extreme darkside - ...
 

[Closed] extreme darkside - anyone gone onto a TT bike from roadie...

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......... and what sort of difference did it make

not for me I hasten to add, but swmbo is getting pretty decent at triathlon

I read an article that said a rider who could do a 1 hour 40k would save about 5 mins going from standard road bike to tt bike with aero wheels, pointy hat and body suit jobbie (or use less watts at same speed)

of the 5 mins about half could be gained with tri bars on road bike, then incremental for helmet / wheels / tt bike

guess she would ride about 1'06 / 1'08 so affect will be less as less aerodynamic benefit at slower speeds

I'm thinking about £1k + per minute which doesn't seem too good an investment!

any experiences?

yes - drag me outdoors and shoot me


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 3:00 pm
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I've read in several places that after tri bars, a **** hat (aka aero helmet) offers the best watts per £ saving out of anything you can buy.

A disc cover for the rear wheel is another relatively cheap and effective way of getting some "free" speed.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 3:02 pm
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Triathlon is, for sure, the true definition of "darkside" in cycling.

Oh, and yes, it will make a difference. Whether the cost vs the time is worth it, only your budget and your wife's ability can tell.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 3:07 pm
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Tri bars make the biggest difference and cost little.

Next perhaps aero wheels or a disc for the back?

I'd estimate that's 75% for a few hundred tops.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 3:33 pm
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id say tri bars and a helmet before a disk wheel ....

my TT bike took about 30 seconds off my 10 TT time - was it worth it - for me yes as 30 seconds was enough to get into the top 5 of times instead of top 10 ...was it the TT bike though that got me there or the lighter bike ? - my previous bike was a 500 quid road bike that weighed about 25lbs ! my TT bike was in the region of 18/19 and aero


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 3:39 pm
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trail rat - think you've saved me a few bob! Guess if you were / are in top 5 you are a fair bit quicker than her, plus she is on a nice road bike already (with tri bars).

she's in euro age group champs this year, but won't win so a few secs is neither here nor there I suspect


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 4:03 pm
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The difference between a Tri bike and a TT bike (it was told to me by a Tri specialist) is that a TT bike will get you a faster time, a Tri bike (because of its odd angles) will get you to the line fast, but still able to run properly.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 4:08 pm
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I'm about to invest in bars and helmet for my (aero - small front profile, aero wheels) road bike. anything more than that would be wasting my money IMO...


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 4:37 pm
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Sort your body position out first, so you can maintain it for the majority of the race.

Tri bars and end of bar shifters are the way to go.

The expensive stuff will shave a few seconds, getting fitter will shave minutes.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 5:01 pm
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is that a TT bike will get you a faster time, a Tri bike (because of its odd angles) will get you to the line fast

Manufacturers generally don't make different models for TT and triathlon - for example, the Trek Speed Concept and Specialized Shiv are ridden by both their sponsored triathletes and road riders.

Also the Cervelo Test Team rode P4s in time trials last year, which are pretty much the holy grail of tri bikes.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 5:05 pm
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Also the Cervelo Test Team rode P4s in time trials last year, which are pretty much the holy grail

And for TTs - mate of mine rode one to a 19.45 for 10, and 50.15 for a 25.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 5:13 pm
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Charliemort, be careful to read the rules on tri bars, particularly if your partner is competing at Euro or World levels, my wife does the same in Duathlon. The rules say that for elite riders where the bike section can be a close quarters road race, nothing can extend beyond the brake levers so they have short stubby tri bars. AFAIK this rule doesn't currently apply to age group but this could have changed. There is no point in training in a sleek aero position then having to change everything on race day, you also need to have a PHD in drafting to be sure you won't get done for this as well. The rules for Euro and World champs races make the Mastricht Treaty look like Jackanory, they banned compression socks on the eve of last years euro champs which caused much consternation.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 5:18 pm
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Normal TT bars will be fine for a euro age group as there's no drafting.

My wife was there in Athlone last year and should be in spain again this year. Guess I'll be bag holding again 🙁

I built her a bargain bin TT bike (before compo prices went mad) it certainly feels faster than a road bike but can't quanitfy it other than on a paired 10m time trial last year I had difficulty keeping up with her (which isn't normally a problem).


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 5:47 pm
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there was a feature about this on bikeradar last year when they did some test - aerobars on a normal road bike as opposed to riding on the drops saves circa 30 watts at 40km/h. A time trial helmet will save about 10 watts

A tt bike saves about 20 watts over a road bike with aerobars.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 6:34 pm
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Omar Little - yup, think that's the article I saw


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 10:01 pm
 hels
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The whole point of tri-bars is improving position e.g getting lower, which isn't always aided by tri-bars. You need to lower the handlebars too, esp if she is short person. I have seen folk slap a set of tri-bars on their road bike to end up propped up higher and catching even more wind. Not to mention having even dodgier handling abilities but thats another thread.


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 10:08 pm
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The difference between a Tri bike and a TT bike (it was told to me by a Tri specialist) is that a TT bike will get you a faster time, a Tri bike (because of its odd angles) will get you to the line fast, but still able to run properly

There's an awful lot of BS spouted by "tri specialists". An lot of triathletes also have awful positions on the bike - they might be on tri-bars, but somebody with a good position on a normal road bike would be more aero. You can spend the money to save a bit of time, but you'll be wasting it if you don't get the basics sorted first - tri bars and a good position on the bike.

The main point of a tri/TT specific bike is actually to get into a proper position, not for the bike itself to be aero. It is possible to get a good TT position on a normal bike, but it will involve using specialist components and won't end up handling as well as a proper TT bike as the weight distribution will be wrong, but provided she's not on technical courses it's a cheap way to get more speed.

Save your pennies and don't bother with the expensive stuff until you've got the basics sorted (and maybe not even then if budget is limited and she's not chasing podiums).


 
Posted : 16/02/2011 10:33 pm
 kcr
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Plenty of good advice above. As suggested, you can make all the big gains without spending lots of money. Unfortunately, many people do it the wrong way around - jump straight into buying v. expensive aero gear which is wasted because they have not sorted out the basics.

The greatest component of drag, by a long way, is the rider. An aero bladed frame will give you marginal returns, but get your position right and you will make huge gains. In general terms you are trying to reduce your frontal area, so lower and more stretched out is usually better. At some point, however, going lower may compromise your power output or become uncomfortable, so you will probably have to experiment to find the sweet spot.

A TT specific frame generally has steeper frame angles. The theory behind this is that it gets you further over the bottom bracket and opens your hip angle, improving your power output:
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/feature/article/technique-why-hip-angle-is-crucial-when-using-tri-bars-28947/ ]Hip angle article[/url]
You don't need an expensive frame for this, just one that is the right size.

Once you've sorted the rider out, worry about the gear. Tri-bars are a given, as part of getting your positioning correct. After that, the consensus seems to be that an aero helmet will give the greatest gains, with marginal returns for everything else.

There's some good reading here:
[url= http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/bike-and-gear-features/revenge-nerds ]MIT wind tunnel testing[/url]
Interesting suggestion that not wearing gloves could gain you as much as those expensive aero wheels!

So I would suggest saving your pennies intially and get everything dialled in by experimenting with basic kit. Once your partner is happy with her set up and starts to see the results, she will be in a good position to buy more exotic gear to gain the final seconds.

p.s. all the techy stuff assumes that the training, bike handling and pacing strategy have already been optimised, of course...!


 
Posted : 17/02/2011 12:32 am
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Bike frames, it's the angles that matter: old school TT frames (can) have the right angles and can be picked up quite cheaply as everyone wants aero tubes

TT bars are essential, bullhorns are good but not essential

aero helmet again good gains

aero wheels are good (but expensive), tyres should be the first upgrade

but as stated above the key is frontal area, work on flexibility and bike setup. She also needs to train on the bike and in position to get teh real gains

triathletes tend to be equipment whores and spend inordinate amounts of money on their bikes etc

the best advice to make the biggest gains is [b]get a coach[/b] a good coach will get you far more time for the £ invested


 
Posted : 17/02/2011 12:53 am
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An lot of triathletes also have awful positions on the bike - they might be on tri-bars, but somebody with a good position on a normal road bike would be more aero. You can spend the money to save a bit of time, but you'll be wasting it if you don't get the basics sorted first - tri bars and a good position on the bike.

and have you seen the way they pedal? always overgeared they [s]stomp[/s] pedal in squares not circles.
i was watching a bit of the london tri at my folks and explaining to my mum that triathletes can't ride in a group just as a bunch of about 10 riders was being shown negociating a corner, Bang! over they go. i had a little chuckle


 
Posted : 17/02/2011 1:18 am
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Having done a few Tri's and read around rather a lot if you're after time savings per £ then I'd look first at getting a coach

She'd make improvements to technique in all 3 events and the key to a faster time is improving technique and efficiency together with improving fitness/stamina etc

A good coach should help with bike positioning and set a training schedule that will result in way more improvements than spending a couple of grand on a TT bike will.
I don't think it's that expensive to get a session in a wind tunnel where they measure your power output in a range of positions to find out what works for the individual - there's no one single right position that works for everyone.

It is a rather addictive thing to get into and little surprise it's one of the fastest growing sports.


 
Posted : 17/02/2011 10:43 am
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TT bars and decent race tyres (if you havent already got them) are enough to get you beyond evens (or should be) - as long as you use the bars to work on a good position.

TT bars also really help you breathe and sustain a high heartrate/power output as much as the aerodynamic effect. You can get a good position on the drops, but it is much harder work to maintain - to me anyway.

My next thing will be bar end shifters, I dont think there is much time in it, but it is a real pain having to move hand to change gear if you have settled into a good position, and it doesnt help with the concentration.

The other thing that 'helps' is proper nasty intervals once a week eg 3 x 20 minutes at threshold. Costs nothing - except pain and sufferring.


 
Posted : 17/02/2011 10:52 am