[Closed] Finally, a Garmin alternative?

I've reached the end of the road with Garmin, also.

Last time I was considering buying another computer (currently I ride without rather use my Garmin) the Bryton comps looked useful.

Looks a nice alternative - much prefer a high res monochrome display to a low res colour 😀

Bugger. I've just ordered an 810!

[i] You can create a number of custom data pages[/i]

Thats the gold standard, as far as I'm concerned. It's a well documented reality of the cycling community that there is a wide spectrum of cyclist preferences and the specific tasks we use such accessories for.

Therefore, any OEM that gets this and produces a computer which provides the capability to customise data to be displayed. In my opinion is likely to get the sale.

My first Garmin, 305 edge, had the customisation I wanted. When I obtained a 500 only to discover a reduced ability to customise the data displayed, that along with other issues I didn't have with my 305, really pissed me off.

This is one customer Garmin have lost.
🙂

My Oregon has customisable data fields. I have different profiles set up for a range of activities ; walking, mtb, road cycling, driving, paddling etc

I rather like that. The phone app control is pretty cool. Nice being able to save a gpx route to Dropbox and just access it directly from there.

... though just for balance, I have a 500 and an 810 and never had any trouble with either. Garmin desktop apps and Connect (which I no longer use) do seem a bit rubbish though, I don't know why they don't just junk them and support better integration with 3rd parties who do it better (Strava, TrainingPeaks, Endomondo, MapMyRide, Dropbox, etc.) much like Wahoo are now doing.

Looks like a really good bit of kit and coming with all the mounts is sensibly priced against its competitors.

Will be interesting to see how it takes off and what the UK price is when it's published.

I'm liking its clean approach to mapping. I've previously used custom renders of OSM tiles, with a similar high-contrast monochrome style showing roads and nothing else. It works much better than Garmin's style (and indeed anything else: Google's style is particularly awful and is completely unusable most of the time.)

Shame there seems to be no O-ring style mount, though. That's one of the best features of the Edge series, IMO.

Looks like there's an o-ring style mount in the pack. Bit of a shame they don't share the same garmin mount (I know some have problems with it though and would welcome an improvement) as it would make it a faff to swap between the two if you used both.

Great to see Wahoo actually replying to comments in the section below, pretty refreshing compared to Garmin.

Pre Order now on at £279.99 on Wahoo Website

[i] mrblobby - Member 
though just for balance, I have a 500[/i]

I came to learn the only improvement the 500 had over the 305, was battery life. In every other way, the 500 was inferior to the 305. For what I wanted from a computer.
YMMV.

Looks like there's an o-ring style mount in the pack.

Looks like zip ties to me. I find O-rings infinitely superior, I hate zip ties.

Somewhere deep in the comments is talk of the reason there's no Garmin mount (not open source), ways to modify it so it'll fit and open source drawings of the mount so that customers can make their own. Great to see Wahoo getting involved so much answering questions, a cutting difference to Garmin...

My garmin 810 has finally started working properly after the last round of firmware and app updates, it really is very good. It's just taken too long to get there.

I bought an Edge 705 when they were fairly new, I'm still using it because Garmin are on another planet when it comes to making things work. In the 6 years I've had it, it's constantly lost connection with my PC due to software updates, the mode of sync has changed several times, it won't work with any non-garmin cables (WTF!).

Newer units went touch-screen, which is crap when you're covered in mud and grit, the functionality didn't improve much and the whole experience is a million miles behind comparable devices that you can buy at the same price point.

Look at the software and hardware that goes into a £300 mobile phone and tell me Garmin have done anything other than rest on their laurels and take the piss!

Using a phone is a beter solution entirely from a software point of view, Garmin is only ahead because most phones aren't robust enough and the screens ruin the battery and there's not enough configurable buttons.

It should be a piece of piss to take a phone innards and repackage them into a decent case, with bigger battery, lower spec screen and a few buttons. ANT+ connectivity, and either internet over bluetooth to a phone, or GSM if you want. Hack Android to boot straight into Strava or your own App and off you go, a license to print money.

Which is why this looks so far ahead of Garmin straight out of the blocks. Finally tempted by a new device.....

Using a phone is a beter solution entirely from a software point of view, Garmin is only ahead because most phones aren't robust enough and the screens ruin the battery and there's not enough configurable buttons.

Have you seen the Wahoo RFLKT? Basically a head unit for a phone that you leave in your pocket. Surprised it's not more popular really.

Nope, never seen that!

For balance... I had an Edge 705 for years, which was faultless, sold it to a friend and it's still going strong. Now have an Edge 1000 and that is also great, no issues whatsoever.

Bryton... Yeah. No.

This could be alright though.

[quote=njee20 ]For balance... I had an Edge 705 for years, which was faultless, [s]sold it to a friend[/s]I still use it on the road and it's still going strong.In fact, I did a battery replacement on it a couple of years ago as the original was losing charge to quickly. Cheap to buy on ebay and a doddle to fit.

Have you seen the Wahoo RFLKT? Basically a head unit for a phone that you leave in your pocket. Surprised it's not more popular really.

Just bought a garmin 520 so may be selling my wahoo rflkt+ shortly. Just saying...

I have an Egde 800, it is so simple to use and always works. I have had it for about 5 years. You must be a special kind of Muppet not to be able to work one.

🙄

I have an 800 too. Like all Garmins, it works once you have it set up and if you're good at remembering counterintuitive menus, etc. Luckily I have that kind of geeky mind. Most people don't and hence the comments. Regardless that I find it ok to use, it's still piss poor software design (not to mention often buggy).

A device with Garmin standard hardware but better software (it just needs to work similarly to most mobiles and it'd be fine) would be something I'd buy over a Garmin.

'much..you after for the rflkt Jam bo?

❗ but all you need to do is sit down for 15 mins with the manual set it up how you want it and its good to go. I know most blokes think a manual is a waste of time but it is not rocket science.

I'd argue that needing a manual is a failure of software design at least for the high level functions. I've never had to read my phone manual and it's easy to find things in the menus without it.

[i] legspin - Member
I have an Egde 800, it is so simple to use and always works. I have had it for about 5 years. You must be a special kind of Muppet not to be able to work one[/i]

Mentioning muppets, count yourself among their number, for failing to read the thread, accurately.
🙄

No, I don't buy that. I can happily operate the Edge 705 without the manual, it's not particularly good, but it tends to work. The only issue I've had with the device itself is that it has corrupted rides a few times and once corrupted the entire storage partition, which meant completely resetting the thing and needing to add the map back to it.

On the hardware side of things my point was that £300 buys you far far more hardware and software in other applications.

The other issues I've had are all related to PC connection, issues that you don't see in the wild anymore, other than on cheap chinese shite like the SD Card readers I keep trying to add to my PC. All my issues with connection have been the same, plug it in, PC beeps to say new hardware, hardware doesn't appear anywhere and allow sync/access. The first time it was that I was using a non-garmin cable. Fine, it's up to them if they want to piss about with something to force you to have to buy a cable for £20 off them if I lose this one, but what sort of shower does that? The Garmin Connect plugin for IE stopped working. Worked. Then stopped again. Fixed by switching to Chrome. Then they blocked the Chrome plugin and forced Garmin Express on us, which adds nothing that wasn't there already. That stopped working, then started again.

Back in the real world, everyone else sorted out Plug'n'Play years ago and their kit just works.

Mine worked fine with non-Garmin cables!

Wow, looks great, will be keeping an eye on this! I have a Garmin 200 & 810 which work really well, have been eyeing up the 520 but like others been put off by reports of buggy software which plague their more recent devices (plus the web apps have always been crap)

IMO a hi-res/hi-contrast B&W screen could well be better than a colour screen especially in bright sunlight.

Back in the real world, everyone else sorted out Plug'n'Play years ago and their kit just works.

You say that but usually it doesn't. When you have to target a plethora of operating systems and versions, browsers and versions, device, hardware combinations, I do have some sympathy. And that does seem to be where most people have their problems with Garmin.

Starting from scratch like wahoo and just having an app on a phone over bluetooth (ok i know android devices can be problematic but nowhere as bad) and integrating with some well established 3rd party apps will make life an awful lot simpler for them.

I'm using RFKLT. It's so easy to use and works seemlessly with Strava. It does, however, use up loads of iPhone battery and I had to buy a battery pack for £20 to double the battery life. It seems crazy to carry an iPhone with all that functionality and double it up with a garmin. The RFKLT head unit keeps it all nice and clean.

Garmin's ability to occasionally forget to give me directions when using turn-by-turn has naff all to do with the way I'm using it.

Nah, you're a muppet and it's bound to be your fault.

Ive been using a garmin touring for navigation which is sound but i tend to run strava on my phone which is so much easier and i dont need to turn on my computer to sync it. But it seems mad to be running both things at once tbh.

Don't need to turn my computer on to sync an Edge 1000 either, my commute in was on Strava before I was at my desk 🙂

Nor do you a 520/810 if you do the whole Bluetooth connection thing.

When it works 😉

( I know - plenty have no problem but many seem to really struggle with it)

The wifi on the 1000 is faultless. Bluetooth I just don't bother!

nemesis - Member
Nah, you're a muppet and it's bound to be your fault.

guts 🙁

I'd rather pay the difference for a 520 to have a far superior screen and smaller size.

That thing looks like they took 5 years to develop it when the Edge 500 was king.

At least someone is trying.

you do realise that this has full mapping and navigation functions unlike the 520?

I'd also question "far superior screen" until you've seen it in the flesh. Colour is not the most important thing; far from it. From the shots on DCR the Wahoo looks like it should have superior contrast, and the mapping looks a lot clearer than Garmin's.

Obviously the contrast is good, its a black and white screen. Not even greys for gradients/areas/info etc.. which will make maps hard work

Nokia called, they want their 3210 screen back.

I think the clarity is the best thing about it. Easy to see. No clutter. The exact opposite of "making maps hard work"; certainly for road use, which seems to be its intended purpose.

FWIW I'm a big fan of MIO - I had a 315 and upgraded to a 505 to get power meter compatibility. Great mapping, good data field adjustability, does turn by turn etc out of the box without needing to buy more maps and the MIO support has been excellent. They seem to be constantly tweaking the firmware too as there are frequent updates which keep adding more functionality to the units.

Just saying...!

Think I touched a nerve 😀

You can touch my nerve if you want?

Garmin's ability to occasionally forget to give me directions when using turn-by-turn has naff all to do with the way I'm using it.

No, but it's probably entirely down to the mapping information, and unlikely to be any better on other units, particularly if you're already using the same OSM data as this unit uses. The problem is if the map has the wrong information about which route is the "main road" and which is turning.

I hope this new unit shakes up the market a bit. The Garmin hardware and software on the unit is OK, but all their desktop / online software is just incredibly flakey and seems to have got worse, not better, over the years.

As a company, they seem unresponsive to user feedback, and I was pretty disappointed that they offered no goodwill or discount on replacing the plastic mounts on my old Edge 305 which suffered from a seemingly common breakage, with the replacement mounts only coming in a kit at some extortionate retail price.

Never had any real problems with the garmin units. And that doesn't look like something that would tempt me away from them in future. Had a 705 when they first came out and now have an 810.

I never use the turn by turn directions, I just prefer to display my route on the map. Tried turn bu turn when I fist started using a garmin, but don't think it works at all, I don't see a way of making it work suitably for cycling, especially mountain biking i just don't think it is a technology that crosses over from car sat nav.

I also don't find the menus intuitive, I think they could make it a lot better if you could do all the set-up on a computer and just send it down to the unit.

I think the map looks pretty good in terms of actually seeing where you're going! I use an eTrex and follow the route on the map, and often my tired old eyes struggle to distinguish my route from other roads and map clutter.

Never had any real problems with the garmin units … Tried turn bu turn when I fist started using a garmin, but don't think it works at all … I also don't find the menus intuitive, I think they could make it a lot better

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one 🙂

I think the full sentences explain my position pretty clearly, sorry if they were too long for you. I haven't had any problems with garmins, but it doesn't mean I don't see room for improvement.

Smileys may imply facetiousness 🙂