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I've been alternating between the same two MTBs for the last few years - they're super similar in geometry at sag despite one being a hardtail and the other an e-FS. I always ride flats, have never used clip(less)s. Anyway, I recently noticed that I tend to place my feet further forwards on the hardtail, pedal axle pretty much right in the middle of each foot, whilst on the FS my feet are further back with the axles a bit behind the balls of me feet.
The bikes are almost exactly the same wheelbase, but the hardtail has about 20mm more reach / front-centre and 20mm less chainstay length. And I'm putting my feet about 20mm further forwards on the hardtail vs the BB, so I'm in the same place vs the wheels. Coincidence?!
I think your midfiot position is instinctively to stop your feet getting bounced off. Less of an issue on the full suss, but midfiot would help there as well
I did wonder that but I also wondered if I'm naturally moving my feet back under me to compensate for the slacker seat angle and shorter reach of the (less ideal) geometry of ye olde Levo? (This is the sort of thing you start thinking about as you're stuck in admin deadline hell at your own business when you wanted to go and play bass at a jam night instead...)
It's both things IME (geo compensation & hardtailness)
There’s a lot going on here! And made even more confusing by your two bikes being about as different as can be pedalling wise.
even if you had identical geo,
the hardtail which I believe is single speed is going to lend itself to low cadence high torque pedal strokes. This favours a more mid foot position as that high force puts less stress on the ankle.
the e-bike full suspension you’ll (at least when working the hardest) be at a higher cadence to best work the motor, avoid bobbing, and letting the motor smooth out your power stroke. for a higher cadence you’re better off using the longer arm that you get with a more ball of the foot stance.
and all that is just to pedal in a straight line
if you’re really bored, try playing with a bathroom scale to see how it affects weight distribution…
Coincidence?!
I don't think so, because CoM location vs the wheels is the most important part of bike-rider balance and handling, you may be shifting fwd to adjust for the hardtails more exagerated FC:RC balance. You could also pull your upper body further fwd to shift your weight centre. But that or foot position has little effect vs where your BB is between the wheels, the vast majority of your weight acts or has its effect through the BB. Even when we think we're loading the bars - at that point would you rather put you finger tip under the weight you're pressing into the bar or the pedal/s?
if you’re really bored, try playing with a bathroom scale to see how it affects weight distribution…
Recommended. If you have an axle-mount turbo trainer it's easy, just look at the read out from a scale under the front wheel. I did that with a few drop bar bikes a while ago and was suprised how little the hoods or drops grip position changed weighting*. So the reason I corner better from the drops may not be about weight on the tyre or it may not take much to gain the extra grip, or it's not about grip as much as about feel / feedback and being closer to the contact patch. I suspect the latter but I don't know.
With off-road bikes it may explain why the idea that you 'ride the fork' or weight the front wheel never felt too good to me. It's ok but by the point I'm really weighting the front wheel by leaning my weight well fwd from the BB (i.e. a bike with very long FC / short RC) I'm more committed and vulnerable when the wheel slips or hits a hole - a bike with a longer RC or shorter FC can have the front wheel weight needed while I remain in a more reactive neutral position over or just closer to the BB (there's other pros and cons of different FC:RC balances oc, not to zoom in on just one of them).
All in all, I've ridden more bikes that would benefit from a longer chainstay than shorter. And I've been positively surprised by how well 'long' chainstay bikes ride all-round, on a few occasions. Perhaps it's something more apparent to riders on L or XL bikes (I tend to ride L, on the verge of XL)
*Also found a few quite different rigid bikes (road, gravel and MTB) that all feel really well balanced in the corners all had very similar FC:RC ratios while the fit varied quite a lot - with road bikes the similarity needs to be closer as there's no scope for tyre slip, but anything that works off-road can be a bit more 'ballpark' ratio and have good cornering balance. MTBs with suspension are different, I think the suspension means we can take quite a different position on the bike, though that point about being vulnerable when your CoM is well fwd of the BB stands imo)
Some good thoughts! I rode the hardtail to and from work yesterday, the ebike today, and am hoping to get out for a proper ride on the hardtail tonight. Am trying to be observant, feedback to come - took some photos of my foot position today!
Looking at the wear on 4 different pairs of five tens used on different length/reach/geometry bikes it seems the rear of the pedal sits in my arch and the front on the ball of my foot. I'm not sure if I move slightly bike dependent though