[Closed] Getting used to a new bike (Sovereign pics)

Glad it's working out for you (you should have got the 29er 'version' like me!).

That's really nice buzz - what did Rob and the lads think of it?

Love Evil Sovs - and all in white as well - superb.

Looks lovely.

Is this a troll?

Your forks should be slammed to 100mm or there abouts, as you can see from the pictures, the BB is way to high.

Also, Your rear wheel should be slammed (or there abouts) thats the beauty of these frames, dead short back end for super duper fun.

And that stem!!! 65mm is probably too long on this sort of frame, never mind 90mm

If your going to keep it like that, you may aswell have just kept the boardman.

smaller rotors

Less time typing more time riding is my advice 😉

when i built up my Dialled Alpine i initially found it too small, but then i was used to riding a relatively strechted out xc frame (Sanderson). now i wouldn't swap it for anything else.

maybe a set-back seat post rather than a straight line post to give you a bit more room? means you can lose the 90mm stem, too.

you'll get used to the feel of the brakes.

nice looking bike.

Brakes look tilted too far down/forward, which, combined with the (way too) long stem is going to be pitching/pulling your weight too far forward and make dropping your wrists difficult/uncomfortable/impossible. The cockpit just looks uncomfortable to me and may contribute to the feeling of being 'over' the bike that you're getting from the high BB.

Try adjusting the throw of the brake levers to reduce the mechanical advantage of your fingers. Any 'over-adjustment' of the brakes is going to mix with the positional problems from the first paragraph and create a few more.

Disagree about the 100mm travel, but otherwise davidtaylforth has it. Steepish HA, 50mm stem, 140mm forks, big powerful brakes and slammed chainstays make an Evil Sovereign lively, like it's supposed to be.

I've found that you need to be a pretty good rider to get much out of it though - get your elbows out and have a proper brawl with the thing. Still unequivocally the best hardcore hardtail there is.

"you may aswell have just kept the boardman"

No not really, it was quite battered. And while it was very comfortable and light it was quite bendy under pedalling and hard corners. Sovs are such lovely frames, I could not resist.

The fork runs at about 110 (40mm of sag) but the amount of compression damping is one-step back from lockout which is a bit silly (it's only Motion Control), and on steep climbs it gets wandery and tiring. The fork will go down 20mm with spacers (100 with 30mm of sag), and at 130 unsagged will climb with much less effort. Then I can knock back the damping which will feel less tiring on the arms.

I disagree about the wheelbase. Even at maximum it feel much shorter than other trail bikes I've had. At the shortest setting it felt so unstable on DH trails - I felt like I was falling off the back or diving off the front. That sort of length is probably more suited to dirt jumping or sommat.

"Brakes look tilted too far down/forward, which, combined with the (way too) long stem is going to be pitching/pulling your weight too far forward and make dropping your wrists "

Weirdly, I prefer to buck the trend for shallower brake lever angles - that seems to give me wrist ache and also to drop my elbows. I would go shallower on a longer bike.

I run a 65mm stem on my Giant and it's good because it's a bit higher up front. But the longer-lower stem position definitely improved trail handling.

Alrite then, a compromise, 120mm of travel. But whatevers on there at the moment looks all wrong. It looks like you've set it up like an xc bike and then put forks that are too long on it.

Never really understood the whole white wheels bars etc thing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's running a 90mm stem fixing?

" It looks like you've set it up like an xc bike and then put forks that are too long on it."

They are the forks I had, but I agree they will be much better with travel reduced. And I do ride cross country, sort of 😉

"Maybe I'm missing something, but what's running a 90mm stem fixing?"

Lower position and reducing twitchy steering.

IME The sov rides best with short chainstays, and short stem and forks about 120-130mm.

At least put the 60mm stem back on it! A 90mm stem is a crime on a sovereign.

I've had one for a while now and the short chainstays took a bit of getting used to. I have ridden jumps, downhill and xc on it and it is great at everything.

Stick with it and you'll get the hang of it sooner or later. Just remember to jump of everything and manual and wheelie as much as possible 😀

A 90mm stem is a crime on a sovereign

Oh get over yourself 😀

I tried 70, 100 and settled on 90.

At least put the 60mm stem back on it! A 90mm stem is a crime on a sovereign.

What a pile of shite, use whatever stem you feel comfortable with, bollox to 'fashion'. I use a 110 stem because it gives me the stretched out cockpit I like, who cares if I don't look 'rad' enough...

What a pile of shite, use whatever stem you feel comfortable with, bollox to 'fashion'.

that's all fine and well, however Sovereigns are generally setup for DH-type use (otherwise they're basically pointless), and a 90mm feels horrid coming down anything steep

What a pile of shite, use whatever stem you feel comfortable with, bollox to 'fashion'. I use a 110 stem because it gives me the stretched out cockpit I like, who cares if I don't look 'rad' enough...

Nothing to do with fashion. No point in buying the most hardcore hardtail frame and then turning it into an xc bike. Defeats the point of the frame.

The frame comes alive when you smash the hell out of it. It is pretty dull otherwise.

Oooh! This is a divisive one Buzz!

Weirdly, I prefer to buck the trend for shallower brake lever angles - that seems to give me wrist ache and also to drop my elbows. I would go shallower on a longer bike.

Your bar set-up looks like it's going to pull you off the front of the bike, even if the levers do feel comfortable. It's not the levers' fault that you tend to drop your elbows; it's yours for not remembering to keep them up - although trying to do so with your wrists pulled over the bar like that is also going to pull your head and chest down. You can get sore wrists from being too tense of not moving with the front wheel. I'd be interested to see your riding position(s); but as I imagine it from the first picture it's no surprise that you're having trouble with the bike.

who cares if I don't look 'rad' enough...

I care. You're ruining the image of our sport.

😆

however Sovereigns are generally setup for DH-type use

Really? It's a short bike with sharp steering, while DH bikes are long with slow steering.

It's wicked quick on singletrack. It would make a good 4X I reckon.

I dint realise this would become another boring analysis of riding style, but...

wrist pulled over the bar like that is also going to pull your head and chest down

I can assure you my hands, wrist and forearms in-line. I'm nicely balanced on my feet with only light bar pressure. My chest is low, head up and elbows out. We're not made from a cookie cutter. Different setups make different bikes fit different body shapes.

The problems I had were really to do with unfamiliarity. Today's ride was ace! Cant wait to try something proper steep now.

You're ruining the image of our sport.

Who's trolling now? Honestly, I'm proper ugly and would ruin your image whatever I was riding. I advise you never to ride with me 😉

When I had a Sov I used a 90mm stem on it.

But what do I know . . .

😉

But what do I know . . .

now you know that you ruined it 😉

what id try imho - Short stem. If cockpit feels too short ( although I think you'd get used to it) try sliding the saddle back on it's rails. Looks like there's plenty of scope there. Also personally i'd keep the rear short, as that's a main point really.Bars can also be rotated to change feel.

if it is set up right for you buzz

Then it is right.

tis a bit white though 😉

Firstly, that looks really nicely built. Well played. 🙂
Your mate who said to just ride it (and no other bike) for the next few weeks has already given you the best bit of advice. You need to give it a chance without dropping back into your old habits wrt positioning on the other bikes of yours.
On top of that, I'd say don't go changing too much too soon or you'll struggle to find your sweet spot for the set up. No-one above has given bad advice, but as its such a versatile bike (and we are all different body shapes) it can be set up many ways. I get the impression that DTF is a bit of a jumper, and tbh his suggestions would make a damn good jump bike.
Ive had my sov about 18 months now so I know what you're talking about on the stiffness and the back end doing what it wants. I've tried it with the drop-outs in and out, and with adjustable forks too to alter the front about too.
A couple of tips I'd advise: Whatever you do, do NOT cut the fork steerer down any more than you have - I've ended up really liking the ride with the forks on quite a low travel setting but this has been made so much better with a wodge of spacers under the stem keeping the bars up at a more "normal" sov height. It might not suit you in the end, but don't cut that option off yet.
Secondly, I know it is fairly short in the top-tube, but I found a shorter stem (I've gone from 70 down to 50 now) allowed me to get a bit more weight through the pedals and into the back wheel, and that seems to make that back wheel more controllable. Widened the bars too (think the're the same as yours now, RF725?) to help avoid feeling cramped, and slammed the seat right back for that bit of extra reach on the sit-down bits that you've looked for with the 90mm stem. Not sure if this would work with the fork too set too long, but it suits me.
I wouldn't bother changing anything about the brakes yet, if they still bother you in six months look at smaller rotors. If you can avoid changing them, put the cash saved towards a dropper post - it takes all standard ones 🙂
Most important, good luck and have fun.

I remember when I first got mine, I ran the stays almost slammed and the back was breaking loose in just about every corner! Also I tried wheeling and kept looping out.

It is quite a bit different to most other frames as it can be run in so many different ways. I stuck the chainstays in the middle to start with and after a bit, moved them back.

I'd agree with loum, little changes to the bike can make quite a big difference to the handling. It took me a while to get it setup perfectly. I tried different fork travel and chainstay lengths and eventually settled on about 125mm and the stays just a tad back from being slammed.

In order to get the most out of it, it takes a bit of fiddling and getting used to. Once you have it sorted, it becomes one of the most fun bikes you can ride.

Ta for the tips all.

People really do talk so much shite they end up believing it sometimes.

Buzz, cut the crap, get some effing bar ends on that mother*******

Ooo now you're talking. They'd have to be white tho!

Pics on body riding position please, out of the saddle a little vid would be even more awesome.

I will be amazed if you're in a good body position with this set-up.

This whole debate of stem length, have you based your decision on in or out of the saddle body position?

Glad you've seen the light and lowering your forks and deceasing sag.

I'll see if I can shoot some vid next weekend.

Evil actually recommend 140mm for the fork, I think.

The Sovereign is now slacker in the head angle and longer in the chainstays than originally, though it's still steep HA and short TT for what it is. I really don't understand the longer stem logic - yes it might make the steering feel slower but it doesn't add much stability and makes it harder to keep your weight centred over the BB on steeps. With the slack seat tube it'll be harder to get back behind the saddle with the saddle at uphill height - I'd have a dropper post or the saddle down much of the time. Slightly shortening and raising the spring rate on the fork makes sense - I think long fork hardtails feel much better balanced with the forks on the hard side and tyres on the soft side.

It does look good!

David is spot on.

You see loads of these frames set up all wrong and ridden badly round trail centres.

Soft tyres? FSS! No no no!

I don't think you need that much sag in those forks.

The most shocking thinhg about this thread is that the frame was £300 😯

Try as I might I can't really justify replacing my Alpine 🙁

Looks nice, sovs always look great. I wanted one for ages, got one and rode it once, hated it for pretty much the reasons in the first post. It was all just too much for me to be honest, felt like it was looking for opportunities to kill me all the time 🙂

I sold my frame 2nd hand for 300 glad I didn't hang on to it if thats all they are new now

How about upgrading to a dropper post sometime. I think that you would be surprised at what one would do for you 😉

Gordymac

The fact that they are a bit of a handful means that there's no shortage of second hand ones from people who 'can't really justify it' or some such. That's how I ended up with a second hand one in such brilliant condition.

I've also heard that the frame can be a bit dull and lifeless. Yes it is dull and lifeless if you are not thrashing the hell out of it!

How about upgrading to a dropper post sometime. I think that you would be surprised at what one would do for you

Despite it sounding like advising you to buy your way out of a wrong purchase, I very much agree with Gordymac. I bought a dropper post for my FS initially, but found that I didn't use it much, and that it added unnecessary wieght to an already heavy bike. I stuck it on my Sovereign when it came, and quickly realised it seemed vital for getting the most out of the frame. With such a short top-tube I noticed that if I didn't drop the saddle, while out of the saddle in techy stuff, it kept on getting in the way, and forced me to shift my weight even further forwards than I'd like. A dropper solved this (I know just dropping the saddle normally would achieve the same effect, but it becomes a pain very quickly, with all the stopping, dropping and raising).

Hi Buzz,

As I suggested when we rode a couple of weeks ago I think that an angle headset may help. Slackening the head angle will increase the front center (and thus wheelbase), slow the steering and lower the BB slightly.
[url] http://www.workscomponents.co.uk/works-components---10-degree-ec34---traditional-1-18-fitment-6-p.asp [/url]

I think that your idea of running the chainstays at the longest setting is good.

Personally I would consider wider bars to slow the steering rather than a longer stem. A short stem with wide bars will slow the steering without moving your weight forward; this is good for steep trails.

If you’re finding the brakes too strong [i]cruzheckler[/i]’s suggestion of smaller rotors is sound.

Hope to ride with you again soon.

Edd

There's soft and there's soft. My point was that I think these kind of bikes perform at their best with wide enough rims and big enough tyres (and stiff enough carcasses) to run lower pressures. Obviously the quicker and harder you ride, the bigger/tougher you need to go. The last thing you want is the tyre squidging/rolling/squirrelling amount but a reasonable about of give will stick you to the ground harder - and running higher pressures is equivalent to running less damping so things get more boingy when you go too hard.

I can't imagine enjoying riding any MTB fast downhill with the saddle up, especially any hardtails, and especially any long fork hardtails where you need the leg movement to keep the rear tyre as happy as the front.

I began riding on a sov and had it set up a few different ways. If you are not that confident hammering downhill then slackening it off may help but that will perhaps take away from how it was conceived. Its no downhill, FS bike after all. I ended with Lyriks set at 140, more travel seemed to raise the bb too high. This seemed to cope in the Peaks but was also OK for woodsy singletrack places like Wyre and Cannock. The frame is so burly that 36's seemed a better choice than 32's to me. That said its a versatile frame and a lighter build with less travel might be fun. One of the nice things about the sov you can change it quite a bit to suit your style, requirements. If you want slammed rear end and short travel you can have it or you can go for an easier ride at first. I would personally just get out and ride it