I'd like to try to contact the owners of a few choice bits of singletrack to ask for permission to take groups on them once or twice a year. My expectation is that most will ignore me, or refuse, but I'd still like to try.
First step is finding out who owns the land. Google searches all seem to lead to HM Land Registry and their online tool. But although is says that you can find out owner, sold price and boundary for free online, the only options I can see are to pay £3 and download the registry entry.
At this stage, I am just guessing who might own the land and so don't want to pay too many £3s just to find that actually the chunk I want is actually owned by awd Bert up top 'ill.
I've emailed HMLR for assistance, but wanted to know if anyone had any better ideas of finding out who owns what?
I have thought of just rocking up at the farm and asking them, but wasn't convinced that was the best first option.
And whilst we're at it, has anyone got any postive stories to share about getting access to individual trails?
cheers
Just ride it and if you get any issues, start negotiating?
Forgiveness vs permission.
I tried to do this once for a piece of land near me. I tried through the local village FB group...won't be doing that again. Sorry, I didn't have any success either, it seems quite hard to find out, right? I mean I wouldn't have thought "Who owns this" should be a difficult question to answer. Turns out it is.
Just ride it and if you get any issues, start negotiating?
Forgiveness vs permission.
If it was just the OP, then sure - but I don't think that's really on for guided groups.
If it was just the OP, then sure – but I don’t think that’s really on for guided groups.
I’d agree if it was every week, but once or twice a year? You’ll spend more time looking for them than being on the land.
I'm by no means an expert but if you're guiding a group, as opposed to just riding with some mates, aren't you subject to a higher standard in terms of choosing the route, etc?
I'm thinking mostly of from an insurance perspective I suppose, but I can imagine that if you're legally on the hook for a rider in your group coming a cropper that probably gets a lot more complex if you're on some private land you don't technically have permission to ride.
First step is finding out who owns the land. Google searches all seem to lead to HM Land Registry and their online tool. But although is says that you can find out owner, sold price and boundary for free online, the only options I can see are to pay £3 and download the registry entry.
I can help with this bit. It's actually ok if the registration has been digitised (usually only if the land has changed hands recently)
On the land registry there is a map search option. Zoom right in then you know you are on the right spot. You then should have a list of land. It's easier for a house as it'll say 29 Acacia Road or whatever. Land has a vague description. You should then get two download options, a map and a registry entry. The map shows the boundary and the registry entry gives the owner details. You need both to be sure but you can just download the map to start with to see if it looks right. They are £3 each.
are you sure the trails are legal?
If it’s only once or twice a year then I’d just ride the trails and if you come across anyone just be super polite and then ask for permission.
If it is owned by one of the larger landowners, it is likely to be shown here: http://map.whoownsengland.org/
Many thanks all. As Tom says the issue is around insurance. British Cycling prof insurance only covers you on land you have permission or right to be on.
(Which is obviously ridiculous because it means that any time you're lost and stray onto a footpath ( south of the border) you're suddenly uninsured. Just when you might need it most.)
But leaving that aside, there are a few sections that I'd love to incorporate into guided rides, but obviously can't do that if I'm not insured.
Will check out the info above
I have thought of just rocking up at the farm and asking them, but wasn’t convinced that was the best first option.
I'd agree. If the farmer is there and you manage to find them, you'd likely be interrupting their work, which isn't the best start. Turning up on a bike looking like a cyclist probably wouldn't help either (does it ever...).
Brief letter, perhaps? Ask them to text / call / return the enclosed stamped addressed envelope. Makes it easy and less likely to be put aside for later.
are you sure the trails are legal?
Yeah, there's obviously the chance that the trails are pretty cheeky, and drawing attention to them might end with their removal for all.
This is a useful resource for Scotland, but there's valuable reasons why there aren't just signs!
http://www.whoownsscotland.org.uk/index.php
But come the revoloution.....
The fact that the routes are there point to one of two things. a) a Row. Thats easy, start with an OS map then back it up with the local council. a1) Bridelway or above. Ride it. a2)Footpath You'll probably get away with it unless it's a local hot spot in which case asking probably won't imporve it. b) Established tracks? Woodland will be easy if FC or check on big estates nearby. Farmland? Ask the nearest farmer but pick your time. Word of mouth and chatting over the nearets fence will work.
Doing this formally as an established group? Just write a letter after above.
Landresistry only 3 quid. Thats cheaper than the speculative fuel driving around! Just how many patches of land do you want to use?
I’d agree. If the farmer is there and you manage to find them, you’d likely be interrupting their work, which isn’t the best start. Turning up on a bike looking like a cyclist probably wouldn’t help either (does it ever…).
Brief letter, perhaps? Ask them to text / call / return the enclosed stamped addressed envelope. Makes it easy and less likely to be put aside for later.
Exactly what I thought.
are you sure the trails are legal?
Yeah, there’s obviously the chance that the trails are pretty cheeky, and drawing attention to them might end with their removal for all.
Good point, but not an issue in this case. I can see that my use of the word 'trail' led you to think this. They're not trails in the "cut" for mountain bikes sense. They're generally just paths.
For example there are two almost flat trails that lead from the Mam Tor Broken Road onto Hollins Cross. I've never seen a bike on them bit think they look good and useful to link stuff up.
Moving to slightly more contentious is the < deleted the effusive description of it> path from Wooler Knoll down to the bottom of Roman Road. Again, it's not a built trail by any means.
You make a good point, and I wouldn't dream of approaching a land owner about any cheeky built trails. That would be a bad thing to do.