[Closed] Fox Fork Stanchion Wear-advice about longevity once it has happened (not a rant)

They will not be done under warranty by Mojo

I have dropped the legs 8 times in the last 13 months for cleaning and its still happened

hmm sounds like you looked after them. why no warranty? I'd be speaking to trading standards - fit for purpose?

have you argued with mojo? did you realise they have a standard warranty response of blaming the customer?

What tom thumb says. I'd be looking for repair. IMO its not dirt that causes the wear - its a dry bush due to the stupidly low amount of oil in them. Unless the bike is stored upside down the bush never gets any oil. I bet your wear is only on the non cartidge side.

however - I have a very old set of fox vanilla 32 that I bought for pennies in the full knowledge they are fubared with wear - Used a fair amount since with no issues at all bar oil leaking out of the worn side, These are very worn now to the ext4nt of serious play in them - but they still go boing and squish as they are supposed to.

I have two pairs of vanillas that have the same issue. I carried on using them without any noticeable decline in performance.

I now put fork oil on the stantions before use. Cycle the forks a few times to get the oil around the seals and ride

After use I make sure I am thorough about getting all the crap out from that hidden bit behind the brace section which is where the wear occurs.

Hose with water and then use a cloth/rag which i wrap around the stantion and pull each end of the cloth back and forwards to clean it then lube again.

Been doing this for circa 3 years since I discovered the wear.

As you say, it's oil and spring so less issues about the tolerances.

I used my Vanilla R130's for another couple of years after being told about the stanchion wear. I didn't do the slightest thing to maintain them and other than getting a bit leaky before I sold them on, they performed brilliantly the whole time I had them.

I bet your wear is only on the non cartidge side.

The main problem with fox is their seals are poor...they let dirt in and oil out. Ive not got round to it on mine yet, but looking seriously at some enduro seals. [url= http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id148.html ]HERE[/url] Proper individual oil seals and dust wipers, just the way it should be.

8 strips in 13 months really isnt enough for foxs (depending on how much you ride them and in what conditons). I strip every 3-4 rides in winter/wet crap and 5-6 in dry. Upside down storage is key. You'll be fine with them for years as long as you continue to maintain.

enduro seals are good but do increase fork stiction
Have a look on MTBR forum, a few guys use em with mixed results 🙄

I strip every 3-4 rides in winter/wet crap and 5-6 in dry.

How can any company justify this? There is no way I would buy Fox forks if they require that much maintenance. No other fork needs it so why? Do they really work that much better its worth it? I doubt it!

If you aren't confident stripping them to do this work (I would be, but there's going to be a huge amount of people who won't be) then if you ride twice a week you're going to need to take them back to the shop every fortnight, £20 a time MINIMUM (just a guess for an hours labour maybe???). So thats £40 a month and £480 a year.

What a load of crap.

enduro seals are good but do increase fork stiction

hmm sounds like you looked after them. why no warranty? I'd be speaking to trading standards - fit for purpose?

have you argued with mojo? did you realise they have a standard warranty response of blaming the customer?

I would not rest until I had a new or completely repaired pair of forks from Fox if that happened. Then I would sell them and get some Rockshox!

No way is that a reasonable response to get. Very much doubt it would stand up in a small claims court.

How can any company justify this? There is no way I would buy Fox forks if they require that much maintenance. No other fork needs it so why? Do they really work that much better its worth it? I doubt it!

No way is that a reasonable response to get. Very much doubt it would stand up in a small claims court.

if your talking about my comment of blaming customer it's actually very common practice - just very unusual in mtb circles.

Rockshox do and have similar failure rates to fox.

Never heard that at all. Source?

Has anyone put a £price on each of their rides?

Just a thought. If Fox recommend crazy amounts of services to qualify for their warranty repair then sure every ride you have is costing you ££££.

Are forks materials made down to a price nowadays? Open question.

The last three Rockshox's Ive owned have all failed within one month from new.

Never heard that at all. Source?

Most recent...
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rs-reba-help-can-this-happen-on-one-ride

I had the same thing happen really badly on my Pikes after a year's use - I cleaned out the seals, changed the oil and did the nail varnish fix - they've been fine since though not been used heavily. They don't leak oil any more.

Not much help once stanchions are worn, but I have always stored my bikes inverted (hung from roof), which keeps the felt washers under the seal bathed in oil and lubricates the seals.
I have a pair of 2004 and 2007 F100x forks with no sign of stanchion wear - and yes they are both ridden weekly in all sorts of conditions. They also only get serviced yearly, if that.

Just a thought. If Fox recommend crazy amounts of services to qualify for their warranty repair then sure every ride you have is costing you ££££.

I am being very honest and not having a go at Mojo even though I don’t agree with there policies.

I thought I was doing right in popping the seals/dropping the legs and re-lubing the forks 8 times in 13 months which is about right as I don’t use the bike much in winter as I use my Hardtail more.

But according to Mojo that the seals themselves are only warranted for 90 days. So unless you are servicing the fork at least every 15 hours riding (more if the ground is muddy – so I take that to mean every ride) and replacing the seals themselves every 3 months at least (£25 a go plus postage) - so 4 times a year. Then stanchion wear is not doable under warranty.

I asked how do you know when to replace the seals, and was told that is why Fox use coloured oil so you know when to change parts. But every time I have dropped the legs or popped the seals to clean the foam rings, it has still been blue in colour as oil remains and there is no sign of lots of dirt. So I have presumed the seals are fine, I think I was right in thinking this.

I was told that you are buying a premium product and quote ‘if you buy a Ford you would expect them to run 20,000 miles between service intervals, but if your buying a Ferrari you can expect them to need servicing every 3000 miles, cheap forks will continue to work with less servicing’.

I think this is ridiculous and I got quite annoyed on the phone yesterday (but I have calmed down now). Servicing them 8 times in 13 months is way, way, way more than any other fork I’ve ever owned. I have run multiple Rockshox and Marzoc forks for 4+ years with no stanchion wear.

But they will not warranty them so I am getting on with things – want to continue to use the forks as they still work very well. I will continue to drop the legs. As there is no way I’m going to spend £300+ and then over £100 a year in new seals for it to be pot luck if it happens again. I won’t buy Fox again.

I just want to know how long I will get out of the forks now they are marked? As they do and always have worked very well and I want to continue to enjoy using them.

Thanks for the advice so far and any other experiences will be welcomed.

Holy crap - so I should be taking my Fox forks apart every 2 weeks to avoid this potential damage?!

My old RS Judys only came apart once towards the end of their life & that was only to change the travel and my Reba's only get a service once every 6 months or so & the oil still looks nice & clean inside.

I can see a set of Revs on the horizon if the Fox forks really are that sensitive to being serviced.

Oh, and my bikes are hung from the front wheel on hooks. So the forks are hung upside down.

I may have been unlucky with fox but i have never had this problem with other fork makes.

I can see a set of Revs on the horizon if the Fox forks really are that sensitive to being serviced.

Hi, when servicing it's really important to clean the lowers out as 'solids' can sit at the bottom of the lowers around the bump stops.
Another issue can be cleaners as they have degreasing properties so will degrease the bushes. jet washes don't help either.
Not taking sides on this issue by the way just making the point other possible causes for stantion wear.

If i turn my forks upside down (talas 32s) and slide the lowers off to clean i will not lose teh damping oil from the right leg will i? if thats the case then a clean and relube is a 10 minute job at most on top of a clean.

If i turn my forks upside down (talas 32s) and slide the lowers off to clean i will not lose teh damping oil from the right leg will i? if thats the case then a clean and relube is a 10 minute job at most on top of a clean.

Also when you turn the bike back over, put the rebound on full slow (remembering how many clicks in it is) and compress the forks a few times to bleed any air out of the damper cart. unless your posh and have a FIT cartridge that is 🙂

Cheers - will do this very often! If i over oil the foams it will just dissipate right?

Cheers - will do this very often! If i over oil the foams it will just dissipate right?

From Riks experiences it looks like mojo are taking a leaf out of the superstar customer service book.
I have a set of 05 talas with wear on the stanchions I've filled & polished he worn part and am just going to ride them until they die.

I'm v slack about maintenance by most folks' standards (especially most people on here), but My Van 36 RC2s are fine after 2 years, one full Mojo service and a couple of micro services at about £15 a pop. I leave the bike upside down from time to time, and sometimes squirt some teflon dry lube on the stanchions. There are faint wear lines on the stanchions, but nowt major and the forks feel ace still. I ride all year round, often in gritty filth. My other, newer Van 36Rs are showing no wear at all after around 6 months - no servicing at all, occasional upside down treatment.

By the way - anyone tried coil Lyriks and coil 36s and have an opinion on their relative performances?

I had a problem a few years ago regarding a warranty issue on some Talas. I got into some quite heated telephone conversations with Chris Porter, and received them back with nail varnish on the crown. I wasn't satisified in any way shape or form and vowed never to buy Fox again. However, I rang Fox USA and after conveying my dissatisfaction they sent me a spanking new set in return for my old ones. They were great.

Having said that, I have now had to deal with Mojo on numerous occasions and I can say they're possibly the best company I've dealt now with. Helpful, good advice, polite, and more importantly - gave me what I wanted!!

If you do a search on STW there's so much written about the Fox service intervals - personally I've rarely touched all the ones I've had and never had a problem. Is it wear or discolouration due to some lubricant? I never spray anything on the stantions but Stendec crystal glide (silicon), and always store them upside down.

Mojo REALLY p1ss me off with their "you are buying a Ferrari not a Ford" argument. Unless you can prove you have serviced them every 15 hours and changed the seals every 3 months they won't warranty them. My Specialized E100 forks and Magura Durins are arguably much more Ferrari than my old Talas, but just require a basic service once a year. And from the demo bikes I tried over the weekend, work much better as well.

Mine have the same issue, I first noticed it about a year ago (fox 36 floats) on the left leg. I'm not going to bother doing anything about it, they still go up and down ok. I don't bother to service them, just give them a blast of gt85 before a ride maybe.

I wonder what causes it. I have some 36r's from 2005, and they're fine still despite only being serviced once in five years, and never being stored upside down.

just give them a blast of gt85 before a ride maybe.

A mate has some floats on his orange 5 with an horrible amount of wear, there is no play & the forks perform okay & they have Been like it for over a year. The wear appeard after 3 rides.my advice run em until they die but play in bushes should not be ignored.

Before you whizz off and buy some RS Revelations thinking that they'll solve all your problems, bear in mind that the dropouts on my 2008 pair disintigrated... Fortunately I noticed this while washing the bike rather than when flying down a hill 😯

I'd take stantion wear over disintigrating dropouts any day of the week, though neither faults are acceptable for < 2 yr old high end forks.

Also take note that my mate's 2008 RS Reba's have horrendous stantion wear, although he's never serviced them which will be why.

This is mainly experience from servicing 40's.. but applies throughout.

I've taken to soaking the foam rings in 50:50 float/7wt before putting them in. I'll also do try my hardest to get a bit of float fluid on the bushings too as well as a smear all over the stanchion before reassembly. Seals get a smear of high quality grease too.. pedros stuff normally.

Whenever the forks come apart, they get new oil, If I *have to* reuse seals/wipers, they get a thorough clean out and drying.. sometimes they have to be reused but for the most part I'd rather do a clean up/oil swap than wait till I have new seal kit. If its really mucky in there then I'll clean out and degrease the lowers before contaminating the new oil.
From a seasons riding DH in Whistler, our guides 40's will get 4-6 services and have zero stanchion wear. With no or just one service.. chances are that there'll be significant wear and need replacement stanchions. 36's will probably get 2 services and 32s just one.. but the intensity of use is quite different.

If you're getting stanchion wear with clean oil, clean foam, clean seals then I'd suspect that dry bushings are a likely cause.

Inverting your forks is definitely a good thing, but bear in mind that if your bike rests on bars/saddle then oil will work its way down to the bushings. Probably getting all the middle bushing lubed, but maybe only the forward side of the upper bushing.
Conversely, hanging the bike from its front wheel against a wall may only see the rearward side of the top bushing get any oil.

So, you may see wear on the front of your stanchion more if you hang it from a wall hook, or rear when you sit it upside down... make sense?

You should be able to tell where your wear is coming from when the forks are apart. Assuming that's why you figure its dirt held in the seals and above the foam then you could also try tighten the spring a little around the seals. I don't know how to concisely explain how to do it, but you just undo how its fastened, then make it shorter.

Do I think servicing this is too much work? Absolutely not, but then I find fettling with bikes very de-stressing 🙂

Just wondering ... do the fox rear shocks, floats, suffer from wear as much as their forks?

I only have one set of fox forks on a secondhand bike, these are ok so far, but all the fox rear shocks seem to have a much harder wearing thicker coating on them, so why don't the forks have the same coating, type of seals, on their fork stanchions?

I've noticed before that older forks had what looked like a darker much thicker harder wearing coating, on new forks the coatings on the stanchions seems to be a very light coloured thin coating ... just wondering if manufacturers are making then with built in obsolescence?

Just wondering ... do the fox rear shocks, floats, suffer from wear as much as their forks?

I think I remember reading somewhere that DT Swiss are bringing out a new range of forks with colossal service intervals, maybe they'll last longer. I've killed both Fox and RS in the Peak with regular, year-round riding, even with regular servicing.

My guess is that if Califoria were wet and geologically based on gritstone that forks generally would be better sealed and more wear resistant, but maybe I'm just cynical 😉

could a grease port/bleed valve put in up by the foam ring work in increasing the service intervals? You could pump in a small amount of fresh oil every ride to keep it lubed up.

is this really as common on Rockshox as it is on Fox??

a quick non scientific poll of local riding buddies revealed 4 worn fox forks and no rockshox. Same usage patterns, riding terrain.

My own rockshox are still going fine after 2.5 years, previous fox were showing wear after < 1 year.

Out of people I know it's 1 rockshox and 1 fox with worn stanchions.

could a grease port/bleed valve put in up by the foam ring work in increasing the service intervals? You could pump in a small amount of fresh oil every ride to keep it lubed up.

like this from the old manitou forks?

[img] [/img]

aye but with oil, a more current example would be the bleed ports on the Totem forks but placed at the top of the fork lower.

Right on my 2009 TALAS - do i just (like on rockshox) turn the forks upside down, remove the foot nuts and knock the rods into the fork legs, slide the lowers off (will i need a large quantity of oil?) - clean and lube foams and replace the lowers?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/workshop-service-the-seals-on-your-fox-32-fork-25020

Like that? or do i need some 7wt oil?

GeeWavetree-What talas are they, 32/36, R/RL/RLC? Essentially the same with some slight differences depending on model.

32 rlc

2009 TALAS 140 (RL, RLC dampers)
FOX 7 wt. Damper 160.0
Spring-side Oil Bath 10.0
FOX Float Fluid - Main Chamber 3.0, Neg Chamber 3.0

Same as rockshox, but its open bath damper in right leg.

EDIT. Should just give the [url= http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/oil_volumes.htm ]OIL VOLUMES TABLE[/url]!

so when i whip the lowers off 10ml of oil will come out of the right leg and none from the left?

so when i whip the lowers off 10ml of oil will come out of the right leg and none from the left?

if i do it with the bike upside down how will oil come out of the open bath - surely it will be in the top of the stanchion

Marzocchi mx comps - had for 8 years and not be serviced and no problems. So why do people go with fox. Fox forks cost so much and you have to do all that servicing. WHY???

if i do it with the bike upside down how will oil come out of the open bath - surely it will be in the top of the stanchion

Marzocchi mx comps - had for 8 years and not be serviced and no problems. So why do people go with fox. Fox forks cost so much and you have to do all that servicing. WHY???

OOPS

Stupid q - when i take the lowers off do i let the air out? rebound fully off or does it not matter??

Nope, the air is in a sealed cart in the left stanchion. Leave the rebound, but if you turn compression fully on (and remember clicks) it will help with putting the lowers back on (stops damper compressing as youre pushing lowers on).

just could not knock the rods thru thats all. Suppose a plastic broom does not have much purchase 😉

You need one of these...
[img] [/img]

was using a plastic version of this:

[img] [/img]