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Is the big tide starting to turn back, I wonder?
This was the first big explicit push at this that I read:
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-enduro-vs-trailbike-marriage-and-divorce.html ]Inadvertently, the trailbike also created the perfect launch pad for professional enduro racing. For a fleeting moment, “enduro” and “trailbike” were interchangeable terms, and initially, that marriage supercharged the technical performance of the basic trailbike. But, somewhere along the line, while bike and suspension makers rushed to stretch the trailbike’s performance further towards the downhill realm, we forgot that that the magic of a good trailbike is that it enhances all aspects of the riding experience. An enduro racing bike has a much more singular mission statement.[/url]
🙂
I've ridden my SS Scandal a couple of times in the last week having not used it much recently. My other bike isn't a mince tank gnarpoon, it's a Ti 456 with 140mm forks but there's enough of a difference between the two with the forks and different wheels. But anyway I'd forgotten how fast and how much fun the Scandal is. My local trails are fast woodland singletrack and the speed and sharpness of the Scandal are ideal. It's perfect for Glentress and a lot of my other local riding spots too, the only place nearby I'm better off with the 456 is Innerleithen. I would like a nice full suss for there but I can't justify another bike at the moment and it's more riding I need more than a new bike really.
I test rode a g150 a couple of years ago, absolutely loved it but at the time thought it's too much bike for just riding about.
The chap who was working for the shop told me would I be interested in a bike with similar geometry but shorter travel.
He then told me to wait a few months and whyte then unleashed the t130 and it's pretty much my ideal bike.
I have recently built up a Salsa Spearfish, currently absolutely loving it. It's fast and comfortable and actually really fun to ride. its now my go to bike, unless I am riding something a bit gnar. One thing I want to do though is slacken it out slightly. Sure it's an xc bike, but I like slightly slacker head angles. So I am toying with fitting an Angleset to it.
definitely wouldn't get a CX bike, if your coming from a 140mm+ ish MTB bike.
I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I've got a proper road bike and I'm about to sell it.
If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you'd be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).
Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.
There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.
But yeah lighter tyres.
You want a nice scandal 29er v2 frame. I just so happen to know where there's one going...!
@ sterns
I found that really interesting and can relate to a lot of what you are saying.
I have been riding mtb's since 1986 and offroad before that and kept riding my 90's bike for a long while. I tried different 'trends' and buying what was recommended from around 2008 till fairly recently. But something was always missing.
Then tried something 'different'* and really have got on with it. Still have other bikes I ride but I know which is first choice/go to.
*For [i]me[/i] it was a fatbike but I'm not trying to say that is right for others. Just that it's worth looking for what is right for [i]you.[/i]
I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I've got a proper road bike and I'm about to sell it.If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you'd be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).
Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.
There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.
Pretty much the same experience and thoughts here. I've kept the cx as a general getting about bike though
rigid 29er, narrow bars
I found anything less than 660mm made the wheels feel too big and unweildy.
Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.
Exactly that. Same thing as early 90s with discs, big wheels and modern geometry. Fab (for me).
Anthem SX is exactly made for what you describe. I bought one after a Whyte t129 and really like it so far. Very capable xc with a little fun chucked in.
Exactly why I went for a trigger from Paul's over the Jekyll. Previously I'd had bikes like the Giant Reign X0-amazing on the few decent downhills I get to ride, but compromised elsewhere. I almost bought a Jekyll before realising that for the type of riding I do the trigger would be so much better. I wasn't wrong. It's so fast through the flowy singletrack that I ride and still more capable than I will ever be when things point downhill. Sooooo glad I didn't get the "bigger" bike. Despite the marketing telling me otherwise..
I think shorter travel, light, fast bikes are brilliant. You can have a light and very capable bike that is more suited to most riding. I think this is where modern tech developments have really helped, because you can have light and wide tubeless rims/tyres on a more XC oriented machine, along with light 120mm forks and a dropper, and a good mix of long, low, mildy-slack geo. There's now far less of a compromise between light/strong/cheap which helps.
As part of my prep for the Alps later in the year I've made a concerted effort to get out on my bigger bike. Whilst it's very competent I'd ride my stooge on most things I take it on and not be that much slower. For probably 85% of my riding I don't need the big bike, I do enjoy the 15% though.
If you're not faster on a big bike then you either live somewhere smooth or you're a mincer 🙂
I would love to have a go on the new carbon Kona Hei Hei.
Same awesome geometry as my Process 111 in a much lighter chassis and 100mm fork - a sign of the future for XC bikes or a evolutionary dead end?
[quote=molgrips ]If you're not faster on a big bike then you either live somewhere smooth or you're a mincer
steep & rocky, maybe.
everywhere else, no.
molgrips - MemberThis would be my everyday MTB if I had a truckload of cash lying around - Horsethief:
The only thing wrong with the Horsethief is that it's not a Spearfish..
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http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/weeksy59/Salsa/_57_zps5e62ae99.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
steep & rocky, maybe.
That's what I said - somewhere smooth.
This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it's still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.
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I'm loving my spearfish at the moment. Its a fantastic bike. Perfect for 60% of what I do. Still love being back on my fatty or my Five mind! I have just ordered an Angleset from Superstars to fit it. Which will slacken the bike out to 69deg which is the same head angle as the newer ones. Hoping this will make things a little more forgiving on some of the downs. Without killing the fantastic climbing i'm enjoying on it currently. Next step will be to drill the frame for stealth dropper routing.
after owning 'bigger' bikes for a long time; and having recently moved to a new location with 2 small kiddies ( 2.5yrs and 6 months) I knew I needed to make the right purchase for a change and keep to it. after a lot of research and chatting to LBS etc. I settled on a 2016 Whyte T130s with pike fork upgrade. This is perfect for the moors and 3 monthly trip to BPW/Wales. Fast and fun when needed, with enough burliness for the reds and blacks in wales when required. not exactly an 'XC' bike though, more trail all rounder
Newer XC geo isn't that steep - ha 69.5 on whyte 29c,
This - have the 29C and it's perfect for where I live. Lighter, no hassle to keep on the track maintenance wise (even front mechs are fine on a double) and it can go as fast as I dare these days. Probably could go 5% quicker on a 100/120 full suss, but I suspect it'll just be a precursor to a more serious off. I like the feeling of speed everywhere on the hardtail, even if I'm not actually as fast if that makes sense. Think there has been tendency to pigeon hole carbon short travel hardtails as race bikes since full suss / long travel hardtails took over the majority of the market, but they are still more than capable for most of the country.
Funds are the limit here - however just figure out what your ride 90% of the time and buy accordingly.
100mm 29er, (CZAR) covers 90% for me.
The rest is sorted by a Flux for moderately chunky days and winter duties.
(Spearfish is/was a great choice too).
This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it's still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.
how can I argue against logic that that. I'm getting a patriot...
I have a Specialized Camber Evo Expert, 120 mm weighing in at 11,5 kg with light wheels and heavy tires. Expect it to weigh about 11 with race tires and wheels.
The ideal solution is to have a big bike AND a short travel one, obvs.
Patriot? GW does that on his road bike blindfolded while rolling a doobie.
I rented a SC Bronson for the weekend in the Sierra Nevada and found it to be an utterly hateful machine after my steel hardtail. The trails here are steep, rocky and challenging and I would have been far happier on my XC bike. Instead I had a heavy-ish enduro bike with a 66 degree head angle with a front wheel that wandered about and never went where I wanted it. I couldn't punch the bike up short technical climbs and downhill it just took all the nuance of line choice out of the equation. Plus it see-sawed around like a drunk thing. I hated it. I may not have been able to clatter into a rock garden at full speed on my Shand 29er but I would certainly have been faster and had more fun overall on it.
That's similar to how I felt with my Five. Going down or along, it was awesome. But get out of the saddle and sprint up a hill? No chance, felt like riding in treacle.
I grew up from starting mtb in the early 90s with (proper) XC bikes and now I've come back to the modern incarnation (Spesh Epic) I find my riding much better for it.
And I happily stuffed it down everything bar the blacks at BPW and it's still better than I am, so I have no fears on its capabilities.
Yes, I started mtb-ing late 80s on steel hardtail. There was nothing at Downieville (home of a famous DH race) that I couldn't have comfortably handled on my Shand - the trails were steep, technical, narrow. Maybe on a wide and fast Whistler-style DH with big jumps or drops I would have wanted the Bronson, but that's not my preferred type of riding anyway.
proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!
nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down.......
stevenmenmuir - Member
it's more riding I need more than a new bike really
Someone talking sense!
maxtorque - Member
proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!
I am forty...
maxtorque - Member
nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down.......
But that's what I'm on 🙂 Well, 100mm, but what's an inch matter?
Most trail and Enduro bikes, 130 - 160mm travel appear to be good all rounders these days - you can take em to BPW or Alps but you can ride them all day or through the fields to your local country pub. Same goes for your aggressive hardtails (though not as comfy on the rough stuff). If you want a comfy XC bike that can do trails well enough then a short 29'er or anthem style bike is where id be putting my money. If you want a nose down arse up XC bike, then hardtail, big wheels is what you need.
What's all this 'comfy' shite? If you want comfy, plant your fat ass on the sofa and drink beer... Otherwise, toughen up princess, get out the damn saddle, and ride!
The only good reason to get any suspension (front or back) is to go faster on the rough stuff. Not for 'comfort'!
What a joker. After 4 hours of rocky trails on my hardtail, regardless of fitness, I fatigue and struggle to keep up with friends on FS bikes. There is little respite, I have to be out the saddle on rough terrain and that takes its toll, sweet cheeks.
Thanks for the idiotic response you awesome person you.
I will be making the move to a short travel 29er next, I have generally been considering a Smuggler or Process 111, however I keep coming back to the new Orbea Occam TR carbon, I think for majority of my riding this would be an ample bike and more than likely much quicker at covering ground than the other two which would be a bonus for me riding straight from home. The New Kona hei hei is also an intriguing bike, it looks like another great option for people who don't want full on a XC riding position but still a fast and capable bike.
proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!
Will be 43 years young this June, and easily the best "mountain bike" I've had so far, in many years of riding and many bikes.
Surprisingly comfortable for a hardtail, definitely some witch craft going on in the frame. And the full carbon Easton seat post adds some smoothness with all that extension, despite the large 30.9mm diameter
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seems singletrack mag liked it much when they reviewed the previous year model (same frame):
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/reviews/giant-xtc-advanced-29er-2/ ]http://singletrackworld.com/reviews/giant-xtc-advanced-29er-2/[/url]
Having recently done two contrasting local events, Gorrick (XC) enduro and QECP (Gravity) enduro, I'd say both XC and Enduro events are very popular- there were nearly 100 riders in the Gorrick 4 lap race! Interestingly I saw a lot more bling short travel 2015/16 bikes at Gorrick than equivalently priced Gnarpoons at QECP.
Horses for courses. I'm lucky to have both. My XC bike is a short travel 29 FS, similar geo to a Camber. It does the majority of my riding. However, as I have a big 160mm enduro bike as well, then a significant proportion of my riding is steeper, techier, etc. Some days I want to do one, some the other- I'd always like to ride more on the big bike though!
Trend wise, I thought the current trend is the 120-130mm trail bike anyway? (Whyte t130, Cannondale Habit, Devinci Django, etc?) Maybe XC bikes are the next big thing though, but I'm so ahead of the curve I've just bought a new Enduro bike... 😉 #nuDuro
I'd go back to the tyres thing as a starter - I soloed 24/12 on a mix of a Blur 4X with 2.25 Racing Ralphs front and rear and a Ragley Ti with similarly quick tyres. I was never going to trouble the podium, but they were happily top 20 paced. Unless your Bandit is built super heavy, I'd have thought it'd be just fine. Or stick something like a Rock Razor on the back with a grippier tyre up front.
Cross bikes are ace in their own way. Mine's been over Cut Gate and various other Peak monstrosities - it's not as quick as a full-on mountain bike, but it's great for mixing up easy trails, back lanes, proper roads etc. I've done stuff like head over the tops on the Pennine Bridleway then back over Holme Moss on the road taking in stretches of bridleway and back lanes in between.
You won't be as quick on technical stuff as you would on a full-on mtb, but unless you're a Strava victim, who cares? Since when has riding bikes been just about being faster, different bikes are just, well, different. If you do get a crosser though, disc brakes are a good call.
I am of course, old and slow and fat and unfit...
Occam TR carbon would be an amazing all round bike, along with a Smuggler carbon if it exists. Been riding our demo Occam AM quite a bit, really fun bike.
bensales - Member
That's similar to how I felt with my Five. Going down or along, it was awesome. But get out of the saddle and sprint up a hill? No chance, felt like riding in treacle.
Oranges are great when you arn't pedalling or braking.
I recently posted a topic about hunting for a short travel, slack 29er, in an effort to consolidate two bike (Sherpa and Trance). After a bit of thinking and a spreadsheet with build weights, the 29er frames on the list (there was a budget constraint) were no lighter (Smuggler frame is heavier than the trance!) than the trance and had 20mm less travel. Was cheaper to build up the Trance frame I already have.
Come to the conclusion I can't do with less than 4 bikes:
-29er hardtail (midweek xc training rides, mixed group included CX'ers)
-4x hardtail for pump track/bmx tracks
-Enduro gnarpoon (Steep, technical, fast riding - Bringewood, bucnell, revs)
-Trail bike (for everything in between the 29er and gnarpoon)
I have a XC bike and it is perfect for 99% of what I do but I keep looking at something with more travel for the odd away day. I keep telling myself that it would hardly get used and I am better off renting something when I need it.
Yet somehow my ebay watch list and internet history is full of longer travel bikes. I think I am about 2 pub trips away from buying something online when I get back 😀
I keep telling myself that it would hardly get used and I am better off renting something when I need it.
I'm similar, with 2-4 trips to wales a year.
This thread is interesting - I have a modified Anthem 29, so 100mm, AC Wheels 1x11 Carbon bars...
But cantr help thinking I should buy this for short course racing...
http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/Giant-XTC-Advanced-27.5-0-Ex-Team-Bike--Red-.html
...and put a 120mm fork on the Anthem/buy a play bike. I'd still want the anthem for 12/24's though.
😐
Pivot Mach 4; probably the most versatile bike I've ever had.
23.5lbs, 120mm/115mm travel, takes internal dropper, seems durable enough. That's the same weight as a few Sworks epics I've weighed, but it's a load more capable than those though as it's a bit more "trail" geometry than XC race.
For the Horsethief lovers out there, my medium Alu Split Pivot version is for sale with a CK headset and BB, and with or without Pikes too.
Any interest - drop me an email? Email address in profile.