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Strict liability is the rule in sports doping. Hence the failed test means he is guilty of doping. Its really that simple. Baxter lost his bronze medal for what was clearly an accidental ingestion of a banned substance in tiny amounts that could not possibly have affected his results. Others have as well.
It has to be this way to stop the contadors getting away with doping using bullshine excuses.
and if a lab has messed up the test?
and if a lab has messed up the test?
They process B samples fairly quickly don't they? Or do you mean they got it wrong twice?
The UCI's methodology is rubbish though. Froome gets most of the flak but it's the UCI's glacial speed at sorting it out that should be flamed. People should direct their gaze at the real issue.
Meanwhile, an innocent athlete loses the chance to participate while at his peak, because (for example) a lab **** up the test method.
That is your view, it’s not one supported by the majority of organisational bodies in today’s environment.
Have you an example where your scenario has actually occurred? Or is is hypothetical?
It’s unusual for him to go off on one, so I’m left wondering why and what was the motivation
Shit or bust? He has no interest in a mere podium position and only two days in which to pull back a huge deficit if he wants to win. It also appears he has spent a fair bit of time in the Sestriere area training and knows Finestre quite well. Dumoulin and Yates were both in decline having knocked spots off each other for two weeks.
I'm not a huge Froome fan, but that was a special ride. After all that expenditure of effort, today's stage could still offer up some interest.
+1 for what @slowoldman said ^^
Yates - while he's almost certainly going to be a GC contender in future years I don't think ever went into this expecting to win it. He's ridden smart (little bonus seconds here and there) knowing that he was going to have to ride the TT of his life to survive but I suspect there's a little bit of the old Thomas Voeckler about it - when TV was in yellow by virtue of ending up in the breakaway that got 30 minutes on the peloton) and he rode his heart out to stay in yellow day after day while the advantage was ruthlessly chipped away at by Lance and co. Took them about 10 days though!
I reckon the TT probably emptied him completely whereas for TD it'll have been a walk in the park.
Froome had a whole load of bad luck at the start which probably made him look worse than he actually was. That said, he's always been there or thereabouts in the GC and knows how to do the "reverse periodization" that @Kryton57 described a few posts above. Team GB do that on the track in Team Pursuit as it's become the only way to ride it. Start slow, finish stronger. Froome was forced into a more obvious position of that due to also recovering from his TT crash. It's amazing how shit he can look on a bike in technical situations (cobbles, tight TT courses) and still descend like a rocket. He took over a minute out of the chasers on the Finestre descent alone. And yes, he does know the descent very well, he's done a lot of training in and around Sestriere.
Great move though - I think people are only surprised by it because of the impression that Team Sky just sit there looking at their power meters which is actually not true. Today should be interesting - will TD accept 2nd place or try to attack? Realistically, barring disasters for them or miracles for the others, they're the only two in contention for the win. I'm wondering what happens in Rome if they're within a few seconds of each other, will it really be a ceremonial stage or will they be out to grab bonus seconds?
Yates understandably looked heart broken after the stage
How do I imbed video now?
Hence the failed test means he is guilty of doping
You can keep saying it but it wont make it true!
It’s not reverse periodisation though is it? Periodisation is making the workouts more like your A race the closer it becomes. Using the first two weeks of a stage race as prep for the third is surely the very definition of normal periodisation??
He’s just aimed the peak at week three 🤷🏻♂️
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/reverse-periodization.html
AA - it is true. strict liability for doping ie any adverse test is a doping fail.
The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.
It means that each athlete is strictly liable for the substances found in his or her bodily specimen, and that an anti-doping rule violation occurs whenever a prohibited substance (or its metabolites or markers) is found in bodily specimen, whether or not the athlete intentionally or unintentionally used a prohibited substance or was negligent or otherwise at fault.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-answers/strict-liability-in-anti-doping
There's some discussion now on EuroSport commentary as to exactly what George Bennett meant when he said that Froome "did a Landis".
There's some frantic backpedalling going on now in the Team Lotto Jumbo!
it is true. strict liability for doping ie any adverse test is a doping fail.
So how is he currently winning the giro?
I just saw that crazy legs. What a plonka to make a statement like that . Didn't he follow it up with "Ridiculous, he shouldn't be here"?
If you actually look at the Prohibited List, salbutamol is not a prohibited substance in all circumstances. Its presence at concentrations above the specified threshold (which is what Froome had) is an Adverse Analytical Finding and requires explanation. Froome has not committed an anti-doping rule violation according to the definition above.
You can argue this is legalistic pedantry but it is also the current rules.
I am actually a huge Froome fan, and that was a special ride. After all that expenditure of effort, today’s stage could still offer up some interest.
FIFM.
I’ve always been a great admirer of Froomidge, I remember his epic ride in the Vuelta all those years ago when in Barlowworld colours, you could tell back then that the guy had a very special talent.
Does Tom do a Froomidge today? Shit or Bust as you say ??
Exciting end to a very up and down Giro, for sure.
dpfr
The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves,through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.
My bold- he is in the process of trying to prove the abnormal result is due to legitimate use, therefore not guilty at this point
Ok we get it tj. You believe anyone who produces an AAR should be immediately suspended and branded a doper. Fair enough thats your take on it, i reckon it's a rubbish view but your entitled to it. But cycling doesn't share your view and that's all that matters. Why can't you just have your say and leave it at that ??
Have you an example where your scenario has actually occurred? Or is is hypothetical?
Hypothetical.
Just as it's currently hypothetical that Froome's AAF is because he overdosed on his allowed medication.
It should be being reviewed in private, why it was released I don't know. And why it is taking so long, don't know either.
guilty till proven innocent then.
Not really. It's akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
Reverse periodisation
Apologies but this phrase does my head in. Reverse periodisation suggests an athletes starts their preparation with race like efforts and then makes his training less like the race as it approaches. Which is nonsense, especially as he raced in the Tour if the Alps on the run in.
He did however seem to have planned to peak for the final week, much like the Tour last year.
whine all you like about the doping side of things...
fantastic days racing, the like of which is not seen often enough.
great work froome.
And what happened to the moving roadblock Sky employ?
you wait til todays stage
You can knock George Bennett all you like but he’s right, Froome did do a Landis. It’s not to say Froome isn’t clean but it was a Landis move, and it’s OK to say that IMO.
Not really. It’s akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
True..... except the penalty for a suspension in cycling and (in this case) being forced to miss a race that comes once a year, and which you can't necessarily enter every year based on other targets.... it's not like spending 2 weeks on gardening leave followed by an apology.
a rolling roadblock, or another killer move by froome whereby he puts another 5mins into Dumoulin.
I actually hope for the former, with froome clearly hurt by yesterdays effort and doing everything in his power to cling on... its only for one day, so hardly 'killing' the race
Not really. It’s akin to an employee being suspended pending the outcome of an investigation.
But if you were suspended from work, couldn't complete a major project, lost any chance of bonuses and it had a huge effect on your future career. Then the investigation showed you'd done nothing wrong, would that be right ??
Ta DPFR - thats a clarification I didn't know.
Yes I do believe all dopers should be banned immediately. Its a real shame UCI does not do this as it allows dopers to continue riding and thus further damages a sport known worldwide for doping.
No, but in that case I suspect you'd have a reasonable chance of claiming some form of recompense. They won't rerun the Giro because an AAF turns out to be wrong.
Aaaaaaaand....... Pinot pops.
But if you were suspended from work, couldn’t complete a major project, lost any chance of bonuses and it had a huge effect on your future career. Then the investigation showed you’d done nothing wrong, would that be right ??
Whereas when you win a bike race while under investigation you deprive other riders of glory, winnings, potentially lucrative contracts, etc.
Would Yates have blown up quite so badly yesterday if Sky hadn’t exploded the race, followed by Froome doing a Landis? We’ll never know. If - a big if - Froome is later DQ’d we do know that he had a massive effect on a race that he shouldn’t be involved in. The fault may not be with Froome, but with the length of time the investigation is allowed to continue.
Ooh, Pinot
Hard to watch Pinot at the moment ☹☹ God this is a tough sport !@@
Go on Nieve!
But if you were suspended from work, couldn’t complete a major project, lost any chance of bonuses and it had a huge effect on your future career. Then the investigation showed you’d done nothing wrong, would that be right ??
But the investigation does show that he's done something wrong.
"But if you were suspended from work, couldn’t complete a major project, lost any chance of bonuses and it had a huge effect on your future career. Then the investigation showed you’d done nothing wrong, would that be right ??
But the investigation does show that he’s done something wrong."
considerably easier to strip him of his titles and prize money to hand to second place than it is to rerun the races he missed while being proven innocent surely .... .
considerably easier to strip him of his titles and prize money to hand to second place than it is to rerun the races he missed while being proven innocent surely …. .
And once again turn those races into a farce.
call a truce, race is on...... buckle up.
TD on the gas and half the remaining peloton goes boom!
This is fantastic racing!
Froome's case is an Adverse Analytical Finding not a positive test - there's plenty of evidence out their that casts doubt on both the WADA Salbutamol test, plus whether it provides any performance benefits anyway and it's likely that lawyers will be able to demolish the UCI/WADA in court. From someone whose been following cycling since the early 80s and having to watch the impact of doping all through the 90s and early 00's where we saw reasonable 1-day riders turned into GT contenders.
come on Wout Poels....
Watching the GC battle it's easy to forget the Nieve is up the front and on course for a great stage win. Thrilling stuff.
Just as I was thinking it was detente, TD has hit the gas again.
Froome kicks TD in the balls.......