fugio both slower than a Stif Morf and 27.5 Cotic Soul. I know this because I have the rides saved on my phone. Probably me just feeling comfier on the latter style of bike so prepared to go faster, up to around mid to high 20’s mph.
The gravel bikes just felt unstable. The MTB’s planted. All on the fire road that parallels part of the old DH course in Macc Forest.
The gravel bikes just felt unstable. The MTB’s planted. All on the fire road that parallels part of the old DH course in Macc Forest.
Macc forest used to be my old stomping ground and although it's been many many years since I've been down it, I used to descend that fire road regularly (late 1990s!!!).
I did go up it last year, though.
I'm not surprised an mtb is faster and a gravel bike more nervous down there. It's very very fast with some tight ish bends.
So quite 'technical' in the way roadies describe twisty turny descents on narrow roads.
On a gravel bike going full pelt you'd be way beyond the handling/braking envelope on the bends IMO.
A speed comparison in the gravel bike's favour would be on a more gradual fire road with no tight bends.
TBH I don't blame you. Riding around locally isn't super MTB focused and I have found myself moving towards rigid and gravel projects in recent years. Ofcourse the surrey hills are still great and when you can get out there it's worth it 100x. So no I wouldn't give up the MTB as you never know and you wouldn't want to be without one if something came up.
Having said that if you are looking to get rid of stuff I can always come swoop round and pick it up 😉
Also worthy to mention is that “gravel bike” means lots of different things. It goes from 35 semi slick tyres with almost road like gearing to 29×2.0 or bigger tires with Mtb gearing. The first will nearly as fast as a road bike, the second nearly as capable as a rigid MTB.
No wonder people report so many different experiences and use cases under the “gravel bike” umbrella
This! It's such a varied drop bar category. You've got:
1) 30-40mm tyres - light off road to slightly gnarly
2) 40-50mm tyres - more gnarly and can cope wit a lot of terrain
3) 50-60mm tyres - "monster cross" for almost everything with extra comfort/grip/stability
I know some people will say they're happy doing everything on 38s, and with skills and good legs (and good bones/joints) you can (except perhaps rock gardens), but some like bigger tyres for the reasons in #3
Gravel bike + mountain bike covers pretty much all types of riding
I used to think that. But came to believe instead that Audax/touring bike + MTB cover bases better unless you really do typically ride much more gravel than tarmac.
I tend to prefer my MTB on all types of off-road and unsurfaced road. And I prefer my touring bike on all types of surfaced road than I did the gravel bike.
(Edit) I know so-called ‘gravel’ is a wide and varied descriptor of bikes from more or less roadie to cyclocross thru ruffty touring type bikes and then onto some with clearance for monstercross.
So my touring/audax bike might also be matched (or even beaten) by a very nice (similarly handbuilt steel) gravel frame which would probably fit a wider choice of wheels + tyres. But I do really like the wide difference between the audax/touring bike and the MTB, yet still all bases covered.
Whether a gravel bike is faster than a hard tail 29er is completely dependant on the terrain your taking it on
Down a disused railway or hard pack forest track its likely to be quicker. On super technical terrain it’s going to be slower.
I rode my after work MTB route which is a mixture of technical terrain, lanes and fire road actually some it in Macc forest on my gravel bike not long ago. Time wise it was about the same as it would take on my 29e but I was absolutely battered by the end of it. Depending on your preference that maybe part of the appeal of gravel riding. I enjoy taking a spoon to a knife fight but if it was your only bike it could get wearing.
Use an old Cannondale 29er SL 2015 to ride during the winter and a Whyte Friston Gravel bike when the tracks are drier. Broke a couple of ribs at Kildale and realised I don’t bounce as well as I used to. It was a gradual progression really. I ride from the door most days so the gravel bike makes sense. It allows me to get to the tracks faster and cover more ground.
Whether a gravel bike is faster than a hard tail 29er is completely dependant on the terrain your taking it on
Obviously. The use case was "mild fire road or canal towpath". The terrain where I will be riding at 18mph+ and the aerodynamics of the gravel bike will be the main advantage.
If your gravel bike is feeling "unstable" you are not riding on terrain where the gravel bike will be faster. I regularly ride on single track where an MTB is faster than my 33c tyred cross bike which is less stable, but that was not what we were talking about.
Hate to break it to you but I’m also faster on my local towpaths on a HT too. On the gravel bikes I’d get slowed down by the uneven crappy surface, roots, dips etc and that just saps energy. Whereas I’d barely notice them on the HT. Actually prefer riding that type of surface on the Stooge to anything else. A bit slower but about a million times more comfortable and fun.
Each to their own though. Just giving my opinions for the OP. My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces. Perhaps it’s not the same for you. Monster cross may be different. How about a drop bar bike that has clearance for MTB tyres and run two sets of wheels?
My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces.
I was all set to disagree with you, but then thought back to a few rides I've done over the last couple of years and am beginning to wonder! Perhaps a world first of someone changing their mind on the internet 😁
My experiences are skewed a bit as I'll take my gravelised Superfly out on longer gravel rides that I think might merit disc brakes and/or suspension, but for those rides I will then try and omit as much tarmac as possible. Overall though of the longer gravel rides I've done, the fastest average speeds have been on my 29er with funky bars and either gravel tyres or very fast semi-slicks 29er tyres.
I think the problem for me is perception of speed then, as the Superfly doesn't feel as fast and I still haven't got the position dialed for longer pedalling efforts (e.g. when you might want to tuck in and time trial along, which I usually quite enjoy). Maybe I should put the pop-loc back on the forks and upgrade the wheels, see how it feels. Or just buy a Salsa Cutthroat 😎
OP - have you got a nice light 29er you can stick some slicks on?
My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces.
What you want is a bike that's bars flatten and tyres widen once you've finished the 12 mile road section to get to where you want to explore.
Am possibly the odd one out because for me
Road/gravel/MTB are all for fitness and exploring and touring and trekking and transport and therapy and fettling and most of all fun*
Never been into cycling as a competitive sport but have lived and breathed cycling and bikes for all of the above purposes. Sometimes I’ve only had one bike and so the choice was to ride that. And (maybe not coincidentally) I see to remember enjoying those times more than when juggling and maintaining (say) seven different bikes. Limitations can bring simplicity and focus.
Spork to a bunfight.
Currently have a road tourer and 29er and so am spoiled for choice as either ride just fine from the door and I’d be hard pressed to complain. My favourite ‘only bike’ probably was a chromo monster-cross, (and before that was a chromo ATB back in the day)
*Unless you happen to ride a Pashley PDQ. The one bike purchase/experiment that I immediately upon riding then wanted to melt for scrap. OP, if you ever get the unlikely chance to ride one of those then doing so will possibly confer upon you a very good chance of being happy forever with riding whatever isn’t a PDQ. 🙂
Ride to live ride, the rest is gravy!
My personal experience is that a HT or rigid beats a gravel bike on the majority of off road surfaces. Perhaps it’s not the same for you.
Again, the use case was not the majority of off road surfaces, it was “mild fire road or canal towpath” where I am riding at 18+ mph and it is simply just faster.
Going down bumpy single track the gravel bike will be slower.
I ride 30% road, 65% gravel and 5% singletrack. To me that is a gravel bike (or CX bike because they are better), to you it may be an MTB
In the Gravel Vs 29er weigh-up bigger tyres certainly beats aero at some point and I'd say the tipping point is as much about the rider and the duration as any bike science stuff. Aero's only influential if you can hold that position and offset the low rolling efficiency of small tyres off-road.
ie yes I can hoon it all-out along a byway in the drops on a gravel bike for a short while but I'll be beat up soon enough and I'll not be carrying speed as easily as the 29er will allow. It's not sustainable if you're interested in riding more than an hour or two. For a longer ride or riding day after day where fatigue and ergonomic efficiency comes into it the 29er rules off-road.
I suppose then we're into drops on a 29er as a compromise but that's really into specialist bikes and personal preferences.
“mild fire road or canal towpath” where I am riding at 18+ mph and it is simply just faster.
For not very long at that pace, is my point. It's an outlier example like a CX race vs the Tour Divide at the other end. It maybe faster for you during your relatively short rides but it's not an example of terrain, but time on that terrain.
For me my local riding is more entertaining on my gravel bike (I live in Lincoln, it's pretty flat but there's a pretty decent network of bridleways and paths accessible 25m from the end of my driveway)
I have 3 and 5 year old kids so most of my riding is lunchtime spins from home with the occasional weekend pass (normally when the wife has something lined up for her and the kids to do with the in-laws)
I couldn't give up MTBing though, I just enjoy it too much when I do get the chance to get out. I've honed in on a pretty good two bike garage for me, my gravel bike with a second set of wheels fitted with 32mm road tyres and my 150/140 29er trail bike. The MTB does double duty as school transport occasionally.
If I could absolutely only have one bike, it would have drop bars and big gearing to suit the local riding (and I'd make do with hiring DH bikes for uplift days!)
In the Gravel Vs 29er weigh-up bigger tyres certainly beats aero at some point and I’d say the tipping point is as much about the rider and the duration as any bike science stuff.
jameso has it.
I have a rigid 29er and gravel bike with 40mm - I like that area in the middle so I have an off-roady road bike and a roady off-road bike.
My commute to work is about 20 minutes, nearly all along a canal path of variable quality. A little is concreted, most is sort of muddy gravel, some is roots and wet mud (flooded at the moment - that's fun!). I generally do it about 2 minutes quicker on the gravel bike, but that's because it's a short enough ride to go for it. If it was a 40 minute ride I reckon the 29er would be faster.
What you want is a bike that’s bars flatten ... once you’ve finished the 12 mile road section to get to where you want to explore.
Oh yes! This must be possible! Somebody make it and take my money!
Wasn't there some rule of thumb about the tipping point at which aero really mattered? Am sure it was either 17km/h or 17mph.
My fastest sort-of gravel ride was actually on my 29er but had a healthy proportion of tarmac in between hilly gravel sections, but I guess if I'm tucked down on bar ends on the 29er then perhaps I'm not actually much less aero? By a factor of bigger gap at fork crown and 30mm wider Q-Factor?
Funnily enough one of my few remaining KOMs is a relatively good gravel section near Edinburgh on my 29er, but I only claimed it due to a comedy tailwind. I don't think it would have been safe hauling along through all those dried out puddles on the gravel bike 😂
My stats prove to me that the total ride time on my gravel bike is about 25% faster than the exact same ride on a HT.
But then that's on 35mm gravel tyres vs 2.35in knobbly tyres on forest tracks that are about as technical as a towpath.
Maybe those times might be a bit closer if the gravel bike was one of these more recent "MTBs with drop bars" with 2.1in chunkier 650b tyres.
Interesting title. My gravel bike is more capable off-road than any of the mtbs I owned BITD, so I don't really see it as giving up mtb, just using a different bike for the same purpose. With the huge advantage of being much better on-road, opening up more rides from the door.
But then that’s on 35mm gravel tyres vs 2.35in knobbly tyres on forest tracks that are about as technical as a towpath.
[inner child] it's Boooring though. [/inner child]
Wasn’t there some rule of thumb about the tipping point at which aero really mattered? Am sure it was either 17km/h or 17mph.
12mph if I remember Cervelo's presentation on it. Hence them saying the added weight of aerobars on the TdF Alpe d'Huez TT were a gain overall as rider speeds were high enough.
If the terrain is the sort where you need the bigger tyres to maintain rolling efficiency and you can average over 12mph and gain from aero.. there are some longer distance records waiting to be challenged : )
Again, the use case was not the majority of off road surfaces, it was “mild fire road or canal towpath” where I am riding at 18+ mph and it is simply just faster.
Again, not for me. The fire roads are mild, just steep and with lots of twists and turns. The towpath is a towpath. As I said you might be quicker on a gravel bike, I’m quicker on a HT. Just giving the OP opinions.
My gravel bike is more capable off-road than any of the mtbs I owned
Genuinely interested to know what MTB’s and gravel bikes you’ve owned. I killed a rear wheel and rear mech trying to ride a gravel bike on proper off road tracks.
Most of the rides from my door that feature major sections of tow path or gravel path I'm quicker on my gravel bike than a HT but who cares? Is it a race? If I have 3 hours to ride and the bike I'm riding is quicker I go further and if the bike I'm riding is slower then I don't go as far but I'll be having happy fun bike time for roughly three hours regardless of what bike I'm on.