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Last week I fitted some brand new Fox 36 forks from Merlin.
When I put the front wheel in (Chris King ISO hub) - if I grab the fork brace and the wheel I can detect a tiny amount of play.
I can decide if its the hub bearings or the fork has been machined too much...the wheel does slide in pretty easy.
When I say tiny play, it really is but still, expensive forks and hub shouldnt be like this should they?
Anyone had anything similar?
cheers
Have you tried adjusting the hub bearings to see if that solves the problem?
No, but if Im honest I've never touched the hub in all the time Ive had it, bearings run smooth so never needed to.
Also woul;n't know where to start, maybe I'd best learn 😳
I've seen this on two bikes, mine which runs an 2009 36 Talas with Hope hubs and a friends who runs 2011 Talas 36 on Specialised Rovals.
When you tighten the axle does it pull the right hand stanchion in towards the hub or does it just 'float'?
Mine float, effectively all the axle is doing is clamping the hub to the left hand leg.
I get around this by tightening the axle and then squeezing the lowers together whilst at the same time doing the clamps up.
Also woul;n't know where to start, maybe I'd best learn
Dead easy.
There's a small allen bolt on the locking collar.
Undo that. Tighten the locking collar then re tighten the allen bolt.
I find the best way to turn the locking collar is to leave the allen key in the allen bolt and use it as a lever to turn the collar.
I can't look till tomorrow after work now but firstly I'll try adjusting the ore-load on the bearing - dirtydog, I know what you mean, can only tighten it so far as there isn't loads of thread on that axle before it 'bottoms out'. That idea about pulling them in a bit and then clamping makes sense.
I'll know better when I get my hands on it tomorrow and will report back.
Thanks for the replies, very helpful 🙂
Thanks for that stu, it'll save me getting grease all over the laptop when I'm doing it:)
Wasn't the bearings - its exactly as dirtydog described, good couple of mm of float, can be sorted by pushing leg in and clamping but not really that impressed when you consider the price of these things
Took the bike to Merlin, showed them the fork and the play - got told, yeah, that'll be fine.
I'm sure it will but interested in others who have found the same sort of play or not!?
I think the 36s do this generally. I've got some 2009 36s on my Covert and if I don't fold out the axle lever to do them up hard there's just that touch of play. Other people with 36s have told me the same. You just need to tighten the axle a little more.
The problem is that tightening the axle doesn't get rid of the play in the right hand lower, the axle simply tightens the hub against the left hand lower, it doesn't pull the right hand leg in!
I don't know whether it's a design feature that I fail to understand or a fault (seems unlikely) but I have not been able to get to the bottom of it, IMO it has nothing to do with bearings or hubs.
The problem is that tightening the axle doesn't get rid of the play in the right hand lower, the axle simply tightens the hub against the left hand lower, it doesn't pull the right hand leg in!I don't know whether it's a design feature that I fail to understand or a fault(seems unlikely) but I have not been able to get to the bottom of it,IMO it has nothing to do with bearings or hubs.
^^^This exactly! It's not just me then, thats good to know.
I think once the right hand leg is pushed in and the QR are done up then hopefully shouldn't be any movement - just wonder if over time the leg 'springs back' - just seems a bit weird
Mine do this too. Just a crap design from fox again. Squeeze lowers together before doing locking each legs lever as mentioned above.
I just fail to understand why there should be a need to push/squeeze the lowers together before doing up the QR and clamping everything down, you would have thought the axle would have done this!
It would be nice to to get to the bottom of this! I'm hoping someone from Loco, Mojo or TF comes along to explain.
I had this problem with 36s and Hope hubs - small amount of side-to-side play when everything was done up. Either the bearings aren't seated properly in the hub or they are worn and need replacing.
With hope hubs the axle pushes against the spacer, which pushes against the inner race, connecting tube, other inner race, other spacer and left fork leg. If the axle is done up, and the bearings correctly fitted, then the only place that play can occur is in the bearings. If the bearings aren't in all the way then there are gaps in the system which makes the play worse. If the bearings aren't fitted properly then doing up the axle tighter or using the right leg to compress it will help, but the only way to get rid of it is to check the bearings are pushed in all the way and if so then put in new bearings.
Using the right leg to compress the bearings isn't a good idea as it won't be running straight and will, likely, wear unevenly.
The design fox use is quite common - it's almost identical to what was used on my trials motor bike back 10 years ago.
I'd check the bearings are seated properly - give them a good whack and also check if the connecting bar is loose. If they are then it depends if it's noticeable when riding - if so then new bearings are the only fix.
I have 2010 Float 36's they have been fine with 3 different Hope Hubs and a Mavic hub, and my 2007 36's were fine to.
Bearings where changed for Enduro and it made no difference.
A friend has the same issue with Specialised Rovals on a 2011 160 Talas.
To be honest I've pretty much given up on finding a solution to the problem.
I can only speak about my experience based on hope hubs but if everything is set up correctly then the only place side-to-side movement can occur is between the inner and outer race of the bearings and a new set of bearings completely solved it for me.
I'd look carefully at your set up and try and work out exactly where the play is happening.
Found the problem!
@Dirtydog
stick your bike upside down
notice how much thread of the axle is protuding from the screw end
take front wheel out
put axle back in without wheel and screw up tight (you can't break it)
now notice the extra ammount of thread protruding - therefore it can be scred in further!
now leave the axle where it is and look the main shaft between the fork legs
on the side from where you screw you'll notice that there is a step o the axle that protrudes inside
the hub sits against this step on the axle and not against the inside of the fork
is as if the step hasn't been machined back far enough
when you look at it its clear that its the QR levers that are doing all the work
I'm not so worried now
maybe I'll stick a washer on the outside of the fork leg s that the step doesn't protrude past the inside face of the fork leg
Does any of that make sense?
The step in the axle is meant to push up against the hub spacers and hold the inner races of the bearings in place. It doesn't have to line up exactly with the fork which then clamps onto the axle.
It doesn't sound like an axle problem from your description as you can screw it in further without the wheel in, so it should be clamping the inner races in place. If it's not then the bearings haven't been fitted properly. If it is then the bearings have play and need changing.
The axle should clamp all of the hub towards the disk mount side of the fork.
The idea of the other leg being free floating is so it dosent load the bushings sideways.My Bos forks do exactly the same.
The axle should clamp all the hub and spacers towards the disc side leg.I had a bike that used hope hubs and you needed to tighten the axle very tight to remove the play.
Hopefully this diagram from hope will help explain the system.
Doing up the axle clamps the two 20mm spacer (no. 6), the two inner races of the bearings (10) and the centre tube (2) between the lip on the axle and the left fork leg. The right leg doesn't have to be against the hub and just clamps onto the axle.
So if everything is clamped up like above then the only way there can be play is if the outer races of the bearings move relative to the lower ones.
If it isn't properly clamped (eg. the axle has bottomed out in the fork before claping the components) then the inner races can move on the axle. If the axle is bottoming out then it can be fixed by putting a spacer between the lip on the axle and the hub.
You should not try and clamp the fork legs together - it's not the way the system was designed and will be a temporary fix at best and will ruin your forks at worst because the stanctions will wear unevenly.
kane & nicolaisam - I think you're both saying roughly the same thing, I understand where you're coming from regarding everything being clamped toward the disk side and the lip on the axle being used to pull the spacers in, I'll take a picture.
nicolai - if your forks are similar, do you not push your fork leg in to take the slack thereby avoiding uneven loading of the bushings?
kane -
I think this is the way forwardIf the axle is bottoming out then it can be fixed by putting a spacer between the lip on the axle and the hub.
Yoshimi- No i let the forks go to there natural position.
the slack dosent matter,makes no difference as long a the hub is tight.when i do the leg clamp up it stops the leg from moveing.
nicolaisam - thank you 🙂
Problem solved! I've created some shims myself from real shimstock.
Easiest way was to make a custom one at work!!
I suggest others do the same.