[Closed] Exercise is a form of status? Discuss

paywalled

EDIT - unless you answer the stupid survey

Although I exercise frequently, I don't have sufficient standing to have a FT subscription.

what if you are a fat beer guzzling cyclist, who exercises daily?

I think it also depend on the type of exercise. going down the gym will be considered differentyl to someoen who goes climbing.

It a complex area... I'm not paying to read the link but I'd guess it probably doesn't get to grips with the full complexity of it.

Since the Renaissance western societies have generally adopted the Greek ideal of the male body as the aspiration, but that plays out very differently in different areas of modern society. There's a subtle difference between the desire to look fit and the desire to be fit. Lads on an estate with T-shirts off and stuffed into the waistband of their tracky bottoms to show off there 6-packs is different to the middle aged lawyer spending on kit and training to improve their tri times... but the root of the issue is very similar.

As in ancient Greece and many other societies through time, the ability to devote time (and/or money) to being/looking fit is a measure of status. In ancient greece you didn't go to a gym if you were an agricultural worker, although the irony is you probably had a "good looking" body anyway through physical work. In modern society socioeconomic boundaries are less clear cut, so the use of fitness/looking fit to signify status is trickier to carry off.

I'd go so far as to say that fitness now only works as a status signify [i]amongst[/i] social groups, rather than distinguishing [i]between[/i] social groups. In modern society access to leisure time and exercise is much more universal than it was in the past - it is much less dependent on income and status. So the use of your time/money on it is only a relative indicator.

That said, obviously some social groups will place a higher emphasis on it than others, although one thing I've noticed in British society is it is very inclusive of the fat and unfit at all levels. In some ways this strengthens the argument that it's a relative indicator - there's no point spending all that time and effort being/looking fit if everyone in your social group does the same. It's only valuable if you are differentiating yourself from someone worth differentiating yourself from - ie a social equal.

Quite.

Hmm, this is more complicated than I thought.

Depends which end of the argument your coming from really, I'm fit as I enjoy running and cycling, and the fitter I am the more I enjoy those things, that fact that I'm slim is a happy by-product of those things.

Since the Renaissance western societies have generally adopted the Greek ideal of the male body as the aspiration

I think modern aspiration has more to do with the power of advertising than the ability of Grecian stonemasonry

Something like what he said.

Although I'd probably put it in among other 'leisure' activities like being well read and going to museums (aka a culture vulture), any activity outside work that indicates you have more money or spare time is a status symbol.

I think modern aspiration has more to do with the power of advertising than the ability of Grecian stonemasonry

I think modern aspiration has more to do with the power of advertising than the ability of Grecian stonemasonry

David Beckham is the ancient Greek ideal of the male body. People don't see the "greek" bit, but the ideal is now simply part of western culture.

I used to work beside a gym and all the big guys I would see, people who you would apply the term "bodybuilder", all drove flash or big (or big and flash) cars. Hummvees, Porsche Cayennes, lifted Landrovers, Camaros etc.

Not sure how that's relevant but it always struck me as strange.

Although I'd probably put it in among other 'leisure' activities like being well read and going to museums (aka a culture vulture), any activity outside work that indicates you have more money or spare time is a status symbol.

Yeah - this too!

Ask the King of Tonga. Social status there is expressed by being as fat as you possibly can, and having as many of the fattest wives you can afford.

I was just about to say the same thing jonathan, damn you beat me to it.

Desmond Morris made a point in [i]The Naked Ape[/i] about pursuit of knowledge replacing religion in modern society, I won't do his analogy any justice here but obviously studying/reading replaced prayer as a form of observance, schools/libraries/universities as churches etc etc*

He also suggested that society needs *some* form of greater power/deity/concept to aspire to, as we have evolved to need some form of 'alpha monkey' in our tribes.

Perhaps exercise is another form of observance, with 'being fit' seen as the ultimate goal.

This all made sense to me when I read the book... 😳

[/waffle]

*like I said, gross simplification, read the book 8)

from my limited knowledge, I recall being told that in Victorian times a big gut was a sign of wealth, something to aspire to as it showed you had the money to eat and drink and weren't a labourer in a field. Slowly as more oiks saw paintings and sculptures of from the Greek world and Neo Classics took a hold people slowly moved to try and look more like these 'idols'.

I agree that saying and doing a sport is often said/done to show some sort of life you prescribe to, that of trying to be fit and healthy. It is often said as a status comment.

[i]as we have evolved to need some form of 'alpha monkey' in our tribes.[/i]

careful now, certainly the Pan Troglodytes has Alpha Males, the Pan Gracile on the other hand has a collective of Alpha females, and those are our closet living relative species.

I've seen no evidence of what any of the Homo species have evolved to accept as dominant.

[i]People don't see the "greek" bit, but the ideal is now simply part of western culture.[/i]

Oh yes, agree. but it's more versace... 😆

careful now, certainly the Pan Troglodytes has Alpha Males, the Pan Gracile on the other hand has a collective of Alpha females, and those are our closet living relative species.

I think my/Mr Morris's point is that we've evolved to have an alpha, whatever it/they/he/she may be, and religion/pursuit of knowledge/'exercise' could be a replacement alpha 'concept' which gives you direction and guidance in your life.

This is the sort of conversation I usually save for several pints in, just before everybody curiously decides to leave the pub without me... 😕

From another angle on the status thing.
Do you ever think that some people feel threatened by a higher level of fitness ,as it possibly highlights their own inadequacy.
Often hear sedentary people at work describing others that exercise as fitness fanatics .
I wonder if some drivers have a go because they feel cyclists are flaunting their fitness. 😉

13thmonk, I think Des is probably talking out of his 'arris, but there you go. what were we talking about again? 😆

[i]Often hear sedentary people at work describing others that exercise as fitness fanatics .[/i]

Or that other chesnut..

"Oh, you're so lucky to be so thin..."

😕

fasthaggis - yes.

Doing exercise to a high level is a significant achievement. Doing other people down for achieving what you would like to achieve but lack the motivation or skill to do so has always been popular.

As far as the differentiation thing goes - that's always been the case too.

In times of malnutrition, being voluptuous, chubby or fat has been fashionable.

When most people are working in the fields, having pale skin is a status symbol.

When most people are working in factories, having a sun-tan is a sign that you have the resources to travel abroad and loll about

When cheap holidays in the sun and sunbed tans are easily affordable, and the health risks of sun exposure become more common knowledge, having a tan isn't so attractive.

And doing manual work and having a Men's Health body don't quite go hand-in-hand. What kind of image comes to mind when you think "builder" or "farmer"? The only guys who've got Men's Health bodies are putting a lot of specific effort in get there. In their own time, on their own motivation, choosing exercise over the sofa and a few cans of beer.

For many of us being relatively slim and healthy is a byproduct of an activity we love, rather than the reason we cycle.

But I can think of a few narcissistic individuals this kind of theory might apply to, if I've understood it correctly.

I wonder if some drivers have a go because they feel cyclists are flaunting their fitness.

Ha, I love this concept. A sort of inverse snobbery from the legions of fat (and therefore lower class) drivers. 😆

I'm a tubby cyclist and I still get crap off drivers from time to time (precious little time spent on roads these days), so I don't think that theory sticks.

For reference this week;

12 mile round trip commute to work and 1 hour circuits class
Tuesday 5k at lunch 27ish minutes - like I said I'm tubby.
Wednesday arms and chest session in the gym 12 round trip commute.
Thursday day off the gym so just the commute.
Friday Back and shoulders session in the gym plus the commute.
Saturday - planning a 5k in the morning.

I don't exercise as a form of status, it gets me places and balances out the amount I eat so I maintain weight as opposed to gain it!

I wonder if it's one among many reasons behind the irrationality of cyclist-hating too - riding a bike means you're fit and have the self-respect to look after yourself.

I can go along with this simply because 10 years ago I was a relatively unfit beer monster who did get a rather guilt-induced-envy-anger at the sight of racing-snake type cyclists, never had any inclination to obstruct or be rude to them on the roads though.

Careful now, you'll have CG telling you that body image is an entirely feminist issue and could never be an issue for blokes.

Que?

Half the boys I raced in my teens in athletics and cross country were from council schemes and trained hard as hell... no idea what the link says but probably one journalist getting their personal viewpoint aired.

For many of us being relatively slim and healthy is a byproduct of an activity we love, rather than the reason we cycle.

But I can think of a few narcissistic individuals this kind of theory might apply to, if I've understood it correctly.

Completely agree. I think there is a greater proportion of narcissists since cycling has become uber-fashionable.

I'm blessed to have found a sport I love which also keeps me in shape and takes care of my knees.