D0NK - Member
innappropriate bikes? Ooh so riding my 8" gnarr bike down the canal towpath is gonna get me nicked? oops
Unfortunately being a bellend is still not an arrestable offence so I reckon your safe for now........
phew
😆
Are people being dleiberately thick?
Mr. Chavy Scrote in shellsuit and nike airs riding a Trek Fuel EX9.9 with SPD pedals gets stoped.
Mr. Middle Class in a suit riding his titanium brompton (wtf?) or nichemonger steel racer to work probably wont be stoped.
And the article says the bikes aren't confiscated if you can't produce the recipt there and then, you're given aproducer which gives you a few weeks to turn up at the police station with ID and the recipt/owners manual/ebay add/whatever proof of ownership.
Unfortunately being a bellend is still not an arrestable offence so I reckon your safe for now........
refering to it as a "gnarr bike" shoud be though!
no I got it, not a bad idea I guess but could it be considered chav-ist? There's plenty of people I see and think hmm, you, on that bike, seriously? But it could just be someone nipping to the shops on their bling bike dressed however. I'm not sure if I have issues with police being able to stop you just coz you [i]look a bit shifty.[/i]Mr. Chavy Scrote in shellsuit and nike airs riding a Trek Fuel EX9.9 with SPD pedals gets stoped.
While riding I generally have enough lycra about my person to be firmly marked out as [i]cyclist[/i] (or possibly weirdo) I did get stopped once on my bike, it was midnight, I was a bit erm medicated and I had my gfs bank card with me, lucky escape there really.
oh and I lied, my bike hasn't got 8" of travel.
it may have gnar written on it tho 😳
I... ride a Ti [b]Brompton[/b]
You should be chucked in the back of the vayn and given a proper beating for that. 😡
Hmm, dunno about this. I'd imagine there could be potential for legal problems with such a scheme, no matter how well intended. There's the 'reasonable suspicion' thing, and 'you look a bit too scrotey/poor to own a bike like this' isn't really something that can be covered by RS I woon't have thought. I suspect Liberty might have a better idea on this than me, but people should have the right to move about without being treated as potential criminals.
titanium brompton (wtf?)
I know. Disgusting, isn't it?
Thin end of the wedge and all that....
Oh here we go.Speeding is against the law.
Riding a bicycle is not.
I don't carry proof of purchase for my underpants either, do you want to confiscate them too officer?
Figure it out.
You are not free to drive at 100mph down my street, and neither are you allowed to ride a stolen bicycle. A police officer may wish to speak to you if he or she reasonably suspects you of doing either of these things. Therefore it is not a free country.
Do you get it yet?
Ah, Elfinsafety is back. How is the head? Did sir have a few beers last night maybe?
Mr. Chavy Scrote in shellsuit and nike airs riding a Trek Fuel EX9.9 with SPD pedals gets stoped.Mr. Middle Class in a suit riding his titanium brompton (wtf?) or nichemonger steel racer to work probably wont be stoped.
Similar logic is what led to black people being stopped because they were driving a nice car. I don't know what the answer is!
WOAH THERE!
black people are allowed to drive cars? next thing women will be voting and gays will be allowed to celebrate their relationships with some kinda civil partnership!
will somebody please think of the children?!
(i like this idea if it reduces bike theft, but i'd probably like the idea less if i was being stopped and had my winter hack bike taken from me when i'm riding to the gym in tracksuit trousers and an old t-shirt)
Prove it's mine? Prove it isn't Mr Policeman.
A textbook example of What Not To Say. 🙂
Similar logic is what led to black people being stopped because they were driving a nice car. I don't know what the answer is!
No thats racism, prejudice against chavy scrotes is perfectly acceptable in my world.
Similar logic is what led to black people being stopped because they were driving a nice car. I don't know what the answer is!
It's not against the law to discriminate on the basis of fashion sense yet though (re. burberry caps)
I'm sure the few people on here complaining about civil liberties would soon change their tune if their stolen bike was returned to them.
Just out of interest how many people in favour of this have had a bike stolen recently, and how many against haven't? Suspect there's a neat looking Venn diagram to to drawn...
No thats racism, prejudice against chavy scrotes is perfectly acceptable in my world.
The principle is the same - you're stopping someone because of the way they look. As I said, I don't know what the answer is.
Just out of interest how many people in favour of this have had a bike stolen recently, and how many against haven't? Suspect there's a neat looking Venn diagram to to drawn...
I applaud the police for taking more action, but I'm not sure this is the best way of doing it.
Ah, Elfinsafety is back. How is the head? Did sir have a few beers last night maybe?
I coon't possibly comment.... 😳
I'm sure the few people on here complaining about civil liberties would soon change their tune if their stolen bike was returned to them.
Might as well just arrest everyone because of crimes they might possibly have committed, then?
No?
See, the problem with something like this is, if the police do stop someone and seize their property, that person may well have grounds to argue against 'reasonable suspicion' and then you've got another problem. You stop me and take my bike, ruin my day, make me miss my train/appointment etc, you better bloody well be able to prove 'reasonable suspicion' or I'm having you up on harassment dirty babylon.
The principle is the same - you're stopping someone because of the way they look.
this is not the case, they're stopping someone because they look like they're riding a stolen bike - not, for example, because they have a big nose and big nosed people steal more bikes (true fact).
there is a difference.
As I said, I don't know what the answer is.
Probably something along the lines of:
[b]Repressive fascist state funded babylonian/Law enforcement officer[/b] (delete as preferred) "Excuse me Sir, we're looking into bicycle theft locally, could I ask if you have any proof that you own that bike or have permission to ride it"
[b]STW liberista[/b] "You'll never take me alive cozzer, I has rights innit [throws policeman the Vs and tries to make getaway on woefully undergeared SS]"
[b]Normal person[/b] "Sorry officer, not with me right now, but I do have receipts and details at home, also have plenty of pictures of me riding/racing/posing on it I could show you"
Which response do you think is going to get a polite "Thank you Sir, that's fine" and which is going to get a lot of hassle (subsequently whinged about on t'inernetz) ?
People ask for common sense from the Police, but it cuts both ways doesn't it........
this is not the case, they're stopping someone because they look like they're riding a stolen bike - not, for example, because they have a big nose and big nosed people steal more bikes (true fact).
there is a difference.
It depends how you do it. If someone riding an expensive bike is stopped because they're wearing a burberry cap, that's little different to stopping someone driving an expensive car because they are black. I guess what I'm saying is they could probably enforce this with some knowledge and common sense, but it's a big "if".
no you are stopping someone because they appear to not "look right" on the bike they are riding
How would you tell a bike looks stolen from it being ridden down the road?
Magic eyes?
Probably something along the lines of:
If you're going to use the word "probably", it's best not to follow it with an improbable scenario born in your over-active imagination.
STW liberista "You'll never take me alive cozzer, I has rights innit [throws policeman the Vs and tries to make getaway on woefully undergeared SS]"
😆
no you are stopping someone because they appear to not "look right" on the bike they are riding
Let's be honest, this applies to most STWers really, dun't it?
Magic eyes?
you know what I mean, I'm not getting drawn into an argument over semantics.
you know what I mean, I'm not getting drawn into an argument over semantics.
I don't know what you mean. How does someone look like they're riding a stolen bike?
ransos - Member
If you're going to use the word "probably", it's best not to follow it with an improbable scenario born in your over-active imagination.
"....tries to make getaway on woefully undergeared SS"
You're right of course, that would never happen, not ever, at all....
Another point: if you've got a bike and don't have anything that would prove ownership (such as a record of the serial number, a detailed description, or even a photo of the wretched thing) how do you expect to be able to prove it's yours if it gets stolen and then recovered?
You're right of course, that would never happen, not ever, at all....
Exactly. I, for example, wouldn't be seen dead on a SS.
Next!
you know what I mean, I'm not getting drawn into an argument over semantics.
I know the point you are making but I reject it. I cannot see how you can stop someone without Pre-judging [using prejudice] them as you cannot tell a bike is stolen by looking at the bike ergot you must look at the rider and judge.
I see the point you are tryin gto make thiough but hopefully yo see th eproblem with it...how can we implement this fairly
And I bet in a town the size of Preston many of the people stopped will already be known to the police.
I live near Preston, and have a bright pink bike.
I'm f--ked then.
Elfinsafety - Memberno you are stopping someone because they appear to not "look right" on the bike they are riding
Let's be honest, this applies to most STWers really, dun't it?
'ello, 'ello, 'ello - scuse me Sir, you seem to be looking like a right wrong'un and riding that there bicycle in a manner most inappropriate, I'm going to 'ave to stitch you up like the proverbial kipper and take you back to the station for a proper good kickin'
Acceptable documentationAcceptable documentation regarding ownership is a receipt, a photograph of the rider on the bike seized, a house insurance document/bicycle insurance document that has the bike listed or a bank statement showing the purchase of the bike from a cycle shop. [b]Lancashire Police said that inquiries could also be carried out with the shop that the bike was bought from to confirm ownership[/b].
How's your Spanish fellas? 😆
Love the bit of Old Skool racism at the end! 😆
I'm training in Preston tonight and I'm going on my bike. If my next post is at 11pm it means I've had to walk home because my bikes been confiscated.
there is a manchester based pinkbike seller thats aroused my suspicion. always sells high end mint kit. i may be totally wrong but fox forks sale on a yeti 575 bike split. credible profile rightup but its just a hunch
When they talked about doing this is edinburgh one of the criteria for suspecting someone was that they had no helmet.
See! Another good reason to wear one. TJ. I never thought I'd say it, but you've finally got me convinced.
Onus must be on the police to prove wrongdoing, it's not up to members of the public to prove they're lawabiding. Hands up everyone who can prove ownership of their bikes? I only bought one of mine new, and that was in 1991.
And there's plenty of times an owner could look suspicious... At the weekend I was working on the downhill bike, took it out for a testride wearing my garage clothes- black combat trousers, black hoodie. No cycling kit, no helmet, riding a totally inappropriate bike along the river path. Is this your bike sir? Yes. Can you prove it? No.
oh FFS. People get bikes nicked and complain of lack of interest by the police. A police force tries a proactive response to cycle crime and cyclists cry foul, abuse of human rights/civil liberty etc etc.
Maybe the reason this is being publicised is so that 1) lawful cyclists do make some effort to carry something but more significantly 2) thieving scumbags think twice about nicking bikes for fear of being caught on them. Whenever we have a proactive plain clothes anti-crime operation we publicise its launch (without saying how long it lasts). It has a deterrent effect as the burglars/thieves/robbers tend to stay indoors as they don't know where we are or when, and the drop in crime figures lasts for a couple of weeks after the end of the operation as the villains are still cautious. If we include search warrants it has an effect on the handlers as they worry it might be their door next.
Police don't have to prove something is nicked, they have to have reasonable grounds to suspect in order to seize it. And there are all sorts of ways of satifying ourselves that a bike is legit; this week I stopped a stereotypical hoody out on a bike in an area that had suffered burglaries. He had the key to the lock wrapped around the frame, and could describe the bike without looking at it. I can list every part on my custom builds and I'm sure you can too, Northwind et al. But don't let that stop the moaning and hand-wringing. One of my PC's is currently posing as a buyer to recover a bike on gumtree and arrest the seller. I'll tell him not to bother 🙄
Hands up everyone who can prove ownership of their bikes? I only bought one of mine new, and that was in 1991.
:waves hands: 😆
So if you had the misfortune to suffer a theft, then saw the stolen bike in a local 2nd hand shop etc, how would you go about proving it was yours ?
crashtestmonkey - MemberOne of my PC's is currently posing as a buyer to recover a bike on gumtree and arrest the seller. I'll tell him not to bother
Is it a stolen bike, or does it just look like it might possibly be stolen?
hilldodger - Member
So if you had the misfortune to suffer a theft, then saw the stolen bike in a local 2nd hand shop etc, how would you go about proving it was yours ?
I couldn't. I've got the frame numbers but that proves nothing. I know all the parts, but that proves nothing either. Some of them, I could provide ebay or classifieds ads for the parts, but that wouldn't be proof either.
And if the response is going to be "Oh, but the Police will exercise reason and act appropriately in all cases"- I don't believe in infallible humans.
Northwind - MemberIt's unlikely I could tbh. I've got the frame numbers but that proves nothing. How would you?
Thanks to local cycling group cooperating with police, bikes are security marked and registered to me as owner 😀
So if you had the misfortune to suffer a theft, then saw the stolen bike in a local 2nd hand shop etc, how would you go about proving it was yours ?
I'd just go in and take it. Bring some big mates with me if necessary.
I certainly woon't be wasting police resources and taxpayers' money by involving Plod.
oh FFS. People get bikes nicked and complain of lack of interest by the police. A police force tries a proactive response to cycle crime and cyclists cry foul, abuse of human rights/civil liberty etc etc.
Human Rights and Civil Liberties are far more important than flipping bicycles (and yes I have had bikes stolen from me). something your lot might want to think about next time yer out bashing students or killing electricians/newspaper sellers on their way home, etc... 😉
Oh, did I just lump all coppers in together? Assume they're all bad because of the actions of a tiny minority? How naughty of me....
