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To be rational though - the TB is a 100/120mm race FS 29er made mainly for long distance endurance type stuff. an orange 5 is quite different really given it's significant amount of travel and more burly, all mountain. The TB is also quite small sizewise even in XL, I'm 5'11"and on a L and it's borderline too small but works OK. I wouldn't tar every 29er with that brush. I've ridden a lot of them Inc niners, anthem29, epic etc and some work for me and some simply don't. Same with normal mtbs though - giants I don't get on with. Anyway dunno what you were expecting but it is disappointing not to get what you think you should. I've done several thousand ks on my TB now Inc Alps trips and a fair few long distance events, it's quite good for that, less suitable to the Flegere DH in Chamonix although it coped quite well !!
Rode a Tallboy home tonight. Instantly felt better than the Scale. I'll give a sound thrashing tomorrow before taking it back to the shop & trying a Butcher.
Anyway dunno what you were expecting but it is disappointing not to get what you think you should.
I have read a lot about the pros and cons of 29ers over the last couple of years or so when I have been thinking about getting one. Part of that is that they are supposed to suit the taller rider (I'm 6' 4") so I thought that might also be a benefit to me, not that I feel cramped on a 26er but I've never ridden anything else obviously.
Using What MTB's summary of the Pros & Cons of 29ers, this is what I expected:
[b]Pros[/b]
[i]Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps[/i] - didn't notice any difference
[i]More traction from more tyre on the ground [/i]- didn't notice any difference but willing to accept that this is very subjective based on tyres and ground conditions
[i]More rolling momentum at speed[/i] - Gave it a good thrashing whenever possible especially on wide, flattish terrain but didn't notice anything in particular but willing to accept that this aspect may only show itself under controlled situations like timed racing
[i]More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG[/i] - didn't notice this effect either but again willing to accept that some might find it so
[i]Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit[/i] - The fit felt fine to me but then again so do all my 26ers
[b]Cons[/b]
[i]Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride[/i] - It certainly felt very lethargic and wooden
[i]Harder to accelerate[/i] - Very noticeable, every time I tried to accelerate it felt very reluctant
[i]Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles[/i] - Very noticeable again but willing to accept that with a bit more practice this would be a minor fault that could be easily overcome
[i]Slightly slower turning ability[/i] - VERY noticeable and I would say major contribution to overall sluggish feel of the bike under most conditions
[i]Heavier than comparable 26er[/i] - Didn't especially notice this over my Orange 5 under static conditions but it did feel much heavier in terms of performance
Usually got a number of XL Singular 29ers here (Herts) for folks to try if you are interested.
Pros
Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps - didn't notice any difference.
[b]Perhaps if you'd ridden with a group on 26ers you would have appreciated how quickly their bikes decellerate in very bumpy terrain whilst the 29er holds speed through this stuff.[/b]
More traction from more tyre on the ground - didn't notice any difference but willing to accept that this is very subjective based on tyres and ground conditions.
[b]Try taking on a technical loose climb and watch the 26ers lose traction and stall whilst the 29er spins past.[/b]
More rolling momentum at speed - Gave it a good thrashing whenever possible especially on wide, flattish terrain but didn't notice anything in particular but willing to accept that this aspect may only show itself under controlled situations like timed racing.
[b]Speed is less apparent on a 29er due to the dulling of trail chatter. It may not feel so but you are actually travelling quicker. This is akin to the lack of speed awareness that one gets when they drive a luxury car.[/b]
More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG - didn't notice this effect either but again willing to accept that some might find it so.
[b]As above.[/b]
Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit - The fit felt fine to me but then again so do all my 26ers.
[b]I agree with you on this one. Fit for me was never an issue on my 26ers.[/b]
Cons
Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride - It certainly felt very lethargic and wooden.
[b]They do in muddy conditions as more mud sticks to the tyre. In dry conditions this is not a real issue. I'm an Aussie and in dry conditions the 29er is a definite advantage and races are being won on them.[/b]
Harder to accelerate - Very noticeable, every time I tried to accelerate it felt very reluctant.
[b]They are a little slower on burst acceleration but this is often outweighed by the improved traction and speed through the bend. Specific to the trail I think.[/b]
Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles - Very noticeable again but willing to accept that with a bit more practice this would be a minor fault that could be easily overcome.
[b]Need more practice - it is different[/b]
Slightly slower turning ability - VERY noticeable and I would say major contribution to overall sluggish feel of the bike under most conditions.
[b]You adjust to that and learn to pick better lines. I keep up with my 26er buddies in the tight and twisty stuff where 29ers apparently struggle. I've never stalled on a switchback that my 26er mates made.[/b]
Heavier than comparable 26er - Didn't especially notice this over my Orange 5 under static conditions but it did feel much heavier in terms of performance.
[b]Not really relevant for most trail riders including me - its about the fun after all. Weight is moot.[/b]
i think we're over analysing here, the OP didn't like the tall Boy, he wasn't exactly slagging off 29ers, some bikes feel right, some don't 26" or 29" and i understand that, i've jumped on bikes and it felt instantly wrong and i've had no confidence riding them, others i've loved from the start.
it took me a while to get used to 29ers, felt ok to jump on but it is a different riding style and once i adapted (and it'll take differing amounts of time for each individual) it felt much more comfy and confidence inspiring
so in conclusion, ignore what the mags say, they are one person's opinion. try a few 29ers if you can and make up your own mind based on a range of frames rather than one that is aimed at a very narrow genre of riding (endurance race)
Spot on Rocketdog. I love my 29er, because of the way it feels. It totally reminds of how it felt carving through trails when I got my first [i]proper[/i] MTB...
Do you really think they're a different riding style RD? I really haven't found that at all unless you mean that they have different strengths/weaknesses that you learn to compensate for.
I agree with rocketdog, I've needed to change the way I ride a bit for my swift. I'd say the less you brake and the more you allow the momentum to carry you through things the better. I know the is true of mtbing per say but I reckon it's even more important on a 29er.
But that's the same for riding say a full susser over a hardtail - it's just tailoring your riding to suit different bikes - I don't really consider that specific to 29ers.
i think we're over analysing here, the OP didn't like the tall Boy, he wasn't exactly slagging off 29ers, some bikes feel right, some don't 26" or 29" and i understand that, i've jumped on bikes and it felt instantly wrong and i've had no confidence riding them, others i've loved from the start.
As it was my first experience of riding a 29er, I was very surprised that I was unable to detect any of "typical" advantages that are supposed to define a 29er. Especially so because this was a top of the range model that has been so highly rated by magazine testers.
Maybe I was naive to expect that it would perform like my Orange 5 but I had also been led to believe that a FS 29er needs less travel than a 26er so assumed that they should be comparible. Obviously they are not.
I am currently in the process of arranging a test of a Singular Swift which so many posters seem to rate, so will let you know how I get on with that. It certainly is a lovely looking bike and if it goes half a well as in looks then I should be convinced.
I'll let you know how I get on.
am currently in the process of arranging a test of a Singular Swift
i can guarantee it won't feel or ride like your 5 😉
[forzafkawi]
welcome to test out my XL swift - 1x9 with 80mm front forks - based in woking
I have had a Swift for over two years - fits and works well - i'm 6' 6" and for the first time I have had a mountain bike that fits me..
took a risk on the swift after demoing a size large - not so much money to get wrong
Am think about full sus..
biggest issue is the lack of xl size demo bikes - full sus is a whole lot more money and thus would really like to do proper tests..
looking at the Salsa Spearfish - wonder if their are any XL's about for testing
i can guarantee it won't feel or ride like your 5
LOL!
I'm going for the rigid SS. Will I be allowed to compare it to my Genesis iO?
29ers do roll over stuff better giving the feel of a bit more suspension than it actually has, but a 100mm xc bike like the tb is never going to feel as plush as the 5 with 140mm. I don't know what the op was hoping for ,as they are aimed at different types of riding. Also I'd agree about riding differently. I reckon it took me a couple of months to be totally at ease on mine, but I wouldn't go back now
welcome to test out my XL swift - 1x9 with 80mm front forks - based in woking
Thanks for the offer rootes1, that config is almost identical to my Inbred - 1x9 with 100mm RockShox Rebas. Under normal circumstances I might have taken you up on it but I'm going for a rigid SS config on the Swift.
The beauty with the design is though it could morph into one similar to yours in the future.
i started off with rigid on the swift but sus is better..
mine is an older orange 'geared' swift.
Si
My take on it after two weeks and 200 miles on a rigid Scandal. Ridden all sorts of terrain - local woods, long rides on easy trails (railway paths and towpaths), Rothiemurchus and Glen Feshie, Glentress, Pentlands, bit of commuting.
Very impressed with it - it's far more useable than a rigid 26er would be, and in swoopy open stuff it's a hoot, but certainly wouldn't want it as an only bike.
[b]Pros[/b]
Roll smoother and faster over holes and bumps - [i]yes, definitely. Less upset by braking bumps, smallish holes and square edges. Seriously impressed with how much a rigid bike can handle [/i]
More traction from more tyre on the ground - [i] maybe, but I think the bigger wheels rolling over stuff has more to do with it than contact patch. Have ridden up some loose steep stuff and steps I normally wouldn't make on a 26er, and it can take smooth, sweeping corners well quick [/i]
More rolling momentum at speed [i] think so - seems to carry speed a bit better (or rather feels like it looses speed a bit less easily than a 26er if that is different) [/i]
More stability due to longer wheelbase and lower CoG - [i] certainly feels stable and much more "in" the bike than 26ers which IMO is good thing as long as you keep pedal clearance [/i]
Proportionate wheel size to body height helps taller riders get better bike fit - [i] I'm 5' 11" and riding an 18 frame so not sure I can comment here cos they don't make 29ers much smaller than that [/i]
[b]Cons[/b]
Larger wheels create more drag and less lively ride - [i] not hugely noticable - suspect rigid ride "involvement" is offset by any negatives here[/i]
Harder to accelerate - [i] Yes - first couple of pedal strokes seem a bit more laboured getting up to speed, but once you're going you're in business, and carrying speed means less acceleration anyway[/i]
Harder to manual wheelie because of higher axles - [i]Very noticeable, but possibly doesn't matter as much as rolls over things better and more "in" the bike so less teetering over normal sized drops etc [/i]
Slightly slower turning ability - [i] Sweeping turns and berms are ace , but slow speed stuff is a more of a challenge - need to "flick" the bike into turns a lot more. The turning circle is a bit larger too; there's one trail junction I ride that I basically have to do almost a complete turn back on myself to get into and i can do that on 26er but have to hop the back wheel round a bit on 29er - it just don't fit. [/i]
Heavier than comparable 26er - [i] Can't really say. 29er is lightest MTB - probably because it's fully rigid - don't think much in it[/i]
Just add my tuppence worth to the debate, i have a turner flux and a jamis 853 dragon 29er hardtail, last weekend we rode a few trails which you could call rocky technical and slightly upwards ok abit more in places.
The flux is 26inch 120mm forks, 100mm rear give or take, lightish build with maxle forks.
The dragon is 120mm forks 29er hardtail but is a 2x10 27 by 36 being the easiest gear standard forks, both are tubeless.
So we took both bikes, my mate on dragon me on flux, on the climbs both climbed well but the gearing on the dragon makes it a good workout, i dont care what the mags say give me a triple anyday with 22 by 34 easiest gear. On the downs the dragon is as fast as the flux, i rode both swapping from time to time. On downhill swoopy corners the dragon stuck better.
But the dragon is defo the better bike on any rocky flat, slight climbs or slopes, several times the flux's wheels would drop in a dip and stop the bike but the dragon just rolled over, so we decided on the way home that short travel fs 29er is probaly the best bike to have, so i am looking at tallboys, niner jet etc, sat on a niner jet today med size it had a stem 130mm and a layback post but still felt cramped. Here endeth the first lesson. Sorry its abit long.