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Also I thought Wiggins' "I'll never ride le tour again" interview read more like "I realise it was a unique set of circumstances that gave me the chance to win last year, and as that will never happen again what's the point in trying?"
I thought that too but couldn't have put it better. Having said that I can only imagine how much dedication and effort it takes to not only compete in a Grand Tour but to win it. Don't forget Wiggo also had his eye on the Olympics last year as well. I guess winning the TdF, a gold medal in a home Olympic time trial and then being made a knight of the realm, there's not much more to motivate you.
I just think he could have delayed that announcement until maybe next season. It looks a little like sour grapes leading up to the Tour and that his heart wasn't really in it this year.
There's a lot to be said for quitting at the top. Maybe if he'd achieved that a few years ago we'd have seen a bit more from him but he is getting a bit long in the tooth now! 🙂
Emac, was that Stage 17 ?
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But could Wiggins have finished with the leaders yesterday? Almost certainly yes, to claim otherwise is crazy.
True
Wiggins was no mug at climbing he was just tempo
That said Froome is the stronger climber
As for the pic - there is no doubt Froome waited for Wiggo and supporting him cost him the Vuletta
Not saying any of this means he would have beaten him
Wiggo seems to have just one pace based on his time trial and track abilities and I think would struggle under similar conditions to what Froome faced yesterday.
Do you actually have to attack to win climbs? Does it get you to the top quicker?
I [i]think[/i] physiologically the less time you spend riding anaerobically the faster you'll be overall. See last year - people attacked, got up the road, but they just got winched back in. That burst of speed does cost you.
As for the pic - there is no doubt Froome waited for Wiggo
Yep - Froome waited but who is to say what would have happend if he hadn't? He may have cracked and Wiggo ground his way back up, he may have gone on to win the stage only to suffer from it the next day, he may have not had enough left for the TT and lost any extra time he gained, he may hve been fine and gone on to win the tour.
But it's all just speculation, all we can be ceratin of is that Wiggins won the tour and to do that he had to not only ride around France but also put in all the effort in previous years to get him the prevelidged postion of being the team leader. Had Froome won Olympic golds, finished 3rd in the tour, won the Dauphine 2 years in a row etc. then maybe he would have been the leader as he is now.
There seems to be a general view that Wiggins can't 'do the accelerations' 'can't climb' etc etc Looking back at his past he has already adapted his style from track to GC contender, I think he will prepare again for the tour next year by training using climbing and attacking...Is that so difficult to do? Wiggins can beat Froome, he has more class and he is tougher mentally.
Shame really it's a contest we'll never see for as long as they're on the same team. I think even if Wiggo did train for sprinty hill accelerations, Froome-dawg would still be able to drop him - just a matter of, can Froomey make up more through attacking the mountains that Wiggo would win back on the TT? Depends entirely on the course, don't it.
BTW, I watched the tennis yesterday, then the tour after, and guess what - to avoid any risk of having the result spoiled, I stayed away from cycling forums! Mental!! Really, you'd have to be a bit of a tool to do anything else...
indeed and what a shame you cannot trust folk to not do spoilers in the title eh
I think there's as much chance of Wiggo dancing on the pedals up 20% climbs attacking off the bunch as there is Quintana winning a World Cup DH at Fort Bill. He's just not that type of rider.
indeed and what a shame you cannot trust folk to not do spoilers in the title eh
Seriously! Get over it.
Its a discussion about the favourite for the TDF, during the TDF. WTF did you expect us to be talking about?
I think he will prepare again for the tour next year by training using climbing and attacking...Is that so difficult to do?
He's been climbing for a long time, the issue is he's more of a tempo rider. Some riders have things they do better than others and they maximise on that rather than compromise across the board and become mediocre. Look at the specialist sprinters who struggle on the big mountain stages because they've focused on what makes them exceptional.
The way he rides is likely to work really well for some of the classics; no long mountains, just short sharp hills and miles and miles of flattish (compared to big mountains) terrain where getting into a rhythm is key. Look at Boonen and Gilbert for example. I think it'd be fantastic to see him winning some of the spring classics and would possibly remove some of the weighty expectations that come with grand tour starts.
Wiggins has made no secret of his love of the classics. He's already hinted Roubaix may be a target next year. If he puts a stone back on he'd be a formidable classics rider, if he learns how to handle a bike properly 😀
Seriously! Get over it.
Over what?
Its a discussion about the favourite for the TDF, during the TDF. WTF did you expect us to be talking about?
The TdF Favourite and the race. I never said this thread was a spoiler [ I had watched the stage live as well FWIW] and was never cross at it I simply suggested that it was easy to avoid spoiler titles and then we would not have to avoid here.
TBH i think doing blatant spoilers is pretty low and a shitty thing to do
I am not sure this is one mind from title alone
following in with next post
I still dont think this is a spoiler title but i do think they should not be allowed
All form page 1 FWIW
Yesterday I missed the end so i did have to avoid here in case of spoilers as did you which is a shame but such is life
Dupe
The issue with the Classics for Wiggo is they are very unpredictable and a good chunk of it comes down to luck. It could take years of him bing in the right form at the right time before he even has a opertuinity to win one.
And this is time he doesn't have. He's already said he fancies going back to the track for the Olympics as a swansong so that only gives him 2 years.
Sky's whole premise is that getting up a climb at the theoretical maximum pace will always be quicker than jumping in and out of attacks.
The reason though that attacks can be successful is if you lose the wheel of the man in front (because he attacked), then you lose the [much smaller than on the flat, but still relevant] assistance, plus maybe something psychological.
So if two men (Wiggins and Froome) rode up a climb, then Froome could win by attacking Wiggins.
If Wiggins had a strong team around him, pacing and protecting him up a climb, allowing him to achieve the optimal possible time, then it is likely that he would beat Froome, who would post a sub-optimal time by attacking.
Who is better?
Froome. Because he could also ride like Wiggins, but Wiggins couldn't ride like Froome.
Wiggins. Because in identical circumstances, his optimal time would be less than Froome's.
Who knows, who cares. It depends on the circumstances.
Wiggins has made no secret of his love of the classics.
Well he's Belgian. They love that sort of thing.
Do you think of Wiggins as a mentally strong rider? He's one of the strongest time trialers in the world, so obv brings a fearsome mentality from that background, but as a top GT rider it's not one of his strengths IMHO. He was absolutely all over the place in the Giro, for example, and seems to struggle to put consecutive seasons together.Fantombiker - MemberThere seems to be a general view that Wiggins can't 'do the accelerations' 'can't climb' etc etc Looking back at his past he has already adapted his style from track to GC contender, I think he will prepare again for the tour next year by training using climbing and attacking...Is that so difficult to do? Wiggins can beat Froome, he has more class and he is tougher mentally.
I think he is tough mentally in that if things are prepared perfectly, everything is in place, then he can really turn the screw and capitalise. He won't bottle it and will in fact grind his enemies underfoot. But it's when things aren't going so smoothly that real mental toughness asserts itself, and this wouldn't be something Wiggins is known for (IMHO).
Wiggins can beat Froome, he has more class and he is tougher mentally.
Time will tell eh, it'll certainly be interesting to find out.
Fantombiker - Member
Wiggins can beat Froome, he has more class and he is tougher mentally.
His bike flounce at the Trentino went against both points imo.
French seem to think Froome has a lot more class than Wiggins.
I reckon at 6ft2 Wiggins will always be at a physical disadvantage to Froome as a Tour GC rider.
Would love to see Wiggo at the classics.
His bike flounce at the Trentino went against both points imo.
Although his bike clearly has plenty of class as it parked its self neatly against the wall.
mrblobby - MemberI reckon at 6ft2 Wiggins will always be at a physical disadvantage to Froome as a Tour GC rider.
Froome is 6'1 - how is that going to be such an advantage?
Ah sorry, Wiggo is actually 6'3". A couple of inches in it. I think in terms of Tour weight, Froome is closer to his "normal" weight than Wiggo. Think this is an advantage for Froome.
True. Ok. Weight wise Brad shed a fair bit when moving from road to track didn't he?
I think now, they are both listed at 69kg.
Wiggo shed a lot to become a GC contender, and then needs to shed a lot more in the run up to a tour. Wouldn't believe stated weights either.
As someone who was 300m from the finish in Ax 3 Domaines it was of interest to compare the lines being taken by the finishers we videoed. Froome took the correct racing line whilst Porte didn't - maybe he was spent by then? It was darn hot and judging by the poor performance of Sky yesterday I think they gave a lot to generate Froome's GC position. Saw Froome arrive back with his team and start his warm down and he looked in fine fettle - proven by his performance yesterday.