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still energy from fossil fuels and we shouldn't be dependent on them.
But we still need backup energy supplies for renewable sources. You can support renewables yet still regard fracking as a valuable part of the overall 'energy mix'
we are still building crap houses, we are still wasting huge amounts of energy with a crap transport policy.
totally agreed.
Ninafan- I am happy to admit current renewable technology isn't good enough. But we do have nuclear to use as a stop gap and should be piling resources into that, not a last gasp for hydrocarbons.
Question for the oil/gas bods.
Why use the word "produce"?
'cause, its not like the ground actually produces oil or gas. Its just there already. Its being extracted, sure. But not produced. Produced implies new stuff is being made.
If the ground really did [i]produce[/i] oil, we'd all be laughing all the way home to centrally heated tents.
Why use the word "produce"?'cause, its not like the ground actually produces oil or gas. Its just there already. It's being extracted, sure. But not produced. Produced implies new stuff is being made.
If the ground really did produce oil, we'd all be laughing all the way home to centrally heated tents.
Convention I suspect. I guess produce does feel a little like that but extract isn't quite right either, it implies that you have to pump it out, which is far from true, the pressure of the fluid at the wellhead is anywhere from 3,000 to over 15,000 psi, you have to hold it back.
pro·duce/v. pr??dus, -?dyus; n. ?pr?dus, -yus, ?pro?dus, -dyus/ Show Spelled [v. pruh-doos, -dyoos; n. prod-oos, -yoos, proh-doos, -dyoos] Show IPA verb, pro·duced, pro·duc·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to bring into existence; give rise to; cause: to produce steam.
2. to bring into existence by intellectual or creative ability: to produce a great painting.
3. to make or manufacture: to produce automobiles for export.
4. to bring forth; give birth to; bear: to produce a litter of puppies.
[u]5. to provide, furnish, or supply; yield: a mine producing silver[/u]
it implies that you have to pump it out, which is far from true, the pressure of the fluid at the wellhead is anywhere from 3,000 to over 15,000 psi, you have to hold it back.
Err, not always no. There are plenty of production facilities including a load in the north sea where oil is either pumped out or some other form of artifical lift is used to extract the oil.
Sums it up nicely:
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/only-a-30-chance-of-cthulhu-say-fracking-experts-201204185135 ] Only a 30% chance of Cthulhu, say fracking experts[/url]
Err, not always no. There are plenty of production facilities including a load in the north sea where oil is either pumped out or some other form of artifical lift is used to extract the oil.
That's true, I simplified a bit. They don't usually start out that way though, and sometimes the artificial list is used not because it won't flow on it's own, but because it won't flow fast enough which can cause all sorts of other potential problems.
It still seems a bit strange to take gas out of the ground which may damage your drinking water supply and uses large amounts of water in areas where hosepipe bans are not unusual. The gas 'produced' not being sufficient to bring lower energy prices but maybe enough to give us security of supply for a century. Not addressing the real problems ..dependence on limited fossil fuels.
Nice pic toasty Is that a giant hardtail ?:-D
who cares? How many of us will alter our wasteful behavior for the benefit of the planet. We are all involved in the mess at some level but are really doing any thing about? are we bollocks and you are reading this you are as guilty of this wasted planet as anyone. I no one to follow me so its selfishly of no consequence to me what happens as long I gain todays benefits of world resources, those with kid should be cioncerned enough to do something.
Whenever I visit the Centre for Alternative Technology in Wales, it always suprises me how many large families there are looking around. Perhaps they are all very optomistic for the future, good for them.
on 2nd pint of Pure North so apologies for the poor spelling and anything else that offends.
damage your drinking water supply and uses large amounts of water in areas where hosepipe bans are not unusual
It will only damage your water supply if you use a well, which in the UK is exceptionally rare. And hosepipe bans are a one in ten year event- it's a very rare thing. They won't be taking it straight from the fresh water supply anyway.
As an aside, will it actually make energy cheap anyway
prices have tumbled in the US and IIRC they have gone from a net importer to a net exporter of fuel. So they might be less inclined to interfere in middle eastern regimes/wage war for cheap oil.
It's just more smoke. The 'technology will save us, just give us a bit more time' argument isn't sticking now, there is no more time, we're out. The last time this had any real credibility was maybe the 50's, but that's it now pretty much (short of that fusion reactor experiment actually working, then scaling up to commercial production).
The way to deal with every single question of limited resources issue is simple, obvious and entirely unworkable. Limit the population now, and reduce it over time to considerable less than it is now. There'll be enough of everything for everyone, for ages that way.
In between times, making better use of resources / energy would be a start.
We'll go extinct anyway in due course, everything does ...
😀
Not enough of it and too dear to get out of the ground
But as Oliver Letwins and Ozzy's school chums will have bet the herediatary farm on it it'll be piddling a gnats farts worth of gas from a well head near you soon.
Comparisons with the USA fail to take into account one fact: we're not in the USA, different rocks and everything
Somthing like 80% of the south east's water comes from aquifers. Cuddriller or quad driller or what ever there called are drilling through it at the mo. Is that not abit of a silly thing to be doing??
All info may or may not be true, I'm no expert!
According to the argus
Dr Jim Marshall, of Water UK, said: “The water companies’ main concern is the process could cause contamination by allowing gases such as methane into drinking water
Well this is an interesting twist!
It's from the Torygraph so will have the inevitable spin in the tail.
[i]"Under new laws, Government ministers, rather than local authorities, could have the final say on more "nationally significant infrastructure" projects, including onshore gas extraction.
Proposals in the Growth and Infrastructure Bill would would exempt shale gas plans from some local planning procedures and consultations.
The laws are aimed at stopping local blockages in the planning system to fast-track infrastructure and boost economic growth."[/i]
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/gas/9744917/Local-councils-to-be-stripped-of-right-to-decide-on-fracking.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/gas/9744917/Local-councils-to-be-stripped-of-right-to-decide-on-fracking.html[/url]
that's also been tried for nuclear power stations and waste repositories, and wind farms but it hasnt worked; instead there has been various embarrassing (for the Govt of the day) failures and u-turns
however it causes far fewer earthquakes
Whilst I bow to your greater knowledge, this bit doesn't fill me with delight 🙂
gordimhor - MemberAccording to the argus
Dr Jim Marshall, of Water UK, said: “The water companies’ main concern is the process could cause contamination by allowing gases such as methane into drinking water
Cool, all services delivered by Severn Trent, off to cancel our British Gas contract.
I am sceptical. CMD said it would not disfigure the countryside. I have seen pictures it does not look good.
In an interesting parallel with the wind farm picture someone posted on the previous page in response to your comment, this is what commercial scale fracking looks like. Each pad will have an average of around 5000 HGV truck visits, and produce millions of litres of contaminated water which in the UK will need to be processed on site or transported away for processing. Controversial stuff!
[img] 
[/img]
Thanks bigjim I haven't mastered the art of posting images from my mobile
bigjim - Where is that image from? I'm not sure but I don't think those are horizontal wells. The pads look a little close together for that to be the case. Those look (to me) to be older vertical wells.
As is often the case with emotive topics I suspect the footprint is going to be somewhere in the middle between nothing and huge.
[url= http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/08/12/banker-destroys-argument-for-shale-gas-in-a-short-letter/ ]Letter in FT [/url]