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Yeah, not impressed with the 25% *road* excuse to be honest.. 😉
I miss the top gears more than the bottom of the road, but it takes a bit of mental adjusting to not to race along and chill out.
How often do you ride? I was working on a theory that people get used to their local trails and after a few weeks could probably adjust to 1x10/11 setup for their local riding but struggle with steeper stuff
Donk - I reckon that might have been the case 20 years ago. Oh that it still was. 😥
Now I'm just fat and unfit, no matter how often I ride (I do ride a lot - 30-odd miles today, by the time I'm home). My problem is that its that kind of hilly all around me, so I just thought I'd struggle with the 1x10. Even with the ratios as described. Its alright saying I could get up that with a 1x10. But what about the one after that? And the one after that? And….
Edit: And to those [s]Pedantic bastards[/s] quoting the gradients figures. My point is this. Its psychological as much as anything. You go and ride 20-30 miles, up some big hills, get to the bottom of your road, then look up that ****er. Believe me, that would be when you're asking 'would a granny ring be a good or bad thing in this circumstance?" I reckon I could guess your answer 😉
I don't just ride up the Rake every once in a while. As well as stuff like Rooley Moore Road, I do it all the time. And I'm just being honest and saying I reckon 1x10 would lead to my premature death with a massive coronary!
The first couple of rides, your left thumb will occasionally wave around where the front shifter used to be, then you'll push your rear shifter again, just to be sure you don't have a gear left, then you just get on with it and it's fine. After the first couple of rides you don't ever notice other than you are slightly quicker up hills than you were. It never actually gets to be a problem. Whether the advantages are enough that you'd prefer it overall, only you can tell, and even then, only after trying it for a bit.
BTW, on my 1by setup i still have a "granny ring". It just happens to be large and fitted at the back, rather than small and fitted at the front....... 😉
I may be pedantic (if that's what you call being able to do arithmetic), but it's not me whingeing about being too fat and lazy to ride up hills in challenging gears in an effort to not be, err, fat and lazy :smilie:
Edit: And to those Pedantic bastards quoting the gradients figures.
hi! 😀
My point is this. Its psychological as much as anything. You go and ride 20-30 miles, up some big hills, get to the bottom of your road, then look up that ****er. Believe me, that would be when you're asking 'would a granny ring be a good or bad thing in this circumstance?" I reckon I could guess your answer
My answer would be "right then, I'll 'ave you this time Hilly boy!" I flippin hate having to get off and push and love a good climb 🙂
That's it in a nutshell though, it is psychological, but I bet you could do it if you were in the right frame of mind!
I went 1x10 because I'm a tart and thought it would look nice. With a weekend in Wales looming, including riding Snowdon, I'm beginning to think I'll regret that decision.
I have 11-36 on the back and just went from 34T to 30T on the front in the vain hope it might help. All this talk of 42T on the rear isn't helping 🙂
Genuine question here: where do you lot who run single rings tend to ride? What are the gradients like?
No idea what the gradients are but my typical locations are Quantocks, Mendips, Bristol, Dartmoor, Plym/Cornwall. That's with a 34t x 11-32t. Also went to Afan for a weekend not too long ago and didn't feel undergeared.
The only issues I find with steep gearing & steep gradient combo is keeping traction which means I have a minimum speed to maintain otherwise i'll wash-out on a pedal-mash. That, and blowing up somewhere near the top of Weacombe hill.
Makes sense coming from SS.
I have a SS road/cross type thing which takes gears. Commutes more than it does anything else. I stayed SS 48/16 for a while, then put a cassette on the back for a Guildford - Brighton, Downs link/SDW ride. Moved house to the top of a hill shortly after and kept the gears on. SS would have been doable, but sometimes you want to twiddle after a long day at work/feeling ill/ carrying a load of shopping.
Just gone 10 speed so I can get a clutch mech and ditch the not-always-that-secure Paul's chainkeeper.
I'll stick knobblies and a smaller chainring on every now and then for longer off-road rides (hilly 100 miler coming up), but I like having less faff, so I probably won't get a double unless I go loaded touring.
Also went to Afan for a weekend not too long ago and didn't feel undergeared.
Afan isn't that bad at all though, Whites Level/Wall is doable in the big ring quite easily (apart from one 20m stretch that is a pig in the big ring but still doable).
I reckon there's some truth to it being what you're used to, if you ride in a hilly place you get used to it, stay on the flats or do mostly trail centre climbs (decent surfaces and overall not that steep or long) and you'll struggle when you're on natural and steeper trails.
You would be surprised what you can do if you except a little more pain.
Not so long ago I fitted a mucky nuts to my chainstays to shield the front mech.
Out on a local ride started up a hill dropped into the granny to here horrendous noise from chain rubbing the muckynuts.
Went back up to the 36 fully expecting to not make it as had never tried to get up that hill out of the granny, but suprisingly did and did the rest of the ride without the granny.
There was nothing mega steep or long but I would normally use the granny often when I discovered I did not have to.
So what it boils down too is the fact that you're all clearly mental, and have recently developed a new found masochism? 😀
Anyone considered the long term consequences that pushing big gears will have on their knees, your muscles will adapt but will your cartilage?
So what it boils down too is the fact that you're all clearly mental, and have recently developed a new found masochism?
Mental maybe, but I've always been this way it's not a recent thing! Some of us were running 1x8 and 1x9 before it was a 'thing', it's actually a lot easier now with bigger cassettes.
I think you'd be surprised by what you could adapt/cope with, it's just too easy to bail out to the granny gear if you have the option.
Fashion.
I think 1x set ups look crap. Small chainring at the front just looks odd.
Anyone considered the long term consequences that pushing big gears will have on their knees, your muscles will adapt but will your cartilage?
You could well be setting yourselves up for premature onset of osteoarthritis.
Oops sorry, double post.
Source? SSers would presumably be at much bigger risk so you're mentioning that to them, I assume?
Besides, most of use are losing top gears that we don't use rather than easier ones.
So what it boils down too is the fact that you're all clearly mental, and have recently developed a new found masochism?
I've been running 1x8 for ~8years. Before that, 2x7 and I only used the granny ring for doing flatland/trialsy stuff.
One weekend in October, people from all over the country come to do this….
To ride their bikes and smile? And he's not even on a fatbike!!
Source? SSers would presumably be at much bigger risk so you're mentioning that to them, I assume?Besides, most of use are losing top gears that we don't use rather than easier ones.
Not got one it was just a thought.
I would presume the more pressure you put on your joints the more wear they will see, could be wrong I'm not a doctor or anything.
Yes presumably ss would be more at risk, I thought I'd ask on this thread as I have no interest in ss threads, sorry if you thought I'd singled 1*10 out.
Isn't there a doctor in the house?
So what it boils down too is the fact that you're all clearly mental, and have recently developed a new found masochism?
Yes. And that I'm inherently lazy but also impatient - so going without the lowest gears stops me from getting too unfit due to lazily twiddling up climbs and also gets me to the top quicker so I can fit more descents into a ride.
It can be somewhat challenging. If I lived somewhere with proper mountains and/or sometimes thought "[i]bugger, I'm going to have a heart attack if I don't change gear[/i]" I'd probably have a granny ring.
🙂
I'm starting to suspect that SRAM developed XX1 because their front mechs are a bit shit.
There is only a psychological component in all of this if you are weak minded. Otherwise it's just pedaling harder, or pedaling easier.
Afan isn't that bad at all though, Whites Level/Wall is doable in the big ring quite easily (apart from one 20m stretch that is a pig in the big ring but still doable).
I put that in as that's probably the longest hills I do. Quantocks are probably the hardest for me despite being considerably shorter though Dartmoor on a bad day can be worse on the flats.
Any of you guys ride in the lakes with x1 ? My 9sp double and bash drivetrain (36/22f, 11/34r) is on it's last legs and the lot needs replacing so seriously considering going x1 up front with 11/42 out back on my nomad. Just wondered if it'd be a step to far for me. All the trail centres I've been to (Gisburn, whinlatter, Glentress )I've never felt the need to use my granny ring but I certainly use it going over the passes in Cumbria.
It's not rocket science is it - work out the lowest gear you use/need on your 2x or 3x set up and see whether a 1x would allow for that. If not then stick with 2x or 3x
Nemesis +1
[i]Any of you guys ride in the lakes with x1 ? My 9sp double and bash drivetrain (36/22f, 11/34r) is on it's last legs and the lot needs replacing so seriously considering going x1 up front with 11/42 out back on my nomad. Just wondered if it'd be a step to far for me. All the trail centres I've been to (Gisburn, whinlatter, Glentress )I've never felt the need to use my granny ring but I certainly use it going over the passes in Cumbria. [/i]
But trail centres are 'designed' to be climbable by the majority of folk that go there, whereas the natural stuff isn't.
I'm in the Scottish Borders and could easily run a 1x9/10/11 setup if I just rode the trail centres and accepted that I'd be pushing more on the natural routes - but if I wanted to walk more...
1:10 / 1:11 isnt for me I like my granny gears to much and my big gears. If it works for you great, but judging by the number of people I see pushing up trail centre climbs ( new cwmcarn trail comes to mind ) I reckon some people are buying into it because of fashion rather than something that works better.
It's not just a matter of gears though. I run a double (+bash) on my Five with 24/32 and 11-36 out back. I like the fact that I can change the way the suspension behaves by shifting the front. I can have the same gear with the suspension fully active or almost locked out and sometimes I like the way it digs in when on the granny.
I have 1x10, 11-36. Nothing to do with "fashion". Riding in the granny is so slow it's almost pointless and you don't need the "big" ring. 1x just makes sense.
"Genuine question here: where do you lot who run single rings tend to ride? What are the gradients like?"
Im using a 1x10 for guiding in the Spanish mountains. Max gradient is about 15% but mostly less than 7%. Daily gains in the region of 1,000m to 1,500m.
Chain/ring/block wear. I ran one for 2 years, using 2 chains on rotation (KMC and Shimano back to back test ;0)). The rivets were not that worn really, just beyond "replace the lot". Which I did when one of the chains finally broke. But Id say thats a pretty good lifespan given that I am riding about 150km per week on it and grinding up to the top of mountains..
Reasons for using. One less thing to wear out/maintain. Dont need the granny ring, the ratios I have are good to go. I can run a short cage mech and a really closed in top guide and bash ring, so I never ever drop the chain. Its a really neat setup for hammering around the rocky singletrack..
I might get a smaller chain ring one day (currently 32T) but im not going to break the bank for it. I reckon it would be good for technical climbing, Id be in the middle of the block so less tension on the mech when the suspension compresses.
IMO the rehash of gears is a great step forward for off road bikes.
Here's another reason to ditch the big front ring perhaps...
[img] 
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Folks saying it's a fashion thing, I remember when the fashion was for as many gears as possible.
Mountain bikes used to get billed higher with the more gears they had...
It's not a fashion thing for me anyways. I use my one full suss bike for most of my riding including dh uplift days. No way I'd use a big ring for that and risk cutting my leg off...
bjj.andy.w I ride the lakes on 1x10. I don't just ride trail centres (hate them to be honest). Get every where with a 36 front, although I have just bought a 32t because my rides are getting longer and I like to keep energy.. I don't push and will always ride what everyone else rides.
I ride lots of Lakes stuff singlespeed (but admit it isn't for everywhere). Happily ridden Spanish Sierra Nevada 1x9 (in 2001 before 1x was fashionable). 1x7 in Austrian Alps and planning 1x10 for Pyrenees this year.
I still seem to have knees that function but guess sometime I'll be using a few gears on a more regular basis.
Purely anecdotal, but the 3 people I know with knackered knees are due to football / running / standing at a lathe for 40 years. Massively low gears are a relatively recent thing, and we don't seem to have a legacy of crippled old roadies from the days when they rode anything and everything fixed or with a handful of close ratio gears.
I can also remember when my relatively top end 1990 mtb came with 26t granny and a 28t max sprocket - i.e. a ratio higher than the 32x36 of a typical 1x10.
The point of 1xwhatever for me is where I would rather be singlespeed but need to add a few gears to get the best out of the area I'm riding in (but have no need whatsoever for +20 gears).
Just built up a new bike with X01, coming from an old 3x9 setup the thing that stands out is the simplicity in only having one shifter where up is up and down is down, no overlap or thinking about what you are doing at the front.
Went from 26" wheels on 3x9 to 29 1x11, ended up doing my calcs and picking a 30T front and it is fine, lost about 1 gear at the lower end and a few at the top end that I am not fit enough to use.
I'm happy with standard 36/46 and 9sp 12-28 on my CX and rarely get into the big ring now I've made the switch. Standard compact and 11-32 was insane for that bike.
I still have a 3x10 HT that doesn't get out much so I've never looked too closely at it.
Main HT is 1x10 with a 34 Hope IBR and 11-36 plus Zee mech and no guides. No worries with that bike. 🙂
Bouncy bike is 2x10 with 24/36 and 11-34, again no guides and SRAM t2 mech. I tend to view it's front shift as 'climb' and 'descend'. I have considered a polycarbonate bash and taco on this bike but never actually done it. So few dechains it hardly seems worth it.
Real 2x chainsets (not chucking the big ring) have a potential advantage in Q factor for pedal stance, and can cause issues with some triple FD's and shifters due to ring offset being different. Possibly a true single ring chainset could do this also but I've never come across anyone running one.
Personally, I like the simplicity. As others have said, after an initial 'OMFG there's no granny' it's surprising how little you miss it. I won't be looking at anything 11x this year of probably next as I have too much decent kit that works.
My riding tends to be around the Dark Peak and the NYM, but can and has ended up many other places including the Lakes and Highlands. Gradients haven't been any bigger a problem than with triples.
TBH, as questions go it's so far into personal taste land it might as well be 'FS or HT', 'Alu/Steel/Carbon', 'What tyres for...', 'wheel sizes...' in my opinion... Ride whatever makes you happy. 🙂
For me, it's the lack of additional shifter and front mech and the hassle it is to position properly on a full sus
When I just had a hardtail if the mech was set up ok then it wasn't touched for a year or two. But it constantly seemed to rub on my full sus no matter what I did or how I had it set up. I then went 2x9 with a bash and the chain kept jumping and eventually I snapped the shifter arm trying to change gears (after another jump)
So I either bought a stinger and a new front shifter or went 1x9. Once I'd tried 1x9 and realised I could still ride most of the hills I realised that 1x10 was actually doable. Wanted a 32t front ring but ended up with 34 and then got used to it
Now I won't go back. No noise, no hassle with front mech, looks good and was surprisingly easy to transition to. And if the hill is too steep or too long I have no problems getting off to push. I seem to be doing it more now I've stopped commuting on my single speed tho so think I need to go back to that next
Btw - commute is a 250m vertical climb over 2.5 miles. Great coming home tho
I rode the lakes 1x9 before it got fashionable on a 36t, it was hard work I was lighter and fitter and you know what I carried a lot but that was the riding we were doing really. I went back as 1x9 didn't offer the range.
Now the house has 2 1x10 bikes with 40t on them and a 1x11 X01 setup. not really looking back, not in the lakes anymore but plenty of hills to test it on.
Right chaps! After yesterdays discussion, I thought I'd have a little experiment last night on the way home. I'm running a standard 3x10 set up, so I thought I'd do one of my usual routes home (14 miles. 1000ft of climbing), and see if I could do it staying on the middle ring. I'm normally up and down the gears like the proverbial whores draws, as there are precious few flat bits.
So... first I've got a road slog up up from Burnley to Clowbridge. Its a big climb, and bloody steep. Normally where it kicks a bit I'd drop onto the granny. This time I didn't, and just ground up it. It wasn't actually as hard as I thought. Strava informs me its my fastest time up there!
But then I turned off road onto the Pennine bridleway. Different story completely here. The first climb is a real bitch. There was absolutely no way its doable in the middle ring. Not be me anyway! Dropped onto he granny and winched up it. I reckon on 1x10, you'd be pushing up here.
After that its uppy/downy, but its muddy. Very muddy. And this is where the other issue comes in. Traction. Or lack of it. There are a few really steep narrow little climbs. The back tyre is spinning a lot, as I'm struggling with grip. Dropping down to the granny gives me more range for the conditions, to try and get the weight over the back, and find some traction on the steep sloppy stuff. Out-of-the-saddle grunting up them isn't a viable option. You're off and walking again, I reckon.
When I get over the top and drop down to lumb. Here the surface improves and it opens out. I pretty soon find myself spinning out on the middle ring, and bang it up onto the big ring to take full advantage. I kept this going on this as I turn onto the tarmac for another couple of miles down the valley. Back off road down the Irwell and its the same thing. Traction. Its filthy and boggy, and you just need a full range of lower gears to keep any kind of momentum at all
it was interesting. Yesterday I was asking about how you deal with gradient. After last night I have to ask: What kind of trails are you lot riding? How do you get through axle deep filth on 1x10? Or are you off and pushing. I can see the advantage at trail centres etc, if you're riding hard packed, well-drained stuff. But Is it possible to ride natural trails in wet muddy conditions, and get a similar amount of traction as you do with 3x10?
I understand that its horse for courses, but do any of you ride steep trails on 1x10, where most of the year its a quagmire? On last nights experience, that really would be bloody hard work!
There was absolutely no way its doable in the middle ring
Your one maybe.. different ring or cassette might change that.
Or it may just not be for you and what you ride. I don't think anyone has been stupid enough to say it's right for everyone.
That's the thing, with a decent set-up and a 42t sprocket on the rear you aren't missing anything like that whole granny ring. Try the experiment again but instead of avoiding the granny ring entirely, just don't use your very lowest 1 or 2 gears in the granny. Now can you manage?
What pleasure is there in 'riding' through axle-deep filth anyway?! Sod that.
I've never walked a climb I thought would be doable if I'd had a lower gear, in fact I'm struggling to think of any I've walked full stop. If I was doing that, I'd not use 1x drivetrains. Simple. YMMV.
binners - MemberWhen I get over the top and drop down to lumb. Here the surface improves and it opens out. I pretty soon find myself spinning out on the middle ring, and bang it up onto the big ring to take full advantage. I kept this going on this as I turn onto the tarmac for another couple of miles down the valley.
hang on, i've spotted your problem, you're riding this loop the wrong way round! 🙂