[Closed] Flat pedals - how long does it take to get used to them after years of SPDs?

When I made the transition it was just a matter of time. Took me about three months to stop launching myself over the bars on every jump and about six months before I was fully comfortable with them.

What shoes are you using?

Quite a while. A year or more before I was happy just jumping on a bike with flats and being able to ride it flat out without being nervous.

The biggest thing that made a difference was using them for a fortnight solid when on holiday. At that point it becomes completely instinctive.

I've swapped. I cannot say I find it any extra effort riding up hill, in fact I'm finding the opposite because it forces you to improve your pedalling technique.

The things I'm finding most difficult is pedalling in the rough, so I'm having to learn to carry my speed more. Flat out sprints are also harder.

Clips don't give you any more power with normal riding imho. Where they do give you something is at full power, when you're felt are flying off the pedals.

Anyway, for the time being I've become a flat convert, wishing I'd not switched to clip 15years ago.

I found the bike dropped away less with flat pedals if I rode with the mid foot rather than on the balls of the feet. It's all to do with rotation from the ankles.

One thing that I was told when i switched to flats from SPD's was that where you clip in with SPDs is with the front ball of the foot, so when you switch to flats you instinctively do the same, where as with flats your feet should sit a lot more central on the pedal, so the middle of your foot sits over the pedal axle.

V8s with 661 Freeride shoes. Supposed to be the 'holy grail' I gather.
And tbh I've not been riding that often so my 'several months' is about 2 rides in Lee Quarry, one in the Peaks and a couple round Surrey Hills...
I did play around with foot position on the uphills yesterday and moving the foot forward did make a difference... could feel quads working, not just calves

Supposed to be the 'holy grail' I gather.

i'd say you gather wrong...

Took me about a year but I moved to flats after braking my arm so confidence was also a problem.Take a quick look at way your bike is setup, it helped me to have less rebound and less dampening front and back. Remember you can’t just pull your foot up to lift the bike anymore. You need to think and plan you style a bit more at first. The best feeling is when you go biking with a large group and as you finish they say “oh you riding flats”.

I remember the days we were asking how long to convert to clips!
Funny old world as I attempt to convert to flats, nearly a year and not there yet, as teen James converts to clips for DH, two days later and he was cracking faster times than on flats. He seems to switch effortlessly. The other strange thing for me is the more gnarly it is the more I want to be clipped in - I can't help the feeling that flats are for beach cruising!

How long it takes you depends on how much bad technique you've adopted while riding clipped in 😉

I switch between the two depending what kind of mood I'm in.

Probably means that I'm not very good at either.

- bike dropping away on step downs - nearly hit a tree yesterday when that happened!

I had the same thing till I was Jedi'd - your foot position is different on flats, further forward (so pedal's nearer the instep) than on clips. Worked for me once it was sorted and now I don't kick the bike away when I jump.

And keep those heels down.

Depends how much you think/worry about it while riding. Took a couple of rides for me to feel fine with them. Pushing up and riding down Innerleithen downhill trails quickly made me get used to them. Wouldn't go back to SPDs now, I just prefer riding with flats. Some will get them, some won't. Just ride which your happier with really.

Deffinately +1 jam bo's comment.

If you gathered that information about your 'holy grail' of footwear & pedal combo it's going to take you a lot longer to improve your technique !

Brooes are you surrey hills based then? I am sure I met you on the Peaks Pootle about a year ago; the one where we met at Roman Lakes.

Anyway, I personally think that there are much better pedal/shoe combinations to be had, but that's personal preference.

The new DMR pedals look excellent, but the original V8s were never particularly grippy and the 661 shoes don't have 'sticky rubber' on them, so again, they aren't the most adhesive shoe.

You should try either a 5.10 with the stealth rubber (same compound as they use on their rock climbing shoe) or the Shimano AM40/41 with the Vibram sole. This isn't quite a sticky as the 5.10 but it's a lot thinner so what you lose in adhesion you gain in sensitivity.

Definately +1 jambo's comment.

If you gathered that information about your 'holy grail' of footwear & pedal combo it's going to take you a lot longer to improve your technique !

It's 5:10's I have, my mistake. What would the STW collective suggest as grippier pedals then? I only got the V8s to try flats out so happy to make a better investment and spend a bit more...

Greg, yes I was on the Peaks Pootle last year. Job went belly up and couldn't find any work so moved back down to London Village (where I've been since early 90's anyway. Besides, I was missing dusty Surrey Hills trails 😉

why bother, if you were happy with spd's just switch back. 😀

Mr MC took about 18 months to get used to flats after 17 years of SpdS's a snapped tibial plateau and torn ankle ligaments (2 seperate incidents of which the injuries were as a result of unclipping). One thing I know he does say is weird is you need to drop your seat a little bit compared to Spd's as you need to be able to push your feet through the pedals more to keep them on bumpy downhills!!?? I think.... maybe I'll just get him to post instead rather than talk gobbledygook!

I went from SPDs to flats after getting pissed off constantly trying to clip in while sessioning jumps. Went you, bought the straitline pedals and 5:10s, and it took me about five minutes to feel comfortable. Ended up ditching them on the other bikes not soon after.

What would the STW collective suggest as grippier pedals then

Pretty much anything other than the old DMR V8s 😛 You're spoilt for choice really. If you're hard on pedals (clanking them over rocks etc) then I would avoid any design that has a thin axle as the bearings will get crucified. Also avoid designs were the pins can't be removed easily if they get bent.

The new DMR Vaults looks excellent and are really light. I love my Burgtecs but they silly money if you can't justify the price by them being nigh on indestructible.

dont worry about footwear or pedals just ride.

the more you ride the more you will get used to it.

bend your knees!

i`ve been riding clips for hte last year and i have all sorts of problems when i swap back o flats untill i forget what pedals i have. normally its down to poor technique you get because its easy to be lazy riding clips.

i've to crack confidence in clips in the wet yet. i keep thinking i`m going to get a front wheel washout.

battered nike 6.o`s with holes in the soles and gusset slim jims here. sticky soles and mega grippy pedals are not necessary.

I'm finding it easier than I thought. I switched about 3 months ago but I do ride off road to work and back everyday so I'm spending plenty of time with them. Although the terrain is very tame the bike is rigid so the ride is a lot rougher than it would be with suspension. I'm just using very cheap pedals that came with my Boardman and some old Specialized Posi Trac shoes a friend gave me. Overall I'm really happy to have switched as I've never been a confident or skilled rider and the knowledge that I can put a foot down without thinking about it means I'm enjoying the riding more. I've also found the ability to move my foot around on the pedal a great help when riding at slower speeds and manoeuvring the bike.
In the spring I'll by some better pedals and shoes for my cross country hardtail and see how I get on for longer rides. If I don't get on with them then I'll go back to spd's on that bike and put the better pedals on the rigid bike as I'll be sticking with flats on that bike.

(aka Mr MC).

forced change as MC says (crashed in morzine and the top of my tibia gave way before the spd did 😯 ). Took about 18 months to fully gel but now I wouldnt go back. I prefer softer soled shoes so I can feel the pedal (so rules out the ubiqitious and highly (or over) rated five ten) and never suffer fatigue or foot pain as a result (alternate between waffle soled Vans and shimano AM40s).

I found I needed to drop the saddle a bit, as you want to ride heels-down with knees slightly bent to load the pedals, and with your foot further forward on the pedal (so ball of foot ahead of axle, instep over axle) compared to SPDs. Before I got a grip of this I had routine foot-leaving-pedal incidents on drop offs etc (never resulting in a crash just ooh f--- moments) but I very very rarely lose a foot now. My riding is smoother now as both my arms and legs let the bike float beneath me, whereas on SPDs I probably "stood" on the pedals more with stiffer legs.

Oddly I now feel disconnected on SPDs due to the float. And I get a lot of use out of a dropper post (got a GD with the 1" intermediate drop which I ride in whenever the trails is techy or rolling, just use fully up for fireroads and climbs).

edit; didnt rate DMR v8/V12s. I have kona wah wahs (aka superstar nano aka nukeproof proton/neutron aka HT Industries and a few other rebrands) on one bike but my fave is the easton flatboy. Should be called the fatboy as its about twice the weight of some pedals, not sure if it is pin position, concavity of body or what but they are noticeably better than other flats I've used.

i had my third ride on flats yesterday,have ridden about 15 hrs now on flats in 3 weeks, i put some podiums on my heckler and nukeproof protons on my Evil sov, absolutley love riding with them, I also feel more connected with the bike which i also find rather odd, one of my mates is giving me help as he has always ridden flats, lost the pedal only once yesterday on a short log drop due to being on the balls of my feet again, i know what i have done straight away and correct immediately, using sam hills 5.10 which are incredibly warm and comfy too,

best thing i have ever done riding wise, when i put the ped's on a few weeks back i spent a few mins a day practicing bunny hops etc, and me and my mate always spend the ride home form the woods practicing our wheelies, oh i'm 43 and have been riding SPD's for 12 yrs 😀

I recently tried flats for the second time. The first time I just used running trainers and hated it. This time I bought some second hand AM41 off here and some cheap V8s.

Loved it - felt much more fun and engaging on the downs but harder on the ups and not as comfortable. Took about 2 hours to get used to but don't feel as confident on jumps etc. I think I'll continue to use both.

(aka Mr MC).

forced change as MC says (crashed in morzine and the top of my tibia gave way before the spd did ).

took me one very wet/muddy DH race run to comfortably go back to Flats full time after a few years racing XC (then DH) clipped in. (I still do clip in on my roadbike). But I learned pretty much every riding skill I posess to this day back before SPDs were invented.
Did none of you ever have any fun jumping etc. on your bikes as kids?

GW, Mr MC isn't saying that flat pedals will prevent injury, but it will further prevent the types of injuries he severed which resulted in surgery, both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out. he's already had other injuries from flat such as shinned shins but body armour solves that problem.

Supposed to be the 'holy grail' I gather.

i'd say you gather wrong...

+1

Being an old f*rt, I've gone through loads of pedal/shoe combos over the years (both SPD/ATAC and flats). Used to ride SPD/ATACs all the time, then following knee surgery, went to flats, and SPDs for longer rides - now, I'm just too lazy to swap pedals all the time, so I ride flats 100%.

Personally, I find the V8's in particular are too free-spinning, and they're quite a tall pedal. Something like Kona wah wah/Superstar Nano's or similar are (IMO) a far better flatties - to me, they feel more secure and, possibly because the sole of the shoe is closer to the axle, there seems to be less pedal rotation when in the air, and they're easier to do the 'scoop' technique with. If your foot does bounce off nano/wahwah-type momentarily, the pedal won't tend to spin out on you like V8/12's.

I guess it's a bit difficult knowing whether to bother spending more on new pedals and shoes, but IMO V8/12's aren't the easiest flat pedal to learn flattie technique on.

As far as technique goes, a lot of what people have already said re: foot position and dropping heels is good.

Again, only my opinion, but I think if you can perservere and master the bunnyhop on flats, you won't go far wrong. The scooping your foot technique is demo'd by Doddy

both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out.

that (above) is to date my worst injury to date but the crash was caused by poor judgement and bad luck, I couldn't possibly blame any bike part. thinking I could lay the bike over and land in a slide to slow me after launching a berm wasn't too outlandish an idea, stopping dead at 90deg instead of sliding was simply unlucky.

Lurking (till now) with interest - left wrist still recovering from being plated and screwed a fortnight ago, mainly because of not unclipping when falling off. AM41's already ordered for when I'm back riding again, I've got some old V8's that I'll put back on the bike...I used to be happy with them years ago.

Nice bunnyhop video - that's the real reason I've posted, to bookmark this thread.

EDIT: GW - to stick my nose in, IME being clipped didn't cause my crash, but it meant I didn't unclip in time to not take all my substantial weight on my left hand/wrist. I'm pretty sure if i hadn't been clipped in I'd have got a foot down and at least 'spread the load'.

Each to their own here but I didnt get flats at all.. It was my most miserable 4 months of riding, enough to almost pack it it. Mashed shins, frustration, walking down stuff I would otherwise have ridden and basically being completely crap.

If people are saying a year to crack it, well... sorry but its not for me. Back on clips and enjoying my riding again. Can do all the stuff flats riders can do, I dont care about the lazy tech tag, I'm back to enjoying my riding.

Skills teaching, I agree, flats probably the way to go.

Quite a few dh pro riders are clipped on platform pedals, are they tech slackers too?

I have a set of DMR V12's 4 rides old for sale.. red in colour if your interested.. will post out for xmas...

I can honestly say I've never had any major problems switching between pedal types. I spent the first 20-odd yearsof my life on 'flats' that were just 'pedals' becasue that's all there was. Then, with MTBs I started on clips mand straps and learned to bunnyhop, then I went to SPD, then back to flats. I had a short time working out how to bunnyhop on flats, but once I worked it out I can hop higer on flats than SPDs. These days I use both about 50/50. I tour and commute on flats, but my 456 has SPDs 99% of the time, as does my SS. The Pitch wears V8s.

rickmeister - some can take 12-18 months some don't. Took me a few rides and found I just liked.

Quite a few dh pro riders are clipped on platform pedals, are they tech slackers too?

Nope, that's just bollocks. Some people like being clipped in, some like flats. Pretty simple. I wouldn't say either was better than the other, just what your prefer to ride with. I don't mean you, but sometimes feel some riders look at their riding style/bikes/parts waaaaay to seriously on here and completely over analysis it all!

you dont scoop! 🙂

I spent the first 20-odd yearsof my life on 'flats' that were just 'pedals' becasue that's all there was.

I somehow felt very unworthy sat there on my 140 full sus though 😆

"you dont scoop! "

Yeah, I ride flats & I don't think I'd be 'scooping' if I was going off a drop. Not sure if I'm doing the right thing, but I just kind of stay neutral when I catch a little bit of air (tho I think I'm pushing the soles of my feet kind of back and down onto the pedals to keep 'em on the pins - er...that's what I think I'm doing anyway! (by accident rather than design) 🙂

Any tips on staying stuck on flatties when airborne would be much appreciated though 😀

pushing back??? you mean drop heals and push forwards with your soles ? 🙂

IMHO Time taken to get used to it is an individual thing. I agree with the loosing the bike in the air more, had to drop the seat a tad and probably changed my riding style (have a reverb now which also allows you to get the seat higher for pedaly bits) . I didn't think the performance hit was noticeable but I do feel that I can't drop my heals and stretch my legs as far when I'm on longer rides.

pushing back??? you mean drop heals and push forwards with your soles ?

Seriously though, that does make sense. I'm quite a good 'heel dropper' normally (or so I've been told), so maybe that's what I'm doing...hmmm. Never really had a feet bouncing off pedals problem with flats, & I don't normally wear 5.10's, so guess it must be down to keeping heels down. Now, this is seriously temptin' fate, but the only gashed shins I've had in the last two or three years regular flattie riding have been when I've been lounging around on the bike at tea stops! (I'm guaranteed to shim myself on the next ride now eh?! 😀 )

Did none of you ever have any fun jumping etc. on your bikes as kids?

Took a while as I had a grifter that weighed a tonne and was several sizes too big for me! Shall not be making that mistake with blobby jr 🙂

Edit: and for the OP, took a few rides and quite a bit of fiddling with other contact points before it all gelled with flats. Still run SPD's for racing, but use flats for everything else on mtb. Brilliant this time of year for some foot out cornering, muddier the better 🙂

GW - to stick my nose in, IME being clipped didn't cause my crash, but it meant I didn't unclip in time to not take all my substantial weight on my left hand/wrist. I'm pretty sure if i hadn't been clipped in I'd have got a foot down and at least 'spread the load'.

Point is tho, clips aren't making anyone crash, poor riding is!

rick - I could get you riding flats better in an hour, if you want to try again "properly" just ask next time we're riding together.

both of his serious crashes were as a result of not clipping out.

Care to explain how crashes are caused by not clipping out?

GW you are so predictably contrary 🙄 . MC has done a pretty good job of explaining more than once how I was injured and how SPDs contributed to those injuries. It's clear from her other posts she means caused the injuries not caused the crashes. I have had numerous crashes in 18 years of riding. In 2 of those crashes, my SPDs not unclipping lead to injuries (torn ankle ligaments in one, a broken tibia in another). Both these injuries meant time off work sick, setting back my career, on top of missing a full season's riding on each occasion and needing surgery for the latter.

To me the dangers of not unclipping are, though slight (I'd ridden with spds for years prior with no real issues) a real, quantifiable risk, and not riding them is for me a sensible decision based on personal experience. Sharing that experience explained to the OP why I took up flats, and why I persevered when it took a long time to bond with them. I have broken an elbow and torn a tricep this summer (in a freakish low-speed off) so I don't think flat pedals magically prevent accidents or injury, but as I'm getting older and my employer is starting to notice I have taken steps to minimise the risks (flat pedals, elbow and knee pads, not always riding to my limits).

And +1 for Jedi on bunny hopping, I tried the scoop technique when I first got flats and it is frankly ridiculous.

Took me ages to get comfortable on flats... But I used to be very rigid on the bike, totally reliant on the pedals to stay attached- very bad form regardless of what sort of pedals you use but you can get away with it when clipped in.

If you've got good form, you should be able to adapt quite quickly to flats but I reckon an awful lot of riders are much like I was, and just don't know they've got an issue. (getting rid of it will pay off even if you go back to SPDs though IMO)

In 2 of those crashes, my SPDs not unclipping lead to injuries

if your shorts snag on your shifter causing you to crash it's not the shifter or the shorts fault it's 100% user error!!

To me the dangers of not unclipping are, though slight (I'd ridden with spds for years prior with no real issues) a real, quantifiable risk, and not riding them is for me a sensible decision based on personal experience.

But then, I bet there's people on here who'd say "I crashed because my foot slipped off my flats, which I'd been clipped in" 😉

I fairly regularly switch between flats and SPDs, depending on what bike I'm using. I've had a few offs with SPDs where my foot hasn't come out (generally because I try my hardest to stay attached for as long as possible as I've ridden out of some rather frighteningly out of control situations). Almost all of my crashes on bikes have been due to being on flats and slipping off them, but I like the ability to bail early on technical stuff. Steep steppy hill sections where you're bordering on an endo all the way down - flats let you step backwards off the pedals instantly, SPDs require a split second more reaction time and the action of twist and pull seems to take a couple of extra nanoseconds that makes me not attempt some of the trickier stuff.

I've recenly injured my back though, which means that it's really hard to achieve that body stiffness in an arched position to maintain a good rearward force on the pedals while bunnyhopping for example, and that's left me injuring myself repeatedly and wishing for my SPDs back again where I could lazily just lift my feet.

if your shorts snag on your shifter causing you to crash it's not the shifter or the shorts fault it's 100% user error!!

lol, not really. how is it user error if your shorts snag? i wouldnt have made them get tangled up in the shifter...

GW you are just being an obnoxious **** now!!! Why would you want an excuse for the crash? Simple if Mr MC's foot has unclipped when he crashed in Morzine his knee wouldn't have twisted and hence causing that injury. Yes he may well have had just as serious injuries in other ways but simple fact of the matter is, not clipping out caused those serious injuries. Not stop being an idiot and get back to the thread of giving advice on riding with flats!!

I've never not unclipped when I've stacked - it just happens doesn't it, unless the crash was one of the comedy 'new to spd's sideways topples.' How did MC stay clipped in if he crashed at any sort of speed?

Crashing and landing depends on a whole selection of things! If you are saying "it just happens" goes to show you don't know how it happens and you don't know how to get out of it. High speed crash, no time to realise you are going to crash, no time to respond to crash (otherwise you potentially may be able to prevent stack) so it happens. The knee accident happened on the 10% on Le Pleney, need I say more, crash at high speed on a steep down hill with a loose surface. If you are in control it's not a crash and before you mention it yup his shoes were set to the loosest setting.

Surprised he didn't clip out automatically then - as I say, I've always clipped out when I've stacked it, hope I always will!

float - Member

lol, not really. how is it user error if your shorts snag? i wouldnt have made them get tangled up in the shifter...

How did they get somewhere they could snag? User error.

Though o'course it's a bit of both really- you need both the user error and the snaggy shorts.

Shortbread for 17 years of riding so had Mr MC!! Not on those two occasions, very quick loss of control meant no time to unclip, after 2nd occasion of 3 months off work he decided he give flats a go!

GW do you deliberately mis read for the sake of arguments? I am not blaming equipment for causing a crash. I didn't have any real say in what my foot did as me and my bike cartwheeled down the pleney, but the fact my spd didn't "just" unclip like they somehow are expected to do snapped the end off my tibia.

We all know you are a riding god who doesn't need pads, gloves, dropper posts etc ad nauseum but some of us aren't and do, and if you ever decide to make a positive post in a thread we might benefit from your experience. You may be a talented rider and a really nice bloke, but if so your posting history does you a disservice. I've recommended some pedals and explained how I learnt to ride them. Have you?

Edit for shortbread, as MC said up until these crashes I had always clipped out without thinking or effort, I am not down on SPDs and happily rode them in the PdeS for 8 consecutive years before these 2 accidents, but it would have been third time stupidly unlucky if I'd persisted with them!

After saying " never again" to Crank bros SPD type pedals after a broken tib / fib and surgery and a 10 month recovery peridod it took me about 5 mins to get used to flats.

When riding my DH bike I find that I need to work my legs quite hard to follow the terrain, also slow the rebound down a bit to help.

How did they get somewhere they could snag? User error.

well, for me it would be doing a tuck no-hander of course 😉

Took me a very long time to make the change - maybe a year before I stopped thinking about it....probably because I learnt to ride with clipless and had totally ingrained the 'pull with feet' habit.

One of the best riding decisions I ever made though. Improved my riding tenfold.

I switch between flats and spds. To be honest on natural terrain I feel safer on SPDs, though I do prefer flats for jumping.

For technique I would say put in some work practicing pumping and especially bunny hops so you can get used to dragging the bike over stuff. Also I did initially prefer my saddle slightly lower to force me to put more weight through my legs on technical climbs

Took me a few months to be totally happy after many years of SPDs but I wont go back now!

loads more control as other posts have said, I do struggle if the wheel suddenly slips on a root or loose rock when climbing occasionally, but thats probably my technique.

I did stack on my first small jump as I left the bike but that was fixed by getting my weight back more!

GW you are just being an obnoxious **** now!!!

Why would you want an excuse for the crash?

Simple if Mr MC[s]'s foot has[/s][b] had[/b] unclipped when he crashed in Morzine his knee wouldn't have twisted [s]and hence causing that injury.[/s] Yes he may well have had just as serious injuries in other ways but simple fact of the matter is, [b]him[/b] not clipping out caused those serious injuries.

[u]Not stop[/u] being an idiot and get back to the thread of giving advice on riding with flats!!

I didn't have any real say in what my foot did as me and my bike cartwheeled down the pleney

Yes you did!

that is my point!

I've recommended some pedals and explained how I learnt to ride them. Have you?

I ride a mix, but probably 75% of the tim or more on spds. I'm generally happy with V8's and Vans for non spd duties, but I'm well aware that they're not the ultimate crip combo. (You can't beat a bit of old school though) The current trend is for very slim, wide, concave pedals with lots of pins, and sticky shoes. maybe try a couple of sets of used pedals from clasified till you find something you like?

Regarding 'crashing technique' - http://www.bikejames.com/strength/flats-vs-clipless-pedals/#comment-4292 - the response to post #13 is interesting...

"...I got dragged into this whole debate when Aaron Gwin knocked his font teeth out with that exact scenario and he blamed it 100% on the clipless pedals, mentioned how flats make you a better rider and then all hell broke loose with this debate. When one of the best riders in the world can knock his teeth out because of clipless pedals then anyone can."

back when Gwin knocked his teeth out, in terms of timescale he would have pretty much still been a beginner to riding mtb nevermind riding mtb on spds, although one of the fastest DH racers in the world at the time, less than 2 years previously he hadn't even ridden a DH bike.

BTW plenty BMXers have smashed their teeth out using flats too.

If you're happy riding clipped in then stick with it, why swap? Just because it's the current trend? Similarly if you're happy on flats then don't worry that you're missing out with spds

I recently went over to clips and actually really like them even though i was happy on flats.

I then borrowed a bike yesterday with flats on it and i just couldnt get along with it, think i will stay clipped for a while now!