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Argh.
sharki- "He answer wasn't at all helpful, he just said it offers a different type laff."
That's the best and most helpful answer... That and wors's PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
Between those 2 bikes, I believe the summer season will be slacker which will give it some real advantages on steep descending. Depends on exactly which stumpy it is mind. If he wants to create more water between the 2 he should maybe consider setting them up with a bit more difference, a Pike or similiar fork maybe, though that'd depend on what he rides. If I was going to ride, say, nevis red I'd far sooner have a long travel summer season than a 120mm stumpy frexample.
But can you ride 4X on a Prince Albert? 😉
Fairy nuff.
Since having ridden the local Bristol trails on my new Scandal SS I am totally taken by HT riding again, I took the 'Dale Rush out at the weekend and it felt a bit poopy in comparison, I shall take the Rush to Cwmcarn at the weekend and Afan the next, if it doesn't shine on these trails like I remember it used to, then it's gone.
You can ride 4X on a Prince Albert...
I guess the difference would be between something like the Dialled Bikes PA you used to own and the full susser you currently own.
Cost to my mind is the major upside of an HT, it’s the primary reason I’ve jacked in bouncy bikes, both for trail use and for DH, I have a 4” forked Ally framed HT for trail riding and a 7” forked steel framed HT for DH use (and/or being mocked)...
Riding a HT can force you to change the way you ride, you do use your legs a lot more to soak up the trail, you also pick lines far more carefully and probably think more about braking points more, the effect braking in the wrong place through rough sections has is far more pronounced, I’m sure lots of people will tell you riding a HT makes you a “Better rider” this is debateable, it makes you concentrate more on line choice, a crap rider is still a crap rider, an FS bike just compensates for poor technique better…
Modern 4-5” XC/AM FS bikes climb better than any Hard tail, on rough rooty horrid climbs they keep the wheel on the ground giving good traction and rider comfort and allow the rider to smoothly spin their way up various climbs, I know this to be the case as I’ve watched mates streak ahead of me on climbs looking un-phased by rocks and roots that have my back wheel bouncing and slipping all over the place…
Still I do get to the top in the end and I’ve still spent a fraction of what they have on a bike, so a small amount of smugness is allowable I reckon…
For DH again you cannot argue that a HT is faster or “better”, but I got my DH-HT frame for £130 new, where I would probably have spent 10 times as much for a DH-FS frame, and simply by having less components (shock, bearings etc) it saves weight, aiding handling a bit, I still have fun riding it, obviously I’m no faster but I feel more of a man for tackling the same courses as fellas on 8+ bouncy bikes on a boneshaker and making it down alive…
If your mate is running both a bouncer and a HT it’s probably just to save wear and tear on the bouncer, especially over winter, that and the fact that if he were to wreck the 456 attempting silly things I doubt he’d shed a tear (£150 odd to replace the frame is relatively little), where as the stumpy is a different matter, bet he rides harder on the HT despite the lack of rear end talent compensation…
so we can say that a full susser is in fact better for jumping than a hardtail, unless your involved in the niche that is jumping, in which case the rigid bike is better.
TBH..........
There' very few trails I imagine to be quicker on a hardtail,
You can go further on a 100mm full sus than a hardtail before your back gets pummeled into submission.
You can climb faster off road on a full susser as theres more grip.
You can decend faster on a full susser as its smoother.
If I could find one I like and afford I'd retire the hardtail and just ride full'suss, thats why im building a rigid bike next...........
who said any of this had to make sense?
2 years ago I used to feel embarassed about holding onto my HT for dear life as my FS friends smoothly disappeared into the distance...but now that embarrasment has turned into smugness, and it hasn't cost me a penny. Thank you changing fashions! 8)
I've been doing this MTB thing for 21 years on and off, and the vast majority of the riding I've done has been on rigid bikes, not even front suspension. And that includes riding down Ben Nevis.
Maybe I need to MTFU, but at the end of the day, my short-travel FS bike leaves my back and shoulders a lot less beaten up than a hardtail or rigid bike. If was doing any sort of full-to-multi-day epic these days, at 37, I'd want something to give my poor bones a bit of a break.
Since I've never done a full ride on a FS bike with more than about 3 inches of rear travel, I can't comment further. However, I can see that a hardtail might be a lot more fun[1] that something with loads of travel which basically leaves you disconnected from the trail.
Dr. Matt...
[1] ...for some value of fun...
Bigdummy wrote, "But can you ride 4X on a Prince Albert?"
I rode most of the fort william 4X course on my Soul, no problems so a PA would definately be fine. I did almost **** my pants though, but that's not the bike's fault.
Thisisnotaspoon mentioned the other thing which is relevant here, which is speed... A full suss on regular trails is almost always faster. But speed isn't neccesarily better. I get fairly little of my mtb thrill from speed, personally, if I did I'd probably have bought a Zesty or something by now, for easier pace.
ooOOoo - Member
2 years ago I used to feel embarassed about holding onto my HT for dear life as my FS friends smoothly disappeared into the distance...but now that embarrasment has turned into smugness, and it hasn't cost me a penny. Thank you changing fashions!
You ought to be more embarrassed by the latter experience.
Lets face it, the end result is personal preference, the questions are
a) Does the suspension absorb significant pedalling energy
b) Does the suspension negate the slowing effects of the bumps.
c) Is the ride long and arduous, and if it is, how "hard" is the rider?
a - does the action of the suspension take any energy from the forward motion of the bike (pedal bob etc). Some do, some dont.
b - Does having no suspension mean the bike is slowed in its motion - try rolling a wheel over rough mud, then try rolling it on concrete - if you allow the wheel freer vertical motion it will tend to roll over the obstacle more easily as it only has its own weight to lift, rather than the weight of itself AND the frame.
c - it may be more efficient to ride the hardtail over longer distances, but it may cause more discomfort, it depends how the rider can cope with that.
So it's personal preference and frame design that make the difference. Each is different, few are invalid choices.
If we're talking objectively, then in most scenarios the average full suss is 'better' at climbing, descending, cornering, and comfort than it's equivalent hard tail. However, some folk are happy to accept that those criteria aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all of the MTB experience, and that in some circumstances a hard tail can be the 'right' choice rather than the 'better' choice. Other riders are more competent than others and can mitigate for the times that a FS 'should' be a better choice.
Whatever makes you smile is, mostly, what I find to be the better bike.
ooOOoo - Member
2 years ago I used to feel embarassed about holding onto my HT for dear life as my FS friends smoothly disappeared into the distance...but now that embarrasment has turned into smugness, and it hasn't cost me a penny. Thank you changing fashions!You ought to be more embarrassed by the latter experience.
Sounds like someone needs to MTFU and try it...
I've got a Stiffee with Pikes, ProII/823s, Rubber Queen/High Roller UST, SLX Cranks, X9, Thomson, Devo Saddle etc. at the moment, 28.5lbs.
Also got a Commencal Meta 6 similar guise at 33lbs.
The hardtail is FAR more fun, I'm loving it at the moment, fun for 4x/pump track action (had my first taste on Sunday), and it's genuinely faster at my local DH track, it's just so rag-able and takes everything on, it gives me more confidence, makes me pick smoother lines, and myself and a mate both believe I'm quicker on it, yet to do a timed run, but normally said mate is 15s in front of me. I was braking so not to rear end him last time we rode together!
The 30ish lb sus is better for those who've reached that place in life where their knees/back aren't up to it 😉
Summer with 140 Vans and Hemlock with 36 Talas here.
Both built for the same kind of riding, both a similar weight, this way i can fix one bike while riding the other.
Plus i'm gonna ride the Summer on flats over winter to protect the Cotic and maybe improve my Skillz..
Is quicker better? surely more fun is better and even more fun per £
Rides that are a challenge on a short forked hardtail might become easy on a full sus. Is that more fun?
I have just gone from a full suss (giant trance) to a summer season and the summer season is way more fun. That's what it's really about and for £125 quid you cannot get anything better.
ooOOoo - MemberooOOoo - Member
2 years ago I used to feel embarassed about holding onto my HT for dear life as my FS friends smoothly disappeared into the distance...but now that embarrasment has turned into smugness, and it hasn't cost me a penny. Thank you changing fashions!You ought to be more embarrassed by the latter experience.
Sounds like someone needs to MTFU and try it...
Rode my hardtail last night thanks and the FS a few days before.
No need to cling to either for my masculinity.