[Closed] Fit but not fast. How to speed up?

Train harder. Do more short hard rides. Do more longer rides. Intervals. Get a road bike. Ride more. Etc.

Sounds like a question of working on efficiency:
i) Cadence.
ii) Choice of gear (related to cadence) and shifting without loosing momentum.
iii) Less braking(?)

[url= http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/cycling-training.html ]google some training programmes[/url]
[url= http://www.netfit.co.uk/cycling-weight.htm ]weights[/url]

Train less but train smarter reckons a friend of mine who is/was a junior Commonwealth games competitor in Australia.
As shortbread says, get a road bike, join a club, shed some weight

That time of year when the road mags start to include winter training plans.

From a quick read at the post K100 threads stretching would be a good starting point, yoga or pilattes

To run (or bike) faster, you have to run (or bike) faster. (What a surprise!)
What I mean is more shorter, faster training. I don't agree with long, steady rides or runs. Works for me but that doesn't mean it'll work for you.

uhuh, I'd say get a roadbike and find some bigger hills to ride up.
Ride more. Obviously I can tell you this because I beat you by a whole 15 minutes. 😉

I thought there was no easy answer.

I have used a HRM in the past a bit for running and find I average about 145bpm. I don't get anywhere near this on the bike except perhaps on some really steep hills. Maybe I just need to press on more but then I'm worried about blowing up.

I'm 6ft 3" and 12st btw so probably not too much weight to lose 🙂

It's those heavy hub gears slowing you down. And riding with me for part of it. 😉

You probably need to get more specific in your training. Less running and more biking. Intervals for speed. Obviously I can't tell you this because you beat me by a whole 1 hour 7 minutes.

intervals!

iii) Less braking(?)

Ride faster, base training is good for endurance but no much cop for getting quick. Issue 59 Matt Hart (i think) wrote some stuff about this.

intervals!

Ride faster, base training is good for endurance but no much cop for getting quick

I disagree.. you can't get really really quick unless you have a good solid base to build on (so i keep hearing). Pyramid innit!

Yep, the prolonged aerobic bit is fine, fast is the problem.

Agree about the braking too - generally I was catching people on the hills apart from the odd FS (or more talented rider!).

miketually - Member

It's those heavy hub gears slowing you down

at kielder I'd say 80% of my braking was to prevent running into the back of other riders.

pass them instead?

Intervals and road bike IMO.

..ok, so ride more and harder is the way to go - intervals are great for building speed on top of endurance (which for me, is built from long rides) but [b]don't[/b] overlook the need for good quality nutrition and the need for good quality rest. The principle is that you actually develop the fitness as your body recovers and repairs itself from the hard effort.

There are loads of training programmes out there, but the best training programme is the one that is right for you, so I would suggest that you maybe try and find some coaching, this way you can get an approach that is tailored to fit you, and can define and set goals for your training, one of the most important parts of a programme imo.

I have the same problem Paul - I can ride/run forever but can't be bothered to go fast. I was hoping some magic beans might help 😉

Started doing some faster stuff/intervals running, but mostly just enjoy 'going for a ride' on the bike.

I suspect lacking that killer competitive gene doesn't help. Plus, dare I say it, being 41 makes me wonder how much improvement I can expect!

Think I might try getting used to going quicker having recovered from the k100 and see what happens.

Paul I think the idea is to increase your aerobic speed (and aerobic threshold?)
Trickydisco yep base is [b]incredibly[/b] important but seemingly all the experts say train slow race slow

pass them instead?

How on earth do people go fast enough to get under 10hrs though?

Genetics. They started out with a bigger aerobic engine than you.

If you are well trained now then I doubt more training will close a 17% time gap but please prove me wrong.

Its a combination of all of the above. If you dont have a balanced training program you wont get the benefits you want..Too much speed-work will leave you lacking in stamina etc..I went & spoke to TORQ earlier this year & learnt an awful lot about endurance training, maybe give them a call?

Sounds to me (& I have no qualifications whatsover to support this) like you need to increase the pace at which you can ride long distances ie increase the threshold at which you go from aerobic to anerobic. People would suggest that you do this by riding resonably long intervals just below threshold.

Feel free to shoot me down, I know bugger all... BUT...

If your HR is much higher when you are running this implies that you are stressing your CV system a a lot more when running, yes?

So I was wondering, what cadence do you cycle at?

Since if you cycle at a faster cadence, this will stress your CV system more and legs less (vice versa for a low cadence).

So maybe you could try some higher cadence training and see if it makes a difference? Otherwise (and if you are already pedalling like Lance at 120RPM), 'wot they said'!

You could just get a good book. I found Joe Friel's bible useful.
Its not a one size fits all programme, its more like a system by which you can work out you own training.

Fartlek

This is strange to read as naturally im the opposite. I have genetically quite a good VO2 max (which is what you want to improve speed) but if i havent been riding for a while i lose all endurance.

Simple answer is to do interval training, avoid long and steep hills if you are trying to improve speed, cut the distances right down except for 1 long ride per week. If you do ride hills you want to be able to attack them out of the saddle rather than spin up them. Work in sprints to your riding.

The best thing I ever did to improve my speed was to get a road bike and ride with a club, the pace was alot higher than I was used to (previously i would just look for mammoth hills) and develops the power in your legs required to push the bigger gears.

Hope that helps

I'd get another set of wheels and fit road tyres to them, then join the roadies, they hate it when someone keeps up with them on a full sus with road tyres... trust me (oh, and beat them to the top of the long road climb, that's even better) 😮

Some good advice here - keep it coming.

I must look at the cadence thing. Generally I know about the higher cadence thing and so try to do that but in reality I may be going much slower than I realise. As mentioned above I did the K100 on an Alfine and I've come from a singlespeed a couple of years ago so do tend to just push the higher gears at a lower cadence. I do also ride a CX bike on the road and with a full complement of gears try to keep a steady cadence but perhaps it's not as high as I think.

I've also got a little chest, not sayin' I've got nowt but y'know.

Travis - Member
I'd get another set of wheels and fit road tyres to them, then join the roadies, they hate it when someone keeps up with them on a full sus with road tyres... trust me

More likely a bit anxious about someone who may not appear to have group riding skills.

Most roadies are less insecure about their abilities than you think. But yes, you are still a LEG END!

Watching this with interest, but I think I'll just try actually riding my bike a bit more first. I need to get into the mindset that it is worth going out for a quick 2 hour local blast, rather than waiting until I can get out for 8 or 9 hours.

One ride a month might not be enough preparation for riding 100 miles off-road in one go.

as the group says really, short hard fast rides (like short bursts with recovery so that you ride at a faster than normal pace), I try and do mine on my commute as having a little baby at home, my weekends are not mine any more (not so much anyway)

Cynic - since beating them at their hill climb, they have now stipulated a 700c only wheel size, so now I join them on CX with nobbly tyres and still wind them up 😀

Travis, I like your style 8)

[i]quick 2 hour local blast[/i]
Good lord, I do those sums on a 15 min ride. 2 hours is luxury 🙂

I'm by no means fast, but regular(ish) commutes has certainly speeded me up over the last few years.

14 miles each way, about 50% off road, some nice climbs and descents. I try to ride flat out and attack the route, and other cycle commuters (for the "in town" bit) as if it were a race. Always trying to better my previous best time.

not so easy on singletrack and we were gently reminded at briefing "on singletrack if someone is infront of you they are faster than you so don't complain" so I only passed when invited to or when it was very safe to do so. I wasn't gonna knock an hour off my time by overtaking people on the downs, it just felt bad scrubbing off "free" momentum.

Is it a race or an big organised ride? Coz if it's a race uninvited overtaking should be part of it.
I'm the opposite to you, Ie. quite fast with poor fitness, I'd come last in any XC event if I didn't overtake on singletrack descents. most of my riding consists of riding as fast as possible on any fun singletrack and either walking and pushing climbs. why not try some DHing? should help with both speed and technical ability.

Before my current knee injury I've always been pretty fit, but like yourself a bit on the slower side, all day rides between 8 -9 mph. No matter how much training I did, intervals, short fast rides this average never changed. In fact before my injury I was riding the same average speed at 40 years old than I was at 20. I Gym and swim and cyle commute to work in addition to my weekend epics

So having read [url= http://www.twinklydave.com/?p=731 ]twinklydave's report[/url] it sounds like some answers are to eat plenty (which I did), not stop and work with people on the 'road' sections.

Easy eh?!

If you want a specific outcome you need to try and make your training more specific to achieve the goal. There is a massive difference between unstructured and structured training, the key is to have a structure and then make all the elements as enjoyable/interesting as possible. Sessions you hate and "have" to do aren't good for motivation.

You could easily go under 10 hours next year, buy the Joe Friel book, work out a rough programme, try it, get plenty of miles in early season, plan around a few events, see what works for you.

All of this ride slower/ride faster/intervals can be very confusing so this is the way I look at it. Both are right at diffent times of the year.

Endurance is built by base training (long/slower rides) and it takes a long time to build endurance but it also falls away slower. Therefore base is best built starting early and this is why it is advocated over the winter and should carry on all year in varying degrees.

Strength/speed is actually trained relatively quickly so falls away quickly too. Therefore if you do lots of speedwork on December it will have faded by June/July unless you keep it up. However the downside of starting it too soon is that doing loads of speed/strength generally leaves you too knackered to do proper base work. Therefore leave doing speedwork/intervals until later in the year when you can let the endurance work slide and supplement it with speedwork/intervals. You will be doing less hours riding at this stage but higher intensity, and your base will help you tolerate the higher overall load.

Intervals work because you can get to a higher level of intensity in a few minutes than you can working hard over say an hour and that short time doing high intensity work has a very potent training effect. Beware though intervals in z4/z5 tax you a lot and you don't want to do too much of it especially in winter when you can pick up colds etc easily. Another good reason to leave it out until you are ready for it. The trick is to know when to start speed and at what level to pitch it without going backwards.

By the time you come to your event your endurance should be intact and you will have the added advantage of speed/strength.