[Closed] foot paths - what's the worst that could happen?

I had a farmer wave a spade at me once from the other side of a gate as I was opening it to get through.

[i]strong farmers accent
Your not meant to bring your bike through here[/i]

well I am and you can't stop me

[i]
I'll have you with this spade sonny (waving it around)[/i]

really, I wouldn't try that if I were you.... as I walk through the gate get on my bike and ride off... he didn't try.

Kev

I ride footpaths all the time with no problem.
I think it makes a big difference what type of footpaths you ride though.
I wouldn't try to make my way along one of the footpaths on the Malverns on a sunny Sunday afternoon, that would just be asking for trouble.
I can spend hours linking up the footpaths around remote villages on the Worcestershire/Shropshire border and not meet another cyclist, pedestrian or land owner to complain about me being there.

Think I've had 1 experience of walkers telling me I shouldn't be on the footpath I was on - and several experiences of of walkers telling me I shouldn't be on the [b]bridleway[/b] I was on. Have had people going in the same direction as me on a go slow right in the middle of the path but you get that on bridleways too.

So, you have a legal right to pass and repass along a public footpath while pushing a bike.

If a land owner or their agent does collar you then give em 50p for trail damage and leave via the quickest reasonable route, if you are 90% of the way along the FP you could argue to carry on, if you've just got onto the FP turn back. Anyone else complaining about your presence on an FP just say "silly isn't it" and carry on, don't get all defensive, shouty or sweary.

thebrick, the problem with that case is its pedestrain crossing, not a footpath through someone's garden...

This is why I typed this bit.

Although this was not a case on a public footpath, it was on a crossing starting on a footway (i.e. what we think of as a pavement beside the road which is illegal to cycle on) the case clearly establishes that if pushing a bike you are a pedestrian.

I read several times on the web (not 100% sure how accurate they are) that a bike is not a natural accompaniment so you can't use that argument.

This dose seem to be ta sticking point but I have not seen a decent argument that pushing a bike or carrying a bike is any different to pushing or carrying any other goods.

where exactly you ridding in the west pennine moors? there are loads of bridleway and conscetionaryy ones around the area esp Rivvy [not all marked on OS - where exactly are you riding?
in reality no local walking groups will occasionally say something to you. the bigger the group of them or you the more likely a comment is. Riding paths when it is a busy sunny weekend is asking for trouble IMHO
DONK loads of walkers confront you but you are just going too fast to notice so your mates get the grief instead.

I can spend hours linking up the footpaths around remote villages on the Worcestershire/Shropshire border and not meet another cyclist, pedestrian or land owner to complain about me being there.

heh! sorry Brick!

No bother. This is the internet where things should not be taken too seriously.

The specific example of whether a bike is or isn't a "natural accompaniment" to a person walking/pushing along a footpath appears not to have been tested in law.

Certainly this was the argument incoherently made to me by the halfwit who pushed me in the chest in his use of "reasonable force" to eject me from his land at the top of Altar Lane near Bingley some time ago.

Link to thread here - http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bingley-riders-landowner-alert

When I queried this, the local RoW officer appeared unable to challenge the landowner's position in asserting their rights against me as a trespasser.

It appears, in the Bradford area at least, that a pushed bike on a footpath, is not considered a natural accompaniment and that you are, therefore, trespassing when you do so.

That said, I've ridden the trails (BWs & FPs) round Bingley for years and very rarely encountered any objection (I always try to be "nice"). The objection and disproportionate reaction of the aforementioned landowner was a complete one-off (I'd ridden along it without objection in the past but pushed that day due to the appearance of new, more assertive, signage) and quite unsettling. I don't use that footpath to push my bike along these days.

Around Turton,Edgworth,

If we have to give way to horses on bridleways (which I do, it's only good manners), why aren't motor vehicles obliged to do the same to all on higher access levels?

Most landowner exchanges go along the line of:
'You can't take that bike across there'
'Bet I can'
'Go on then'
.. and settling down to watch me hurt myself.

Apart from the Earl of Cardigan who has been miserable about public access of all sorts to Savernake every time I've had the misfortune to bump into him.

Anyone else complaining about your presence on an FP just say "silly isn't it" and carry on

Personally, and after a good few years of being involved in ROW law, I'd say that this is the best advice on the thread! 🙂

yeah I'm going to adopt that one (instead of F@#K YOU) 😆

that was a joke BTW I always make a point of being "over polite" to walkers 😉

Yep, the "silly isn't it" line works for me.

Except for the incident referred to above.

My understanding always was similar to the above, that if you're caught you're technically trespassing. If you're then asked to leave and do so then there's nothing else that can be done (you could have wandered there by accident); if you refuse, then it becomes a civil offence.

i would have though the worst that could happen would be injuring someone using the path.

not that it is any more risky than riding on a bridleway, other than perhaps the finacial reperscussions!

If you are riding illegally, i don't imagine that your insurance provider will be paying out in respect of any 3rd party claim that might arise as a result of you riding the path.

So if you happen to wipe out a 42 year old banker (who needs 6 months off work as a result of his injuries), out for a casual weekend stroll in his loafers, you might find yourself on the other end of a pretty expensive action, with no insurance to bail you out, and a less than impressed judge who also doesn't like his country pursuits spoiled by some "maniac" charging down paths he's not supposed to and wiping out innocent bankers.

Those poor, hard-done-by bankers. 😉

aren't bankers on the "hit list"?

Never give your name in these situations.

john smith 😉

so essentially ride where you like hit folk then lie about your details. I have no idea why walkers objetct to us using paths we cannot legally use

fair point - don't leave lone walkers alone to die on footpaths!

john smith

Why are some paths restricted and some not. What is the historic basis for allowing walker in some places but horses in others?

I used to just wherever the path was suitable. NEver encountered any real problems other than the odd angry walker. It's worth bearing in mind that you are in the wrong in the eyes of the law so be polite and thoughtful to other users to avoid unnecessary confrontation.

You can be prosecuted for trespass but no one's business except the landowner or his representative.

[i]Never give your name in these situations. [/i]

[Capt. Mainwaring voice]

Don't tell him your name Pike!

[/Capt Mainwaring voice]

still makes me smile 20 years after I first heard it.

Never give your name in these situations.

BTW not taking any credit for "silly isn't it" I either got it from cheekytrails or off here.

thing is with sfb that he'll always have about 50 Bogtrotters in tow so he's never goign to feel particularly threatened?

Why are some paths restricted and some not

Sheffield has a bylaw that states "bicycles are not allowed on footpaths". this gets round the natural accompaniment argument.

"bicycles are not allowed on footpaths"

Ride on the verge then!

well as Sheff council are a bunch of nobs regarding rights of way, I tend to ignore their rules

I have always found mentioning the [url= http://kindertrespass.com/index.asp?ID=37 ]Kinder mass trespass[/url] of the 1930's helps get the conversation started with a rambler .....

Riding on footpaths is a civil (?) offence.

But only if you get caught.

Que?

Crime is acceptable if nobody catches you?

Interesting concept...

I shall soon (if it ever goes through) be moving to West Lancs. The other side of the M61 from the West Pennine Moors.

As a consequence of the limited foresight of Lancs CC when it classified almost every RoW as a FP, I shall be making use of plenty of FPs crossing fields while out doodling about on my SS cross bike. I'll be sensible about where I go, and what I ride over.

If challenged, I shall use the "it's silly" or "Kinder" arguments.

Crime is acceptable if nobody catches you?

Excellent. Shame that trespass (unless in a very specific way under the CJA 1993) is not a crime....

If you are riding illegally, i don't imagine that your insurance provider will be paying out in respect of any 3rd party claim that might arise as a result of you riding the path.

So if you happen to wipe out a 42 year old banker (who needs 6 months off work as a result of his injuries), out for a casual weekend stroll in his loafers, you might find yourself on the other end of a pretty expensive action, with no insurance to bail you out, and a less than impressed judge who also doesn't like his country pursuits spoiled by some "maniac" charging down paths he's not supposed to and wiping out innocent bankers.

Good thing I don't have insurance in the first place then.

Seriously though, got any examples of this actually happening?

Yes, I'm mounting a one man civil disobedience protest in the spirit of the kinder trespass, against unfair and ridiculous laws written by townies with no understanding of the ways or customs of the countryside - and since the bastard lefties banned Beagling riding my bike is pretty much all I've got, what what! 😀

I know what you mean zulu. My weekends are empty now my regular hare coursing has gone by the wayside.

Going back to the original post, if you live in East Lancs and you weren't prepared to ride footpaths then you wouldn't be able to string a half decent route together. Slinging your bike over styles is par for the course on any ride worth doing in the area. And very rewarding. So there! 😛

Anyway... I do most of my riding at night. And everyone knows that everything defaults to bridleway once the sun goes down 😀

I shall soon (if it ever goes through) be moving to West Lancs

Funnily enough Binners - my car is U/S at the moment, so the other night, I was riding up the road to the farm where I do a little regular fox control, with a rifle slung over my back and a camo jacket on - I was genuinely waiting for the blue lights and 'ecilopter...

PS. The Exposure Maxx Daddy makes a rather reasonable foxing lamp 8)

Almost had me

I shall soon (if it ever goes through) be moving to West Lancs. The other side of the M61 from the West Pennine Moors.

As a consequence of the limited foresight of Lancs CC when it classified almost every RoW as a FP, I shall be making use of plenty of FPs crossing fields while out doodling about [u][b]on my SS cross bike[/b][/u]. I'll be sensible about where I go, and what I ride over.

If challenged, I shall use the "it's silly" or "Kinder" arguments.

I believe it is our moral duty to ride footpaths!

Good thing I don't have insurance in the first place then.

Seriously though, got any examples of this actually happening?

I'll have a look, but I doubt many of these cases are reported.

However, it's certainly possible for a pedestrian to bring a PI claim against a cyclist who mows them down.

From my ETA policy wording on 3rd party liability:

Within Britain we will become legally liable to pay for accidental bodily injury, death, or accidental damage to any person or accidental damage to third party property, which arise from your use of any pedal cycle providing you are legally resident in Britain. The total amount payable includes reasonable defence costs and expenses incurred by you with our written consent in connection with any liability insured under this certificate of insurance. The maximum amount we will pay under this section is £1 million.

However, note the general exclusion:

This certificate of insurance does not provide cover for any personal accident or personal liability of whatsoever nature, directly or indirectly cause, contributed to by or happening through or in the consequence of:

your engaging in any illegal or criminal act;

So, if your presence on the pavement/footpath was not legal, then ETA would be able to wriggle out of covering any damages awarded to the pedestrian by the court.

If you were on a bridleway and not cycling recklessly etc, then ETA would cover you for up to £1m for any damages awarded as a result of you knocking someone down.

Give over trying to sound posh you are off to live in skem arent you ...shudders

😀

So, if your presence on the pavement/footpath was not legal, then ETA would be able to wriggle out of covering any damages awarded to the pedestrian by the court.

Ah, the old [i]volenti non fit injuria[/i]..!

So, do you reckon that my car insurance would refuse to pay out if I crashed doing 35 in 30 zone?