The more you spend, the better the frame and the lighter the componentry. Weight savings on the bike are going to make some difference. And if you rode your old 9kg bike with a pair of 750ml bottles full to brimming and half a kilo of tools and do the same with your new 8kg one, it's still a kilo lighter
Carbon layup is done rapidly and cheaply on mass produced frames, they're still better than an aluminium frame (well, most are) but they spend very little time getting it right. Layup is so much better in a more expensive frame and it shows. Hence my surprise at the amount of kick that turned into forward motion on a frame that is still comfortable over 50 miles.
£2.5k tcr advanced sl frame.....won bugger all.
£350 Px RT57 frame....won slightly more.
QED I think you'll find.
Hence my surprise at the amount of kick that turned into forward motion on a frame that is still comfortable over 50 miles.
Is it laterally stiff yet vertically compliant?
If I had a 6k bike I'd try harder.
🙄
So much BS on one thread.
It's getting close to the bike weight threads.
Obviously a top end super light bike will be a bit quicker, but thats not the point. Most of all it will be a joy to ride. Mine's worth every penny, and very much adds to my cycling pleasure 😀 for us mortals surely thats the only consideration.
Definitely quicker on a £6000 bike - think how much lighter your wallet will be!
Over 40 miles my crap, heavy Kaffenback is under 1mph slower than my light, very stiff Orbea. The Orbea certainly feels faster, hell, it looks a lot better too, but in the real world it seems to make virtually no difference.
**Non-scientific anecdote alert**
There's a segment on my normal commute, which by virtue of being on my commute I've done 307 times as of this morning.
This has principally been done on two bikes:
22lb Allez with mud guards and that
17lb Madone without mudguards and that
At various times I've had a real dig on this segment (it's 0.7 miles, a shallow (2% average) climb, normally I just plod up it, depends on wind, whether I'm KoM or not etc etc. Just downloaded the average stats (and removed the times there were traffic lights on it) for the two bikes and the results are as follows:
Allez:
176 attempts
2:38:56 average
1:50 fastest
Madone:
69 attempts
2:37:32 average
1:48 fastest
So... on that segment it makes sod all difference - 1.2 seconds, or roughly 0.9% difference. That's over 2 years and various levels of fitness. Annoyingly you can't download power data from Veloviewer, as I've always got a PowerTap on the Allez, and often have it on the Madone too.
So, through the miracle of woeful extrapolation, and to answer the OP's question if the Madone was consistently 0.9% faster, and your 50 miles took 3 hours then I'd be 1.62 minutes faster. I think.
So, through the miracle of woeful extrapolation, and to answer the OP's question if the Madone was consistently 0.9% faster, and your 50 miles took 3 hours then I'd be 1.62 minutes faster. I think.
...if the whole of the 50 miles was a shallow climb.
In reality, whilst you have very good data there - far better quality than the usual anecdotal stuff - I reckon <1% variation is within experimental error, especially given that I can believe there might be a general trend to push slightly harder on average on the nicer bike (it might not be something you're aware of, but pushing hard 25% of the time on the Madone vs 15% of the time on the Allez could be enough to skew the figures that much).
Agree, plus I generally ride the Allez in the winter/bad weather and the Madone in the summer, so there's an inherent fitness/weather thing as well.
Doesn't get around the fact the Madone is vastly nicer to ride!
Agree, plus I generally ride the Allez in the winter/bad weather and the Madone in the summer, so there's an inherent fitness/weather thing as well.
This. I am consistently faster on the nice plastic bike, but that gets ridden when the sun is shining and the roads are dry. Heavy old bike with guards comes out when it's cold/wet/windy and I'm usually wrapped up doing steady miles. I doubt one is that much quicker than the other, but one is certainly nicer to ride 🙂
I can't argue with that - I'm also far faster on my nice bike, the difference being far more significant than could be attributed to any inherent difference in the bikes. Though that does remind me of one difference in Nick's bikes I didn't pick up - like my winter bike, his Allez has mudguards, and if anything I'm actually surprised they don't lose him more than 1%.
Depends what colour it is.
When I bought a good carbon bike my average increased and I set a load of new PR's. I don't think it was much to do with the bikes function though over than making me want to ride because I also lost 20kg and can now quite happily beat PR's on my old bike and set just as high average.
An aero bike will probably save you more
losing a 5kg paunch and getting some core strength/flexibility to actually get ‘aero’ would probably save you more.
Though that does remind me of one difference in Nick's bikes I didn't pick up - like my winter bike, his Allez has mudguards, and if anything I'm actually surprised they don't lose him more than 1%.
I must admit I was actually surprised it was that little. There is more often a tail wind in winter, which is perhaps contributory - it's why I'd be interested to get power or HR data. The standard deviation on the Allez is 12.41 seconds, and on the Madone is 14.31, which is really surprising, so actually a tighter spread on the Allez.
The fastest average is actually the day I rode my Top Fuel to work in the snow - 2:35, so, according to statistics, a 26" FS bike is fastest!
Do people not carry a tube/pack/tool etrc to save bike weight?
Maybe those who enjoy walking home!
The only time I don't carry what I need to get me home in most circumstances is when I'm racing.
If I'm out training on the race bike, I'll still have mini pump in my jersey or jacket pocket and tube/levers/prk/multi-tool in a small saddle pack. Compared to the combined weight of body and bike, its insignificant.
Agreed, always carry tube(s)/pump/multitool with chain tool.
njee20
Thats good stuff
1% isn't nothing and would be huge could be critical in a competitive enviroment
My road bike is a hard tail with slicks. So would a cheap road bike be faster?
If you want to save 5mins off your ride, go just a little bit less far, thus saving 5mins off your ride time with no additional bike cost. Just ensure that the bit you cut out isnt right at the end or you'll not make it home
Equally you can have this tip free of charge
Compact?
Just set off 5 minutes earlier??
Just go slowly when riding the old bike. Should make improving by 5 minutes a lot easier.
"You might save some time but it'll be minimal. Basically 2kg saves around 2 minutes up Alpduez according to this link."
Not even 2 minutes! As someone else mentioned in the comments section, if you normalise for power variations then 1.8kg weight added increases energy cost by 3%, so approximately 1-1.5 minutes saved over a 50 minute climb. Mass on frame vs mass on wheels was insignificant, as was reducing tyre pressure. Not scientific or super robust but it does show only minimal advantage to weight loss from the bike.
"0.7 miles, a shallow (2% average) climb"
Only problem with your large dataset Nick... since when is a 0.7 mile stretch of road with a 2% average gradient considered a climb? 🙂 That's an aero test 😉
Actually I seem to remember reading that the drag due to mass increases quite quickly from anything over just a few % gradient which is quite surprising, but also that for most average roadies climbing speeds, aero is more important than mass until about 10-12% gradient. Maybe someone can correct this?
Hence saying shallow! I just meant that it goes uphill, it's not steep by any stretch!
I did add HR and power data to the sample, but was still playing with it to get it right. At first glance the Madone was higher HR, lower power. But only a couple of bpm/watts either way.
Right, put HR and power numbers against my rides now:
Allez:
176 attempts
2:38:56 average
1:50 fastest
169bpm average HR (max 195bpm)
223w average power (max 364w)
Madone:
69 attempts
2:37:32 average
1:48 fastest
162bpm average HR (max 190bpm)
217w average power (max 270w)
So... I try harder on the Allez, in both power and HR, but go slower for it. So that's what you'd expect. Data sample for power on the Madone is quite small, and the 270w is a bit weird - wasn't a fast ride, wonder if that was when it needed calibrating. So... still vastly unscientific, but there you go.
