An interesting experience on our Wiltshire ride today.
Group of 8 of us had stopped on bridleway for a chat. Along comes farmer in his 4 x 4. Gets out of vehicle and asks "which way are you going?". As I was the only person that knew where we were I replied "along this bridleway", to which he asked "and then where?". I then replied "turn left onto another bridleway".
He was definitely not asking us if we were lost! I was polite at all times and was absolutely determined not to give him the opportunity to moan about mountain bikers.
Of course I could have refused to answer his questions but just feel I am on permanent PR duties these days.
Weird or what?
which way was he going?
i would have told him to keep is nose out of my business..........politly tho. 😀
Doesn't seem that unreasonable.
bassspine - he was working!
ton - I feel very strongly that people get the wrong impression of mountain bikers. That was partly why I organised a Chilterns ride a few months ago cos of the grief I always used to get there, even when riding on my own.
I'm sure I will get shouted down but honestly believe that women can diffuse these situations. Often with men it's like a red rag to a bull 🙄
Get orf moi laaarnd.
It's the public perception of mountain bikers that needs addressing. Am sick of the small-minded attitude - we are a cross-section of society not a bunch of rad dudes!
That was my response bassspine. Sadly, didn't think of it until after he left 🙁 I guess the other approach would be to just list the whole ride, just to make a point.
It was odd, wasn't it cg. Where exactly was it? I can see that some of the farms round there have footpaths through them, maybe he's from one of them? He wasn't rude or unfriendly, perhaps he was genuinely curious and doesn't see many cyclists round there.
Where was this?
we are a cross-section of society not a bunch of rad dudes!
I take offence to that. I'm rad to the max 😯
Perhaps he was trying to make conversation. What's the imputation? That he was being noisey/rude/overly defensive in a "get off/don't enter my land type manner?
Chill. Perhaps he's hacked off with MTB's (not you but others) riding across his property and over reacting.
Don't get me wrong I've done a few cheeky routes in my time but my girlfriennds parents own a farm and I've witnessed untold front by people that think they can do as they please on other peoples land.
All the best.
cinnamon_girl
i think you are probably right, but i do not break any laws when i go out riding.
i am downright stubborn in my belief that we should not ride on footpaths or break any of the countryside code, so what right has someone to snoop in our business, when we are out doing our chosen pastime.. ❓
Rich - I suspect that the landowners in the general vicinity actually own huge areas of land. Interestingly enough, someone later made a point that farms are suffering from robbery, ie expensive machinery being stolen. Perhaps that was his worry? We were definitely on a bridleway though.
DavidB - near Tidcombe.
You have to ask yourself why landowners sometimes have a bad attitude. I've seen walkers, bikers & horse riders absolutely ruin crops (and grass is a valuable crop) by strayihg from paths & bridleways because they think they 'have the right' and gates have been left open leaving stock to stray, pregnant ewes are scattered with some aborting etc etc. Farmers are having a real rough time of it at the moment and any financial loss is a serious issue to them. Now I'm not saying you did this, I'm often on 'cheeky' trails myself, but there are an awful lot of numptys out there that ruin it for the rest of us. To react badly to honest questions will not help our cause, it will only alienate us. Farming can also be an intensely lonely occupation with some farmers not seeing anyone else for whole days at a time, thats why they will often like to stop and chat.
What a group of lycra clad robbers on mountain bikes gonna do one with one of his cultivator's. LOL. Perhaps even as a farmer he might be somewhat smarter than that.
Rich - you were definitely rad with that hub 😉
deluded - no, it was definitely not a friendly manner. Have never had a problem in Wiltshire before so was very surprised. If you're riding in a working landscape, you must be respectful that people earn a living from the land, ie move out of the way for tractors, not frighten livestock etc.
jj55 - yes, I agree that walkers and horse riders can be irresponsible but would say that this was definitely not a heavily used bridleway.
I never meet farmers that want a chat - they normally have prairie size fields to look after and simply don't have time. Shooting parties are always pleasant but then I'm not PC and don't have a problem with huntin' and shootin'.
So long as they don't shoot me, farmers should remain grumpy and backward. That way I know all is well in the universe.
Just ask them straight "is there a problem ?"
Then ignore the reply 😉
i had some farmer on a quad tell me to get off his land , bridleway by the way. i told him i would move on when my mate had finished fixing his bike off he went but came back two mins later telling us to go he then got off his quad removed a bat from it and came over saying i told you to go
i informed him that if he didnt fork off id shove the bat up his rear after clipping his ear with it (or words to that effect) he replied with "what did you say?" i said you heard me or you wouldnt have questioned it . with a smile of course. he then left us alone . ****er lol
You have to ask yourself why landowners sometimes have a bad attitude
I have. I think it's often about not liking people on "their" land, despite it being a right of way. I guess they may only remember the idiots who do cause problems, but to preemptively judge others is not sensible and needs to be challenged, not excused.
RichPenny - why would you want to spend any time at all to challenge people when out on a ride? Is that not why you are out on a ride in the first place, to get away from all that stress.
In my experince the majority of farmers know the difference between what is their land and a right of way. Unfortunately people without the time or inclination to separate the two are the ones that ride rough-shod.
Farmers are the custodians of the countryside, through which we all ride and enjoy.
mick - that is shocking. I hope you reported it to the Rights of Way Officer?
deluded - it's not a case of challenging people, more like having a constructive chat. Have you ever spoken to horse riders? Do you know how some perceive us? It's interesting to hear viewpoints from other countryside users and we can all learn.
Interestingly, I was talking to a horse rider and she had a real problem with roadies cos they whizzed past too close and too fast beside her horse!
I've a problem with horse riders, specifically the way they churn up the trails. But I guess they don't appreciate that!
What? I'm not the one suggesting that people are challenged - the opposite in fact. Did you read my posts? Your comments are better aimed at your mate RP.
Horses were around before bikes 8)
[i]I ... feel I am on permanent PR duties ... I feel very strongly that people get the wrong impression of mountain bikers[/i]
They're probably just generalising, assuming all mountain bikers are like a few bad eggs they've met.
Considering your thread title, it's perhaps advisable in terms of your PR duties not to do the same with farmers.
Boot, foot, other. Just a thought, like.
Bez.
Good point well made.
no i didnt bother cg but ive seen him since out on my rides and given him a big smile he just ignores me now
[i]I'm sure I will get shouted down but honestly believe that women can diffuse these situations. Often with men it's like a red rag to a bull[/i]
Oh I dunno......if I'd have realised what he was REALLY asking I would have gone off on one and used my favourite swear word of yesterday too! 😆
Sorry deluded, perhaps my post wasn't too clear. It's not like I'm flagging down landrovers 🙂 All I meant was that you need to challenge their point of view nicely, because it isn't acceptable to challenge a group of bikers about their intentions when they're on a legal path. From what I remember, there was no preamble, just "where are you going" , then "and then where". Incidentally, do you think he'd stop a group of walkers? Nope, because he doesn't think they're out to trash his land. CG is talking about changing that attitude by engaging with people, not shouting at them.
If I'm on an illegal trail (and it'd be a footpath or a logging track, not across crops or through livestock!) and I was stopped by a farmer, I'd be pretty sheepish. Only happened once, he was perfectly pleasant and we rerouted (and learnt something).
One farmer may encouter may different types of people riding mountian bikes around his land.
Just because you lot may be a good bunch, theres no way he can tell that you're not lycra-louts, riding where you shouldn't dropping litter anywhere you like and just generally disrespecting the countryside, etc.
Or on the other hand, perhaps you are people who are just looking around the place, with perhaps the intent of returning after dark and trying to help yourself to fuel or equipment. In these times of recession, country-side crime has increased alot.
The farmer simply can't tell what your intentions are.
I wouldn't have any problem answering simple questions about where I've been and where I'm going, so long as the person asking the questions exercised a polite tone, etc.
But I must stress that regardless of their personal prejudice, I believe Farmers should still speak politely when they approach anyone on a bridle way through their land, etc.
But it isn't just about good MTBers and bad MTBers.
Theres another side to this. I've encountered "country-folk" who think that the countryside belongs personally to them and they aint up for sharing.
Thats a sad attitude imo, but one I feel I have to put up with and ignore. If I'm exercising a legitimate right of way, then theres little they can really say, and most know that, regardless of any comments made at the time.
I'm sorry to learn of yet another negative interaction between farmers and MTBers, but with such a wide range of characters involved, will it ever improve. As I pointed out, you may be a good bunch, but we all know there are bike riders who don't seem to treat the countryside with the same appreciation and respect as others. And some farmers can be very grumpy indeed.
CC.
my ex in-laws farm very near where the chiltern stw ride was , and i was worried about the route we rode a few months ago,, it was good and legal but the attitude of some riders on that ride with a group of walkers was totaly wrong,, no wonder we get labeled as a bad bunch,,
my inlaws do know just what all the rights of way are on the farm and all paths a clealy labeled and kept mown so the "lost walkers have no excuse as to why they are on the wrong path,, we used to have problems with hare cursers and thefts so they have a right to be cautiouse ,,,,
well done CG keep up the good PR our area is a difficult and busy one and it only takes a few idiots ( you know who you are) to ruin it for everyone ,,,, ps preston singlespeed is now an 8 speed alfine powered ,,
I work on a few farmers land they moan about anything and everything even when they are getting something for nothing.
Just a thought but the whole farmers labelling all mtbers bad from just a few....well isn't that exactly what seems to be happening here but about farmers?
Just a thought but maybe he wanted to move some cattle or some farm equipment down that lane later so wanted to know where you were going as not to trample you !!!
Just imagine the response he'd have gotten if he had dared to say good morning! The audacity of land owners eh?
CG: Well done for being polite etc. I too think we're obliged to show the world that most bikers are simply out to take in our wonderful countryside but on 2 wheels instead of foot or hoof.
My riding is on my doorstep. i don't want to 'loose' it so make sure I'm polite and as Ton said up there^^^ I ride totally legal.
Then I know I'm right, and polish my halo after cleaning my bike!!
My friendly farmer ( there are some!) has often muttered to me about walkers. He has sometimes found them walking though his farm because they had just walked through the fields and got lost. No footpath anywhere, no right of way, just a farm and some fields. They also thought it perfectly fine to go simply anywhere they liked - a bit like someone walking around your back garden. No wonder some farmers are @rsey!
cheers
Q
Do unto others I reckon - if hes being curt & unfriendly just be vague & indeterminate. Something like "oh down this way for a bit & then maybe on a bit more.." I resent some nosey so & so coming up to me questioning what Im up to!
I see no problem with farmers showing an interest in who uses their land - bridleway or not. I think most farmers will have no problem with any land user who shows respect - leaves gates as they find them, doesn't leave damage or litter, doesn't scare animals, etc, etc.
Its horse riders who think they rightfully own the country side, especially ones with comments like "its awfully muddy here isn't it?'. (After they and their fellow cronies have plough the trails to oblivion with repeated riding in after wet weather).
Many schools, especially rural ones I believe, ensure primary school aged children receive some form of cycling proficiency training. Maybe horse riders should have to go some form of intelligence test before being let loose on their own?
Farmers and "land managers" in general are just as diverse as a group of mountain bikers, and just as you might get an unreasonable biker you will get unreasonable farmers/managers.
I've worked on both sides of the fence (so to speak) and have suffered abuse, and witnessed stupidity from all corners! From ramblers insisting that they must be able to walk through a busy farm yard 24/7 and not willing to support an alternative "by-pass" which was generally nicer, and more interesting; through to a farmer who would barb wire every stile and block every path.
Nowt so queer as folk.
Forunately the majority of people are reasonable, friendly and open; and those that aren't are generally disarmed easily and quickly if you are pleasant and not confrontational.
In my opinion and experience - ramblers are far more militant and difficult than bikers.
They aren't all bad. A couple of years ago my other half's nephew and some other teenagers approached a farmer in Angus and asked if they could build some jumps in woods on his land. He not only said "yes" but provided them with a load of tools to do the job. Top bloke.
Perhaps you should have queried his right to drive a 4x4 on a bridleway. After all it might not have been his land and he may not have a had a right to drive there, take his number and let him know that you are supporting the farmer's right to keep the use of the bridleway across his land to legitimate users.
How could he complain if you were trying to protect his rights 🙂
Sometimes being polite isn't enough.
The driver of the Jag that went 'off-roading' in my front garden at 11PM last night was 'polite' enough, but that didn't stop me being more than slightly vexed that he had driven through the hedge and knocked a plum tree down.
But it's difficult to stay properly indignant for very long when you're just wearing a dressing gown and wellies.
Although there are rights of way across the countryside, a lot of them are little used, so if someone is seen crossing the land on it sometimes we or our tenants will chat to them, partly because it's a break from work or maybe because we're just suspicious as we just don't see anyone there.
'Just looking for a dog mate' is the lightbulb moment, time to lock up, hide and disable machinery and hope we get away with no more than broken windows
Other joyous tasks are cleaning up of fly tip, impromptu campsites with [u]everything [/u]left behind, savaged stock, burnt timber stacks, smashed up gateways, makeshift banger tracks, crop circle wannabes and on and on
So there are a few bad eggs out there who make those of us with a vested interest and tie to the land a bit suspicious of people, bad experience travels and good things are kept quiet
Good grief folks,all that hassle when you live in counties south of the border.I think I'd give up and go and live in the Highlands - Oh hang on I do already.Ach well,that means I have the whole place to myself,miles of empty trails AND, all our farming folk are smiley happy people up here as well.
who cares?
Steve peat is world champion!!!!!
Nah seriously.
These things are going to happen on singletrack rides...
Just accept it and man up?
As RichPenny said if your on slighty dubious grounds just be very humble
If your on legit tracks ,,,,just dont worry.
worry more about how long you can get the next manual going 🙂
x
Myself and a friend got stopped by a farmer when out on a ride, he asked where we were going, I said 'up here, and left onto the Greensand way (bridleway).
He said... 'that may be a footpath, it may be a bridlepath, but it's certainly not a mountain bike path'. It took rather a lot of persuasion that cyclists were indeed allowed on bridleways, he was quite pleasant about the whole thing, but he seemed convinced we were not supposed to be there!
I didn't think he was rude, just a bit concerned with having us lot on his land. Once he realised we were half sensible and knew what we were on about he cleared off. I personally didn't take offence to him asking, and it's not like he swore at us or warned us about anything.
His mate looked a bit young to be driving that other 4x4 didn't he.
your trying to pick holes in their business
"His mate looked a bit young to be driving that other 4x4 didn't he."
how do you know?
He looked about 13, lucky git driving around the country side at that age. Mind you, with all that fresh air he might have just been a healthy looking 25.
so your not quite sure how old he was?
and your saying hes a lucky git
and?
try to think outside your chosen pastime.
x
Good luck to them i say, i wasn't criticising the farmer or what looked like his son. I grew up just down the road from there and was mates with loads of farmers kids. It was just a casual observation that he looked a bit young. I'd rather see a teenager (if thats what he was) helping his old man on the farm than staring at a tv or hanging around a shopping centre.
Everyone - thanks very much for your comments/thoughts. It has definitely made interesting reading. I must apologise though for the Daily Mail stylee thread title ... but knew that it would guarantee a response from the lovely STW readership 😉
A couple of points though ...
ade ward - not sure whether I may have misinterpreted your post but on the Chilterns ride, I was not aware of any problem with walkers. Mind you, I was at the back! I know I was really disappointed to find walkers walking up the Warnscombe Lane descent but the walkers all seemed cheery enough.
We were definitely on a legal bridleway, if we weren't I would have done my "bimbo can't map read" routine 😯
My PR duties will continue as normal 🙂
Can someone please explain me the problem as I can't see anything wrong with the guy asking where you were going.
hey cinnamon girl! you need to ride Les Arcs! France
No hassle , no forums.
🙂
Drac - we were on a legal bridleway and were asked where we were going. I explained that we were continuing on the bridleway. He then asked "where next?" so I told him. But it was not done in a friendly manner, no "good morning", no smile, he just looked grumpy. Then got back in his 4 x 4.
He may well have intended to be intimidating. It's not a popular area for mountain biking, more a quiet backwater although a very pretty one.
I know, I just need to get back to the Cheviots 😉
Drac, do you get people approaching you, and without saying anything else at all, asking you two questions about your intentions, then buggering off again? And if you do, would you really not find that slightly rude?
To the other bloke, if he'd have said good morning, clearly we'd have said good morning back and had a normal conversation, maybe even convinced him that bikers are not all evil.
Chris, get off the stella lol.
The reply to be used should have been,"We're going about our lawful business on a public right of way". Smacks a bit of "Papieren bitte" he has no more right to knowledge of your actions as you have to his.
Chris, get off the stella lol.
yer but steve peat just got in!!!!!!
xxxxx
[i]Drac, do you get people approaching you, and without saying anything else at all, asking you two questions about your intentions, then buggering off again?[/i]
Have done.
[i]And if you do, would you really not find that slightly rude? [/i]
Maybe but wouldn't think it was because they hated MTBers.
think you lot are all taking it too seriously!
[b]dont be professional victims[/b]
x
I can understand his attitude especially when you have people like Knottie riding because his off road antics on the Q's did cause a complaint to the police for dangerous riding from ramblers
Dam hooligan 😉
Where in wilts was that i have had similar experiences in Wilts over the years 🙂
leeson - got any more Youtube videos on trials-type stuff? Enjoyed that last one 🙂
saladdodger - I agree, knottie is definitely a hooligan 😆
theking - on the Wiltshire/Hampshire border, near Tidcombe.
As a farmer - and a biker myself, i can clearly see both sides of this encounter, which seems to me to have been handled well by both the farmer and cg.
All he was doing was making sure the group knew where they were going and weren't planning on heading off the track and onto private land.
I have a number of private tracks accross my land and often stop bikers/walkers/runners to politely make them aware that they are not meant to be there. Mostly they apologise and i'm more than happy to let them continue and enjoy the countryside. Sadly there are the few who believe they've every right to argue/abuse me/tresspass/litter/cause damage. They are the ones who spoil it for others and make us farmers all the more grumpy!
Who knows, maybe i'm not the only mtbing farmer and he was just looking for an excuse to check out your bikes!
leeson - got any more Youtube videos on trials-type stuff? Enjoyed that last one
Well, inbetween trying to snort Viakal and watch the tour of Spain I found this.
enjoy!
oh and the flowers loved it..
Farmers and "land managers" in general are just as diverse as a group of mountain bikers, and just as you might get an unreasonable biker you will get unreasonable farmers/managers.
Fair enough, both are diverse, but the majority of farmers are moronic polluting parasites. Wherease the majority of MTBers are normal people riding bikes 🙄
All this made me think of the last time I had any friendly conversation with a farmer. None of this 'where do you think you're going' stuff.
That was also in Wiltshire - Middle Chase Farm near Sixpenny Handley.
Sadly it was back in 1999. Since then from Devon to the Cairngorms, I've just been met with a load of disapproving looks.
but the majority of farmers are moronic polluting parasites
It is comments like this that makes me realise that apart from (presumably) owning and riding a bicycle I have precious little in common with some people on this forum.
I thought it was a troll so I didn't bother replying.
[i]but the majority of farmers are moronic polluting parasites[/i]
That statement would be thoroughly reasonable were it further generalised to "people" rather than "farmers".
There's cocks on bikes, there's cocks in tractors - they're everywhere, you know.