[Closed] First century. Is 5 hours achievable?

All depends on how flat it is. However the closed roads might not help. I did the first Velothon Wales which was closed roads and it was absolute bedlam. I tried to get a decent early start but still failed to get into a group that knew what it was doing. Instead, there were thousands of riders all over the roads, which meant that no-one could see anything. We set a decent pace but no-one could see any road furniture which meant people were hitting bollards and kerbs and stuff left and right, and going down, so any junction had to be negotiated with extreme care. Then when the roads narrowed the sheer traffic meant we slowed right down. And when we hit some of the bigger descents it was just terrifying, it was worse than heavy city traffic.

Imagine the last few km of a flat TdF stage only slower, less skilled and with ten thousand riders. Hope yours is better 🙂

Will groups help me if I can get some drafting tow?

Yup. I see decidedly average riders getting far higher averages than usual at Sportives. However, if doing 75 @ 18, 100 @ 20mph is a fair change. Is it a flat or hilly route? You'd probably also be avoiding any stops, which makes things that bit harder again

That's quite a target unless you get in a very well organised group and carry all your fluid and nutrition with you so you don't have to stop

How much group riding have you done? Sub five hours is a good time for a club rider. Closed roads and a start at the front of the bunch could see you fine. More likely, with no previous time, a mid-pack start and usual chaos, you won't. You'll be well under six hours based on fitness.

For a century, I don't stop, take two 1L SIS bottles, five gels and a few easy to eat bars plus two packs of bloks. Still not under 4hrs in Ridel London (4:06 best so far), except for a 100 mile TT, and that's cheating really (flat course and aero position, but no drafting).

Well I shaved about 1 hr for an 80 mile closed road sportive off my solo time due to drafting. I found no shortage of people or groups at my level to get into and people are happy to work together as everyone benefits. The biggest problem with it was pacing myself because once you're in a group you want to stay in it so found myself pushing a lot harder than I interned earlier on. My wheels fell of in the last 6 miles or so and I dropped off the back of the group I was in at that point and just couldn't get back on and cramp was starting to set in. But I ended up doing 81 miles in something like 4hrs 15 mins or so (can't remember the exact time but under 4.5hrs) where I'd normally be looking at around 3hrs for 50 miles (though much hillier) on a normal solo weekend ride, so a lot quicker than riding solo.

Still, 5hrs (or the early 5hrs) for 100 miles is achievable if you get in with the right groups over the course of the ride.

But closed road sportives are so much better though. I'm not actually sure why people bother with sportives that are not closed road events...i'd just prefer to ride the route on my own or with a couple of mates at our leisure.

I've also seen riders put up surprising times after closed road sportives, Etape Loch Ness in particular.

Personally I always outperform myself in Sportives, closed roads or not. Drafting and just general motivation having lots of riders around me always pushes me.

For what it's worth, when I was comfortable with 17.5mph centuries, I still managed a 19mph Bealach na Ba Sportive.

Best solo century after that was just over 19mph on a relatively flat circuit.

I would say go for it, always nice to have an ambitious target in mind!

For a century, I don’t stop, take two 1L SIS bottles, five gels and a few easy to eat bars plus two packs of bloks. Still not under 4hrs in Ridel London (4:06 best so far), except for a 100 mile TT, and that’s cheating really (flat course and aero position, but no drafting).

Which reminds me, make sure to find out which products work for you in advance. Otherwise the effects could be dire!

13thfloormonk

Member

I’ve also seen riders put up surprising times after closed road sportives, Etape Loch Ness in particular.

haha, that was the very sportive that came to mind when I was writing that!

I don't plan on stopping unless I really need to. 2 big water bottles and nutrition in a top tube bag. And maybe a spare bottle in my pocket depending on the heat

In principle sounds very doable if you're knocking out 75 miles @18 on your own, just the luck of getting a good consistent group all the way round.
You'd also need to be mentally up for it, which may be difficult on a sportive - ie 100 in 5 hrs isn't just going to happen, you'd have to be very focussed.

Just as a side note: if I ever enter a sportive i’ll be smashing every single food stop on the way round. No way am I handing over a big wedge of entry fee and letting them off the hook!

Opportunities for drafting are plentiful, but it's a pretty lumpy course. Like others have said, you'll only do it if you don't stop for water or food.

I'm much more relaxed about my VeloBrum effort, I've not done masses of training so if I get in under 6 hours I'll be very happy. And, if I'm honest, quite surprised, I expect to be nearer 7...

Mashr. In that case, can I recommend the Tour De Lauder in the Scottish Borders? The only sportive I've done where I've has a calorie surplus after 89 miles and plenty hills. Proper homemade grub all the way around. They put the WI to shame.

On the Velo course it's doable, but it'll take a good effort. If you're in an early start pen, and get in the wheels of a fast group then maybe, but any disruption, any faffing or even picking the wrong group will make it harder.

And if you do need to stop, I highly recommend not using the feed stations and just diving into a shop for water and a sausage role.

slowpuncheur

Member

Mashr. In that case, can I recommend the Tour De Lauder in the Scottish Borders? The only sportive I’ve done where I’ve has a calorie surplus after 89 miles and plenty hills. Proper homemade grub all the way around. They put the WI to shame.

Now this ^ is more useful Sportive info

Slight hi jack, has anyone ridden Velo Brum under another rider's name? I have the opportunity to ride due to a friend breaking his foot, but despite my best efforts they won't change the name on the entry.

Hoping for around 5 hours, there's a few of us together starting from Green 4 if you happen to be in that pen?

Not sure what to expect regarding early traffic, hopefully we can get through sharpish and avoid any hold ups. Hopefully not stopping unless someone really needs to.

If it's flat and you can already manage 75 miles at 18mph solo then you will have no bother doing sub 5 hrs if you push yourself, find a group, and don't stop. Averaging 20 mph on a calm day on the flat is well within capabilities of most reasonably fit cyclists, so in a group id expect more than that

If it's remotely hilly however that's a whole different story but you'll still go faster than on a solo ride.

For example I remember doing a 70 mile hilly sportive about a year ago having not been on the bike in about 12 months previously. I'd say my ftp was around 200 at the time. I averaged 17 mph. I'm hugely fitter now, ftp is over 260 watts, and i struggle to manage 17mph on the same route riding solo.

haha, that was the very sportive that came to mind when I was writing that!

You getting defensive after seeing a buddy's 22mph average as well then? 😉

Opportunities for drafting are plentiful, but it’s a pretty lumpy course. Like others have said, you’ll only do it if you don’t stop for water or food.

[controversy]

Doesn't everyone work to riding time only? I mean, obviously not taking the piss and stopping for a half hour breather, but if you take ten minutes to get through the queue in order to top up water and fill pockets, I don't feel that should be held against you, especially since you need to expend some effort getting back up to pace after!

[/controversy]

You're not giving a lot of info to go on but it sounds like you can go sub5.

I did PRL in 5:15 last year on an Arkose with puncture, food and toilet stops. Felt like I could have gone sub 5 without bother. I was in a good trio rotating well for around the first third but then solo or hopping between riders. I mostly did 100-110km solo training rides at a similar speed (occasionally quicker) so reckon you'd have the legs. If you can get in a reasonably disciplined group it'll obviously help a lot.

I'm doing the 42 mile VB route but it'll be a good 105km including riding into Birmingham and back from Coventry. I am originally from near Corley/Fillongley so am looking to a good smash up on closed roads I'm familiar with!

@tired - that's a great time for the PRL100! Out of curiousity are you racing and if so, what cat?

Getting the right group is key. A few years ago I did the Ripon Revolution, the first part of the ride was hilly so for me being solo was fine as I could go at my own pace. At the last food stop I realised that the last 25 miles or so were in to a head wind back up the Vale of York so needed to get in a group.

The first group that went past were way too quick for me but the second group of three or four looked about right. It took 3 miles to catch them. We worked pretty well together and picked up another rider or two on the way and ended up doing 20mph+ into the headwind. From the speed we passed solo riders it was so obvious the difference even a small group makes. It's the only time I've managed a gold standard on a sportive - I was about two minutes inside the time limit!

13thfloormonk - nope it's total time sorry!

13thfloormonk

Member
You getting defensive after seeing a buddy’s 22mph average as well then? 😉

22 does seem to be the magic Loch Ness number!

My first road century was in South Downs with circa 8000 feet of climbing and it took me a shade over 6 hours. Could have gone a bit quicker but was holding back for the 2 steepest climbs (Turkey Island and Harvesting Lane for those who know them) in the last 20 miles.

Slight hi jack, has anyone ridden Velo Brum under another rider’s name? I have the opportunity to ride due to a friend breaking his foot, but despite my best efforts they won’t change the name on the entry.

Look at Page 3 here:

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/346451/4-5/

Register 'for him' on the Saturday, the ride using his name/number on the Sunday.

Doesn’t everyone work to riding time only?

Rats, I guess my sub 5-hour Bealach na Ba doesn't stand then, 5:05 it is 🙁

I'll just tell myself that I would have gone quicker if my computer was telling me total time and not riding time 😉

Personally, being honest I know I couldn't do sub 5hrs for a 100miles, a 20mph Avg would have my HR up too high to be sustainable.

I'd try my best to ignore Avg speeds or elapsed time and just manage HR and occasionally check distance covered...

As you say if your chopping along nicely in a bunch and it drags your Avg speed up great, so long as it's at a sustainable work rate, but trying to hold onto some He-Man's wheel on a climb, putting yourself deep into Z5 when you have another 65 miles to go is a sure-fire way to blow yourself up...

It might be worth looking at the course profile (if you have one) to know where the bigger climbs are, where you need to keep something in the tank and/or where (if your still feeling fresh, towards the last 20-25 miles) you could possibly bump the pace up and improve your finishing time with less risk to your overall chances of finishing at all...

Around 1300 metres of elevation, so I'd guess a mixture of flat/undulating.

A controversial view perhaps but why don't you just ride it, enjoy it and then see what time you did at the end?

Otherwise it's a bit like the London marathon. Last year I managed 3 hours 12 minutes.

On Sunday I tried to beat that but inevitably I got bored and switched over to something else.

Haze I think I'm meant to be in green 4 but I told a lad I used to work with I would drop back and start off with him. Not sure it's going to help my time though as he's slower than me and is in the last starting pen purple 2. Going to have to have a word with him later I think cause I'm pretty set on getting a good time

MTB idle for me the enjoyment is from pushing myself to see what I'm capable of.

No idea how many are each pen - a fair few I guess - but you're welcome to jump onto our little bunch. I'll be with the Stourbridge guys (orange jerseys)

 Averaging 20 mph on a calm day on the flat is well within capabilities of most reasonably fit cyclists,

I know we've done this before, but your expectations of "reasonably fit" are WAY too high.

You probably stand a good chance. When I was preparing for ride London in 2015 most of my training rides of 60-80 miles were a sedate 14/15mph. I started to worry I may end up missing the cut off for the full distance esp if any mechanicals happen.
Some advice from here helped- I ended up doing the 100 in 5.43 (total time with no stops) so an average speed just over 18mph.
I did the first 40 miles in just under 2 hours- panicked when I realised that was an unknown to me 20mph so eased off in case I had gone off too fast. Sometimes wonder if I backed off too much. I struggled to get into a group for any drafting- they were either too fast or too slow.
I carried 2 1l bottles on the bike and a .75l in my pocket so I'd not need to stop and top up. Didn't need the 3rd bottle and actually had drink left in the 2nd bottle at the end.

Haze I'll look out for you then. And try and tag along if that's okay

I'll be in Red 2 @ 0705 so might see you there!

As others have said - getting on a good group near the front will set you up much better than dealing with the carnage toward the back end.
I've done Ride London twice and had approx 90 mins of stopped time on both efforts - mostly due to Waiting around behind crashes in the Surrey hills.

Assuming you mean total time, from crossing the line to the end (i.e. not just moving time)...

20mph is about 220w on the flat on the drops I think. Maybe 180 if you're drafting at that speed.

It's perfectly doable if a) you don't stop for food (fine) b) you manage to find a group of riders that also don't want to stop for food and are smashing it for the entire thing (in my experience unlikely) c) you're pretty fit (how long can you sustain 20mph by yourself?)

I've done a lot of sportives, it's very rare to find people sustaining more than 20mph for any decent length of time. So basically, unless you're fit enough to do a solo effort at that power, I think it's unlikely.

Edit: the only time i've found groups that are actually going quickly in sportives are in the first few pens.

Interesting. I just checked out an Etape Caledonia ride I did. 81 miles and 4h12m, so just under 20mph average.That was a notable day as around 1/4 of the route I was in a big group - maybe 50-60 riders. I'd say that upped my average pace a wee bit for that part of it and helped save energy for the last 1/2. Not sure I could have sustained that pace for another 19 miles either 😉

My FTP is around 310 320 ish I think it it was the last time I did a ramp test. On an aero bike with carbon aero wheels if that makes any odds. Every little helps

I think you could do it providing you get in the right group. I managed a 19.3mph average for the 2015 welsh velo. At that time (or now) there's no way I could have managed a solo windy 75 miles at 18mph. When you enter you've got to be optimistic about your estimated finnishing time. Otherwise your stuck back with all the riffraff like MG experienced 😉. With a bit more prep I could have done 20mph+ easily. The group I was in were over 22mph untill the bottom of the Tumble when it all fell apart. It was leapfrogging from group to group for me then.

I'm riding for charity, and they've put us all in Red 1. I did 15.4 for 83 miles on Sunday, and judging by the charity's FB group I'm one of the quicker ones. So you've got to get past all of us for a start.

Anyone got a snow plough I can use ?

13thfloormonk

...For what it’s worth, when I was comfortable with 17.5mph centuries, I still managed a 19mph Bealach na Ba Sportive...

That was the event that put me off sportives. My first and only.

I don't like folk riding close to me, and of course, that is an expectation in an event like that - as I discovered.

Part of the problem is I ride singlespeed so my approach to hills etc is different - standard SS - peel off and go like the clappers on the approach and gradually die as speed fades away up the slope.

The problem is it looks like grandstanding to gearies so there's shaking of heads as they pass, whereas attacking the hill to gain as much help from your momentum is standard SS practice because you know you're going to suffer.

19mph average on that circuit is better than respectable. Well done.

Oops, full disclosure, I got my maths wrong, I didn't manage 19mph 😳

In fact, it woukd have been even slower since apparently we're doing total time, not riding time 😉

I could imagine a few tuts and shaking of heads if you went stamping off up the climbs, there's always some clubby types who think everyone else has to ride by their rules etc.

You've never ridden a century and have aspirations for the first one to be sub 5 hours...

I'm struggling to get my head around that.

Sub 5 hours or sub 5 hours when strava has taken the stops out are two different things- the latter is MUCH easier.

You're probably gonna need to stop to fill bottles once at least and have a piss. So you're probably talking riding at 21 average for 5 hours with a tiny stop.

Big ask for someone who's never ridden 100 miles before.

Guess it all comes down to how many hills and how much draft is available at the right speeds and places on the day.

Trouble is later in the miles the riders get spread out and readily available 22mph+ draft gets harder to find.

If I was a betting man I'd say no. I ride solo at 18 regularly in the hills and have done plenty of centurys- could I do an actual sub 5 hour 100- doubt it unless it was pan flat!

Best of luck though, have fun trying and if you do it then well done!

When you enter you’ve got to be optimistic about your estimated finnishing time. Otherwise your stuck back with all the riffraff like MG experienced

I was! Apparently not as optimistic as everyone else 🙂

Sounds like there are a lot of road bike riders on here 🙂
Good luck with the VB - hope it works out the way that you hope.

Reading all these posts is making me look forward to our yearly 100 mile ride - quiet Sussex lanes ( might as well be closed roads,even though they aren't) only a few decent hills, a leisurely pub stop at 53 miles (after the biggest hill) with just a handful of other riders to contend with - and all straight from my doorstep, without any entry fees, ballots, or "day before" registration.

Lovely

If he had an ftp of 320 and it's not hilly (Is it hilly??) I think he could do this fairly easily.

You don't need anything like 220 watts to hold 20mph on the flat (Or at least I don't). Following a thread the other day where we discussed it, I checked on a pan flat part of the route I did the other day. No wind, riding in the drops...I required less than 190 watts to do over 20mph solo. Unless the op is massively unaerodynamic I can't see why he would require much more. My brother did ride London as his first century and beat 5 hrs (just)..and I'm pretty sure his ftp was the wrong side of 300 at the time.

Throw in a couple of climbs however and your 20mph average goes out the window pretty quickly! Good luck anyhow op..let us know how you get on.

I've seen the 220w on the flat for 20mph in a few places. My own experiences of 20mph average rides over reasonable differences with a power meter also is around this.

https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/cycling-power.php

http://bikecalculator.com/examples.html

Belugabob - your ride sounds good. What is it and when do you do it? And do you take hangers on? All this talk of 20mph and 25mph sound very unpleasant...personally I’d be happy with a solid 15-17mph and still be able to enjoy my pint at the end

I’m in the last pen to head out on the road and very aware that if they don’t release everyone on time (they won’t) then a puncture might mean I fail to make the 14 mile cut off on time.

100 miles is no problem - but I’m not fast.

Flattish course, so 15-17mph looks about right. I will be stopping at the feed stations.

I’ve seen the 220w on the flat for 20mph in a few places

That second link you posted, when you put the numbers in, on the drops 200 watts give you over 21mph. In line with my exp. Obviously it depends on how aero you and your bike are, your tyres, the road surface etc..

Reading all these posts is making me look forward to our yearly 100 mile ride – quiet Sussex lanes

Would you mind sharing the route? Always looking for at least one 100 mile ride around the Sussex countryside every year. Didn't think my last one through very well and realised the only way i was going to get it to 100 miles was to divert towards the end and ride up High & Over at Alfriston into a headwind!

I’m in the last pen to head out on the road and very aware that if they don’t release everyone on time (they won’t) then a puncture might mean I fail to make the 14 mile cut off on time.
100 miles is no problem – but I’m not fast.
Flattish course, so 15-17mph looks about right. I will be stopping at the feed stations.

Snap, except I'm in the second to last pen. If you see a chap in a Refreshers top, riding a Ritchey Logic, gis a wave 🙂

My FTP is around 310 320 ish I think it it was the last time I did a ramp test. On an aero bike with carbon aero wheels if that makes any odds. Every little helps

Depends how heavy you are (if a hilly route) and how big you are as you yourself as far more drag than your bike does. But as you say, every little helps. A small gain in 100 different places accumulates to a significant gain.

Pacing is the issue though as I hinted at with my first post...I was swept along with the crowd at a pace that was a bit ambitious for me and blew a gasket in the last 6 miles or so, but if you're hanging onto a bunch the benefit of the draft probably makes up for the risk of your pace dropping off at the end in terms of your overall time.

I had a very similar thought to the OP when I was lining up for the PRL in 2017. How hard can it be?? I had done a couple of centuries but they were 7 and 14 years before so no bearing on what I was about to do.
Well I was fairly fit for me, but set off too quick with some very fast mates, lost them when I slowed for a brief chat with Bullheart, and then never caught them again. I ended up looking for a train that was going about my speed as everyone passing me was flying, and I seemed to be flying past others. After about 40mins I turned and realised I was head of the train!! No one helped my train, and I just couldnt get on the back of a faster group. I had the odd bit of help here and there but was pretty much on my own from Richmond to the end. From Kingston on I was slowly turning myself inside out, and by the end came over all emotional as I was so broken and was really shaky after I crossed the line. My mates were fine, and about 10mins faster but with a few stops for me (they waited till they saw me and buggered off without helping)

Final time was about 5hrs 30mins which was just outside the top 25% I seem to remember. Just looked at my Strava for it, and my average speed was actually pretty constant, although the first half was quicker, and it estimates my power to be 177W average over the course.

So how hard is it to do a 5hr century? For me, I'd need a more training than I did and to be in a group aiming for the time, otherwise no chance. I'm not sure I'd ever have the legs to do it solo, but as you can see from the responses above everyone is different.

IHN - 16st cropped beard idiot here. No idea what kit I’ll be wearing but I’ll be on a black and white Genesis Zero.

If your FTP really is over 300W and you are in any shape or form adapted for endurance riding then you should have no difficulty doing a flatish century in under 5 hours.

Things you can do to get a good time
- Get there early to get a place at the front to avoid traffic
- Wake up even earlier to eat carbs and take a dump
- Have a solid tried and tested ride nutrition strategy - consume 60-80g per hour
- Carry 4 large bottles on the bike so you don't need to stop.
- Piss in your shorts if you need to
- Make friends with fast riders and team up with them. Use some tactful positioning if you need to in order to not get dropped on climbs.
- Get your pacing right.

It's a sportive though you can try to enjoy yourself too 🙂

Will groups help me if I can get some drafting tow?

Apologies if I'm making the wrong assumption here, but if you are asking that question, I'm guessing you don't have much experience of riding in a group?
If that is the case, don't underestimate what it takes to ride effectivity and safely in a group, especially in a sportive, where you are likely to have a potentially chaotic mix of experienced and inexperienced riders.
Group riding takes a bit of skill and it takes time to learn how to do it properly. A Sportive won't be the easiest place to start!

– Piss in your shorts if you need to

Is this a joke? This seems a bit yukky but out of curiosity if you let it trickle slowly does the wind dry your shorts quick enough that your shorts aren't obviously dripping? 🙂

My stop at an official PRL100 toilet ended up costing quite a bit of time but my normal nip-behind-a-hedge is probably 2 min tops (incl. time to get up to speed). Of course if you end up dropping out a good chaingang it's irritating but is it really worth it for a sportive?

It takes about 180W to ride at 20mph solo, on the flat with no wind according to the calculators and that fits well with my experience.

The last solo road ride I did was 80km at 29km/h (18mph) at an average of 186W, but included 1000m of climbing and it was bloody windy. One before that was 59km at the same speed with 775m of climbing at a 203W average (power from a power meter). I'm about 73Kg at the moment.

I can ride in groups and I'd be pretty confident of a sub 5 hour 100 in a good group on a rolling course. My FTP is probably around 285 at the moment, so with 300+ you should be fine if you know how to ride with others - it could be stressful in sportives which have a high proportion of inexperienced riders, but if you pick the right group it'll be fine.

Only flat-ish, not flat.

Yeh pissing in shorts a massive no no on a sportive. In a road race or triathlon race fine. But the whole thing about a sportive is it's not a race.

that's not flat, but 1500m over 160km is not too bad. Can you get out with a chain gang over the next week to do an introduction to group riding with people who can do it? It's not rocket science, but you have to be smooth, relaxed, trust those around you, and ride close (apologies if you already do plenty of it, but as KCR notes up there, it doesn't sound like you do)

Might not be the best etiquette wise but you could just sit on. IME it's rare to have a full group taking turns, I've only ever seen it in handicap races.

It's been a while since I did a sportive, are groups even that organised anyway? Especially over a 5 hour distance and competing for space.

Might not be the best etiquette wise but you could just sit on.

Yup, s'what I do, sit on for a bit, then go forward so they can sit on if they want to. If they do, fine, if they don't I find the next one to sit on.

Starting in a good group is key - I did london 100 (sub 5) from a 6 hr group. I spent a lot of time on my own.

Know the course; gel before the hills.

Good luck finding a group who can work together - any sportive I've ever done seems to be everyone trying to avoid a turn on the front.

I've done some sportives before so I have had a bit of experience in group riding.
Not sure on the pissing my pants tactic although my bladders not what it used to be. Sounds like jumping on the right pack is the best tactic and if it's not shifting enough try and bridge up to the next pack.

Re hydration, some long distance racers are using a camelbak bladder in a frame bag. James Hayden in last couple of TCR's for example. Paying good money to ride for 5 hours near threshold and probably on the drops isn't my idea of a good day out on the bike but good luck if you give it a go.

I'm with thomthumb, if you're strong you'll end up with a bunch of wheelsuckers trying not to freehweel to avoid detection.

gel before the hills

Or better still, keep yourself topped up throughout 😉

. But the whole thing about a sportive is it’s not a race.

We all know its not a race, but the Velo is very close. Closed roads, timming and the results list you in order of your finishing time, so all but a race in name.
But whether it is or not plenty of riders put as much effort into training and preperation as "proper" racers do. Their goals whether its to just finish or go under 5hrs are just as valid as any cat3-4's racing ambitions.

`onewheelgood Subscriber

Only flat-ish, not flat

Yorkshire flat shall we call it?

You don’t need anything like 220 watts to hold 20mph on the flat

195 watts gives me 23 mph. On my TT bike for 12 hours. And I'm pretty aero. You'll need about 175 in a good group and able to hold a wheel.

Paying good money to ride for 5 hours near threshold

You left off the "on closed roads".

And EAT SOMETHING EVERY 30-45 MINUTES, I alternate a gel and a soft bar of some easy to consume form. With bloks or jelly babies ad libitem

– Piss in your shorts if you need to

Is this a joke? This seems a bit yukky but out of curiosity if you let it trickle slowly does the wind dry your shorts quick enough that your shorts aren’t obviously dripping?

I suppose it depends on how much time means to you. Even if you only lose 2 minutes then that is the difference between basic and top of the line aero wheels over 160km.

I don't see myself doing it in a sportif, but I'd certainly rather piss myself in a race rather than lose the peloton. A pro-incontinental recently boasted to me that he peed 4 times during a race, I just hope I wasn't riding behind him when he did it.

This website has a handy tool for working out pacing strategy, you need to input a gpx of the route and your basic performance numbers.

Racecraft trump's FTP

Me and a mate have same FTP and same w/kg.

Due to him loving zwift and rarely riding with a group outside of events he places waaaaaaaay below his supposed FTP ability.

If your group skills are poor then FTP means very little unless you have the ability to monster along on a solo break.

It's not just riding in the group but being able to read the group,see who's working,who's along for the tow and work out where the split on the climbs will be and making sure your on the right side of it for your ability or you'll end up climbing over the top with a group that's banjoed and needing recovery before pushing on.