Due to life being what it is, I've been off the bike for more years than I'd care to admit. Long enough that things have changed, both with bike standards and with me.
I've got an assortment of complete and half built bikes that I'm thinking to sell (this isn't a stealth ad!) to fund a new, more modern bike.
I've come from the era of 26" wheels with qr axles; so there's not a whole lot I'd be able to transplant onto a new build. Looking now towards gravel bikes, and the most old school xc-like gravel bike I think I've found - that isn't silly money - is probably the Genesis Vagabond. 2023 frame design rather than the new one.
I will be easing myself back into it, so not too worried about weight or speediness and not looking for an e-bike.
Any experiences, opinions or alternatives?
I have an older (2016/17?) Vagabond and it's great.
Done nearly 7000km on it over the last few years - from commuting to off-road bike packing.
Only thing I upgraded was lighter wheels after a couple of years. Few other minor tweaks as I went along - saddle, stem, etc. but the stock kit was mostly ok.
I was like you and bought a very similar bike, which I love riding (had it for 5+ years now) - great for 'old-school' cross country riding, like finding bridleway routes on an OS then going out to ride them. Took me a while to get my head round all the new standards.
I did swap the rigid fork for a SID though, I was finding things a bit harsh otherwise. Is the Vagabond corrected for suspension if you want to do the same?
I don't have experience of the Vagabond, but I did notice that Biketart are selling this year's models and also have, what I assume to be an older model, with 40% off (doesn't actually say what model or year though).
https://www.biketart.com/products/genesis-vagabond?_pos=1&_psq=vagabond&_ss=e&_v=1.0
I had one a few years ago, a very capable bike, good all rounder, though not muck spark about it
I don’t own a Vagabond but i do ride a rigid bike with drop bars off road.
It works for me. Stating the obvious i think you’ve got to be happy on drop bars.
I also think it depends where you live. Riding from the door in Bedfordshire the the only stuff that doesn’t really work on a rigid bike is the purpose built MTB stuff like Woburn. If i was riding some where with rougher terrain like The Peak I’d find a rigid bike more restrictive. The plus point for rigid and drop bars is that its ok on the road linking up the off road
There are a fair few bikes in this category. I’m happy on 650b/27.5 wheels which opens up options like the Sonder Camino
https://bikepacking.com/index/drop-bar-mountain-bikes-29er/
https://bikepacking.com/index/650b-gravel-bikes/
Budget ? How about used ? I have a load of rim braked road wheels - haven't gone disc, so I went for a used CX bike, and have spare wheels for road and gravel already. It's my most versatile bike. No fixings though, so I had to bodge rack mounts for a bike packing trip. The bike isn't compromised on road as I swap in some 28c tyres (fat for me) and then it copes with 38c gravel tyres on traditional narrow rim braked rims. Even the canti brakes stop it well - even loaded.
Yes.
But it has to be the pink one.
And that’s just based on me thinking it looks great 😁
Gonna come at this from 2 different directions.
I've had 2 different Genesis bikes. Neither have especially impressed me. I've still got a Flyer which is my commuter - frameswapped from a Condor that I snapped after many, many years of abuse. Its does the job, but is a bit dead and doesn't have the zing the Condor had. I also had a Fugio for a year. Handled nicely, but was a slug uphill (again a very leaden ride feel) and the frame detailing drove me potty - things like cable routing just didn't work and tyre clearance was limited by braze-ons. Felt like it was designed late on a Friday afternoon by someone who couldn't really be arsed.
I demoed a Cotic Cascade which is a similar thing to a Vagabond (and which I wanted to love). Absolutely didn't get it. It wasn't light enough/fast enough/scary enough to be interesting or efficient to ride on road/easier gravel, and even with 2.4 tyres on you couldn't push it hard enough on more technical terrain to be fun - at that point it needed a sus fork, which would make it heavier again and too close to an actual proper mountainbike.
If I lived somewhere like Suffolk, flat and mostly sandy byway riding, or if its a tool bike that's just a means to further a bigger outdoors objective, it might make sense - but it feels like a fast, light, XC hardtail would actually be more fun to ride offroad and possibly better onroad too.
If I lived somewhere like Suffolk, flat and mostly sandy byway riding, or if its a tool bike that's just a means to further a bigger outdoors objective, it might make sense
I seem to remember enjoying riding my Vagabond around Thetford, far more than when I used any sort of 'proper' MTB there.
Most of my time on the Vagabond was in South Wales where the bigger volume tyres make sense on the mountain access roads. These tracks/roads are generally wide, covered in all sorts of gravel, rocks and stones, broken up by heavy vehicles and rain, and crucially, can be steep and long, up or down. Navigating down them on a cyclocross sized tyre you'd spend more time trying to preserve your tyres and tubes than having fun, whereas on the wider tyres of the Vagabond I'd just throw it down the track and hang on.
I enjoyed my Vagabond and really only sold it to make space for something different, I'd happily have that sort of bike again.
Isnt the 23 vagabond designed around 650b? The only drawback I can see is lack of tyre choice
If I lived somewhere like Suffolk, flat and mostly sandy byway riding, or if its a tool bike that's just a means to further a bigger outdoors objective, it might make sense - but it feels like a fast, light, XC hardtail would actually be more fun to ride offroad and possibly better onroad too.
This. Everyone has their own opinion and where you live and how you ride is incredibly personal, but I'm with the above.
I drank the gravel bike kool aid a few years ago but once I'd built myself a decent hardtail, it doesnt get a look in.
The American style gravel bike - racy, head down, lifetime grand prix style - I get that, IF you happen to live somewhere with miles and miles of graded fire roads (unlikely in the UK). Or what is really a road bike but suitable for UK B roads and white, running thritysomething mil tyres - 'allroad' type bikes.
The big chunky heavy gravel bikes like a vagabond though - unless your actually touring, just seem wasteful, heavy and slow. You dont need to take panniers and framebags and 9 litres of water to go ride round the woods for two hours after work.
Get a XC hardtail a dropper and with 100-120mm travel and it'll weight the same (less!), be just as fast on the road, climb miles faster, and be infinitely more capable and fun on singletrack!
My gravel bike and its 700x50c front tyre are a permanent fixture on my turbo trainer nowadays.
Get a XC hardtail a dropper and with 100-120mm travel
how about a gravel bike with a dropper and some front suspension? Like a Revolt X or similar?
As an addendum to my earlier comment - I bought my Vagabond when the rrp was £999, and I got it on sale for £699, so I was happy to live with the low spec wheels and slightly porky weight.
However, just having looked at the price of them now - £1800 for the 10 and £2300 for the 20 - I imagine there's better (and lighter) options out there now.
I still love mine though 😁 it is a bit chunky, but it's not that slow. I've averaged 24km/h over a 100km ride on it before. Which is not too bad for a solo ride on rough Devon roads.
I bought one not long after they came out. I really wanted to like it, and custom built it with XTR/Thompson/hope bits off other XC hardtails.
But I just didn't. I think I rode it properly (i.e. >50km not just commutes and errands) twice and didn't really enjoy either ride.
Compared to a CX/Gravel bike it was slow and really heavy.
Compared to a rigid XC bike it wasn't as capable.
There wasn't really any more 'all day comfort' in the frame than any other. And it was heavy. But at the same time it flexed so climbing just felt like a chore.
I do think drop bars on 'XC' bikes are better on REALLY long rides measured in double digit hours, triple digit distances and multiple days. The drawbacks are offset then by offset by not being so hard on your hands. I sold it when I took the CAAD-X on a 3 day bikepacking trip and really couldn't find any points on the ride where I wished I'd taken the Vagabond.
Some good insight here. Thanks!
I have a Charge Plug 5, but on 700c wheels it barely takes a 35mm tyre and I'd like more. I think maybe the thing to try is a 650b wheelset - on the assumption that I should be able to squeeze in bigger rubber - and hope that helps. Maybe a new cockpit too. Should be cheaper than buying a new bike, although decent qr 135/100 spacing wheelsets seem to be rare now.
I guess that I should try riding what I can when I can, rather than get distracted by the shiny new things.
Ok, so I've decided to try the Plug on 27.5" wheels (Shimano mt500), which have now arrived. Whoop! Tyres (IRC Boken Plus, 47mm) fit. Bit tight at chain stay but should be ok.
I have new rotors, BUT as it's my first time with centrelock I neglected to consider that I'd need to source lockrings separately to discs and wheels
Are any better than others? Will need internal rather than external type I think?
Only 2 rides in, but love it.
I neglected to consider that I'd need to source lockrings separately to discs and wheels
I thought the lockrings came with the discs? For Shimano anyway.
Share a pic when you're got your Plug updated and ridden.
On the original topic, I (like some above) struggle to "get" drop bar MTBs - I like my gravel bike well enough and I love the XC hardtail I've just picked up cheap - but I can't understand making the gravel bike more burly and keeping drop bars.
I've realised I was mainly dong XC riding on my gravel bike anyway, so I'm gonna see about selling it and just keeping the hardtail (stealth ad: medium Ragley Trig).
I bought a NukeProof Digger back in 2022. Marketed as the Mountain Bikers' gravel bike and actually that's a good reflection of what it is. Before I had a Planet X Tempest that was fantastic on road/poor surfaces but felt closer to a road bike than a MTB. The Digger was definitely closer to a MTB, it was fun on my easy local trails only 15 mins ride away. I never rode there on my MTBs tho as it's all pretty mellow. I expected to do loads of exploring in those big woods, but only manage about 20 rides in 3 years.
I did take it on the Marches and Castles tour loaded up, and it was great both up and down. Such a versatile bike- okay on the road, good on broken up tracks, pretty good downhill within limits of drops/rigid fork/average rider! My mate was on his SC hightower and while that was definitely compromised, I realised I'd rather ride a MTB than the gravel bike.
So it's for sale (another stealth ad!)- for me the benefits of the gravel bike do not outweigh the fact it's not a lightweight hardtail MTB. I'll be getting one of those instead once I've sold it.
It works for me. Stating the obvious i think you’ve got to be happy on drop bars.
Or willing to give them a shot. I think lots of people dismiss them without trying them off-road.
and be infinitely more capable and fun on singletrack!
but I can't understand making the gravel bike more burly and keeping drop bars.
I'm not disagreeing with the posters above, but this sort of discussion, especially around drop bars, is very much 50 shades of gravel as far as I'm concerned. For the 'right' sort of singletrack, I still think drop bars are better.
I used my 29er hardtail (Trek Superfly) for some longer gravel rides a couple of weeks ago, the only concession to 'gravel' (and the distances) being some aero bars in lieu of my shifter hoods, and faster tyres (Mezcals). I loved it and would definitely endorse fatter tyres and hardtails for gravel.
BUT the one thing I missed was the drop bars, especially on descents but also on some of the nicer singletrack bits. I forget what the advantages of flat bars are supposed to be now but I think it's for gnarlier stuff where you need the additional leverage, or for technical stuff where you require a lot more shifting of weight etc. (i.e. hopping and jumping?). Even surfing down the Corrieyairack pass which is loose, rocky and fast, I missed the drop bars. The tyres and suspension dealt with the surface, but I didn't need my hands way out at the end of 720mm handlebars.
Likewise for really tight/fast/flowing singetracks that DOESN'T require lots of popping and jumping, I think drop bars are better. You get that tucked/elbows in Star Wars speeder bike sort of feel.
My dream gravel bike is now 50mm tyres, light/fast frame (not the Vagabond sadly), drop bars and maybe even a short travel suspension fork.
BUT the one thing I missed was the drop bars, especially on descents but also on some of the nicer singletrack bits. I forget what the advantages of flat bars are supposed to be now but I think it's for gnarlier stuff where you need the additional leverage, or for technical stuff where you require a lot more shifting of weight etc. (i.e. hopping and jumping?). Even surfing down the Corrieyairack pass which is loose, rocky and fast, I missed the drop bars. The tyres and suspension dealt with the surface, but I didn't need my hands way out at the end of 720mm handlebars.
Likewise for really tight/fast/flowing singetracks that DOESN'T require lots of popping and jumping, I think drop bars are better. You get that tucked/elbows in Star Wars speeder bike sort of feel.
My dream gravel bike is now 50mm tyres, light/fast frame (not the Vagabond sadly), drop bars and maybe even a short travel suspension fork.
Good comment - and I totally get that drop bars might be better for some riders (though personally I'm loving being able to pop and jump safely on those XC trails again).
Is what you're describing as your dream bike where mainstream gravel is going anyway now?
So it's for sale (another stealth ad!)- for me the benefits of the gravel bike do not outweigh the fact it's not a lightweight hardtail MTB. I'll be getting one of those instead once I've sold it.
I'd definitely recommend getting something light, cheap and slightly outdated like that Boardman I picked up (if you saw it on my Insta).
I live in Suffolk as mentioned above it’s mostly flat with sandy byways, bridleways, singletrack and quiet country lanes. I was looking for something like the Genesis Vagabond or Surly Grappler etc.
Didn’t want to spend a huge amount of money so I got a Kona Unit 2013 frameset and did a drop bar / gravel build. It hasn’t got the latest geometry or standards, QR wheels etc. I built it up with Advent X with drop bar levers and BB7 road mechanical brakes.
It’s brilliant. I love linking everything up on a ride, it feels really nimble for a steel MTB frame.
Only thing I would change is maybe the brakes and maybe add a dropper post.
I get that, IF you happen to live somewhere with miles and miles of graded fire roads (unlikely in the UK)
I must have been trans-located to somewhere in the US because nearby I seem to have hundreds of miles of gravelly looking tracks suitable for a gravel bike. That 'merican accent has a decidedly Welsh twang though.