[Closed] Etape Caledoniaists

I very much doubt that there were many complaints from people who actually attend the church...

Course probably runs fine either way in theory but has to go anticlockwise in practice.

If you went the other way the start would be up the narrow singletrack road on the west side of the river to Logierait which would be a complete bottleneck with 3,500 people. Also the finish would mean closing the access onto and off the A9 at the top end of Pitlochry which would make getting out of Pitlochry to go north difficult (currently it's the access to and from the A9 at the south end of town that is shut, and that's to and from the south only). Also the event would shut down Rannoch and Strathtummel for a while (at the moment it's at the start of the route so "open" again by 10am - there isn't an alternatve route in and out). The way things stand the locals from Kinlochrannoch back to Pitlochry are back in action from 10am and you can get in and out of Aberfeldy all day anyway.

One change the organisers could easily make is to omit the loop through Fortingal (which cuts off access to traffic for Fortingal and the whole of Glen Lyon). IMO that section doesn't really add anything much to the route other than a few extra miles; it's not especially scenic as you're in the trees for most of it and would be an easy concession for the organisers to make.

If they did that the only people outside Pitlochry itself who would be affected for more than a couple of hours would be the small numbers living on the section of route between Kinlochrannoch and the Tay, and the slightly larger population living on the north side of the Tay.

To put some perspective on this, I'm pretty sure the total population on the route for the 60 miles or so between Kinlochrannoch and Pitlochry would be less than the number of people riding, and at worst they can't drive on the road for 3 or 4 hours on a Sunday morning anyway.

I don't think there is any need to over egg the pudding in terms of small claims

Why not? Make the bastard pay, I reckon. And like I said earlier; if the compo went to the charity, then that would be quite fitting.

And making false claims would achieve what exactly?

Oh, and one more point - all these cafes and pubs who are losing trade - where the **** are they?

When I rode the route in early May last year (not as part of the event, I must add) there was nowt between Kinlochrannoch and Fortingal Hotel - even the Caravan park on the hill road was shut.

Just found this online...
____________________________________________

To: Shona Robison MSP, Minister for Public Health and Sport, The Scottish Parliament

Dear Shona Robison

Re: Etape Caledonia – Closed Roads Cycle Event – 17th May 2009

I am appealing to you in your role as Minister for Sport, for your help and intervention in the running and organisation of the above mentioned event – billed as a national event - which is a) impacting detrimentally on thousands of residents, visitors, local businesses and churches, b) is causing schism within the population of Upper Tayside and c) is bringing the political process into disrepute.

This event, known as Etape Caledonia but in effect Etape Perthshire, variously described as a “Race” or a “Time Trial” and now merely an “Event” is the only closed roads cycle event in the UK – a condition demanded and imposed on Perth and Kinross Council by the organising company based in London. Perth and Kinross Council have acquiesced to this demand and have applied it for two years, this being the third year, and have given seed sponsorship to enable this event, ignoring the opposition to the closed roads from a significant number of local residents, businesses and churches and refusing to enter a constructive dialogue with the leaders and others within the community. A local protest group of 500+ signatories – ACRE Against Closed Road Events - has been ignored.

The event held on a Sunday in May (June in year 2007) impacts the whole weekend for some businesses as the overall weekend touring/residing visitor rate is reduced because of the closed roads. B&Bs and Hotels where long weekend bookings are reduced or have been eliminated altogether (one hotel lost a four figure booking in 2007), public gardens and other small-but-significant-to-the-local-economy businesses are all affected as are residents who cannot leave their homes because of closed roads. Equally employees of the affected businesses lose wages. These small and not so small businesses depend on the income of every weekend within a relatively short tourist season and cannot afford to be told that they will lose one of these weekends every year. The area affected stretches from Rannoch Station to Killiecrankie and Glen Lyon to Logierait – the whole of Upper Tayside. A rolling programme of road closures stretches from 5am to 1.40pm effectively blighting the whole of this area for the whole day and affecting the weekend.

It is true that some businesses which are not affected by closed roads benefit, but even in Pitlochry where the “Event” starts and finishes and where most of the visitors drawn by the event congregate, even here, I am informed that shops are to close for the day and business people and local residents say it is not worth the effort and upset to the community. My wife and I will lose money that day as an under-graduate music student from Dundee will be unable to attend his conducting and singing lesson. Obviously he will lose his lesson. For those businesses and residents and churches situated on the roads that will be closed the impact can have a truly detrimental effect and it is morally questionable to close roads and impact on church service times thus interfering with the freedom to worship – a basic human right at law. It is also morally and legally questionable to allow one business to use the public roads to make profit to the detriment of the community – resident and visinting.

An economic impact report by EKOS states that huge financial benefits accrue to the community from this event. However this report is believed to be deeply flawed as few of the negatively impacted and dissenting businesses were canvassed. John Swinney has told me that one can have little faith in economic impact reports as “we have all been involved in writing them” and know how figures can be presented in a particular manner to support an argument. I have to agree with him, having been involved with similar reports for arts organisation.

P&K Council also allow the statutory notice and information on road closures to be sent out to residents and businesses using third party mailing and since I and many others have ticked the preference box on the Electoral Form saying we do not wish to receive third party mailing we therefore never receive the information. P&K Councillors already knew of this in year one and were informed of this again last year. To date we, and I presume others, have not received the statutory notice of road closures. If it is deemed necessary for some to receive such notice then it is necessary for all.

These concerns have been put to local Councillors and Officers of P&K Council privately by many individuals and leaders within the community, but have never been taken seriously. Meetings labelled as “public” have been advertised in such a manner that only sympathetic supporters have been aware of them and few, if any, face-face meetings have taken place with local Councillors to listen to constituents complaints. This high-handed disregard for the views of many is significantly eroding an already low level faith in the political machine – local and national.

In this difficult economic climate it is reprehensible that our Councillors have done nothing and our MSPs appear to have down nothing to alleviate the adverse economic and social effects of the decision of P&K Council to acquiesce to the demands of a private organisation to run this “Event” on closed roads. P&K Council have given permission for this event to run for another four years without reference to the public or to a proper assessment of outcome.

M/s Robison we are not against cyclists or sport – we are against closed roads. I appeal to you to help us save this situation for the benefit of Scotland, the Community, Sport and the rights of people to live their lives whether for business or for leisure unhindered by the rights of others to enjoy the wonderful opportunities that Scotland has to offer. That is a Democratic Right. Let us all work to re-negotiate this cycling event without having to close the roads.

Since the poor management and organisation of “Etape Perthshire” is bringing much criticism on the Sport, the Organisers and the Local and National Politicians, why not have a real “Etape Caledonia” that annually moves around Scotland for the benefit of the whole country and does not require closed roads of any region?

With the wonderful results at the Olympics and looking forward to 2012, Scotland could, and should, become a world leader as a Cycling Nation. This Etape Fiasco is bringing disrepute on the Sport. It needs direction from Holyrood – from you M/s Robison as Minister – for the benefit of the Nation.

We are prepared to meet you in Edinburgh, Dundee or host a meeting of those concerned with you at our home.

I await your reply with anticipation.

Yours sincerely

Norman Beedie DRSAM; LRAM; ARCM

gary> I don't think anyone should make false claims; it's illegal.

Anyway, all I was saying was that if there is a successful prosecution tomorrow then it will open small claims for people that crashed or had small expenses for tubes etc. I know the helicopter was there at least once for a chappie who had tacks in his tyre and that must have cost a fortune.

Carpet tackers have to realise that if they are going to do something this daft then there will be criminal and civil recourse consequences. The scottish courts are not 'sue crazy' but you can get proper claims pursued. That is what the small claims court is for.

donating the amount to charity has a nice touch of irony about it.

my god I don't think I've ever been so annoyed after reading a thread

Re. the way some people have jumped down poly's throat because s/he dared to attempt to work out the criminal's motivation (never justifying or condoning) to take such despicable actions.

I would say quite clearly playing devil's advocate - (after all, discussions tend to be a bit boring if everyone reiterates the same point and agrees every time) - and is basically told to shut up because.. well, I don't know why really.

argh, I've also never been quite so inarticulate as I am now - I can't think straight, It's my fault, I should never have read the bloody thread - others might not be upset by it, but I'm certainly worked up..

anyway, trying to calm down *breathe*, has taught me a valuable lesson and I'll stick to less 'emotive' topics from now on..

miaowing_kat - Member

my god I don't think I've ever been so annoyed after reading a thread

Re. the way some people have jumped down poly's throat because s/he dared to attempt to work out the criminal's motivation (never justifying or condoning) to take such despicable actions.

I would say quite clearly playing devil's advocate - (after all, discussions tend to be a bit boring if everyone reiterates the same point and agrees every time) - and is basically told to shut up because.. well, I don't know why really.

Chill. It's often said that it's difficult to convey tone adequately on t'internet. No need to get so worked up about it. I "got it", some didn't - no biggie.

TBH - I'm surprised this hasn't generated a few "wrong forum" comments yet 😀

yes, I have chilled down a bit now 🙂
but being a hot-headed female with PMS, the littlest things can make me want to throttle someone (how lucky there's no one else about right now)

* runs and hides *

[img] [/img]

miaowing_kat you're only getting so upset because you are presuming poly is a female.

PMS is not an excuse..

*runs*

eh? tbh, I'm fairly sure poly is male, as most females tend to give themselves a girly forum name.
I just used s/he because someone else had used the same courtesy.

..or are you just trying to get a rise out of me? 😛

i can assure you that medically poly is male, albeit a bit of a big girl

OK, here's a potential rise. The reason that poly got roasted was because he/she:

1) Expressed an detailed assumptions on how it effected the local communities and businesses despite not living within 200 miles of here - and got it totally wrong

2) Was incredibly patronising trying to explain to people how life in the country works

Culprit update. Mrs M was out locally last night and heard that the "62 year old man from Rannoch" arrested is the chairman of Rannoch community council, the equivelant of a parish council in England.

If confirmed and convicted he is obviously an idiot, past his sell by date, and totally out of tune with the people he is meant to represent. Is he related to Gordon Brown?

Health warning - if my information is wrong, I apologise unreservedly

So CaptainMainwaring is chairman of Rannoch community council listed on the link above for court appearances today. That will confrim if true or not.

Captain, does his name appear on the court list link posted above?

[url= http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/05/20/council-chief-charged-over-race-sabotage-86908-21373683/ ]Just found this[/url]
Followed this thread over the last few days – I find it a lamentable comment on the is countries (the UK as a whole) attitude to sport an cycling in particular – yes were happy to wave flags and bask in Olympic glory but not prepared to be moderately inconvenienced by grass roots events. British road racing is been suffocated by the lack of closed road racing and huge restrictions on open road racing.

mmm thats strange there is not 'Alex Grosset' listed on the court appearances.

FWIW

Today's news [url] http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2009/05/20/newsstory13167487t0.asp [/url]

If carpert tack boy is local, it might be better for him if he gets locked up for a while.
The poster campaign might also shut the anti-race protestors up for a bit as well.
poster is here [url] http://www.cyclehighlandperthshire.com/home/etape-caledonia/support-hp-cycling.aspx [/url]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Wonder if this is the same A Grosset from Tighnacoille who is listed in directory enquiries.

Hmm. Can't find his name on the court list. Perhaps it is not the same guy - need to connect a bit more to the local tom-toms

So, the guy arrested is an Alex Grosset, and he is chair of the CC, but his name is not on the court list

CM check tonight's tully

Anyone going to court today to see how this idiot is dealt with?

( I know - wrong to assume guilt :?)

slightly ironic then that this guy has been hounding Nicola Sturgeon for better emergency response facilities at Rannoch:

[url= http://www.commentonline.co.uk/health/RannochTummelOOHTheCruxoftheMatter.htm ]http://www.commentonline.co.uk/health/RannochTummelOOHTheCruxoftheMatter.htm[/url]

[url= http://news.stv.tv/scotland/39826-discussion-of-emergency-response-in-kinloch-rannoch/ ]http://news.stv.tv/scotland/39826-discussion-of-emergency-response-in-kinloch-rannoch/[/url]

and here is news of the arrest at the daily record - who get the details wrong!
[url= http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/05/20/council-chief-charged-over-race-sabotage-86908-21373683/ ]http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/05/20/council-chief-charged-over-race-sabotage-86908-21373683/[/url]

A serial complainer

Maybe a hobby would help?

Somoene lend him a bike 😀

Looks like he does have a hobby, unfortunately it's complaining. Still, look on the bright side, highly unlikley he'll still be chairman of his busy body gang.

despite not living within 200 miles of here

Well the Record did get some stuff right by the looks of things.

[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8059601.stm [/url]

"He has been a chairman of the Rannoch and Tummel Community Council and is also a church elder." - LOL

[i]that statement is factually incorrect. I live considerably closer than that... in fact I could cycle to Pitlochry, do the race and cycle home (hypothetically!) and still not have covered 200 miles. [/i]

Unfortunately it doesn't stop you talking out yer arse.

According to times on line the tackist is a solicitor

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6328018.ece

Looks like he was trying to generate some business..........

A personal injury lawyer no less. How ironic. Maybe looking for trade?

Bit late to this but anyway. I traveled with three others from Plymouth for the event, spent a load of cash there, had a good time.

However the point of spending nearly 20 hours in a car was to ride on a closed road. Pity it was quite literally closed by that idiot.

Good to see that so many of you will go back next year, I won't. It's easier (and probably cheaper) for me to go to France to ride an event there.

Over 600 entries for 2010 already.

Too far fella.

You aiming for a 4 hour next time?

If anyone is planning sueing for damaged tubes, wasted weekends or general stress and trauma you not want to use these people. Check the reviews - [url] http://www.lawyer-solicitors-uk.co.uk/1584766-lawyer-Jas-S-Grosset.html [/url]

An interesting email exchange I had with the leader of the ACRE campaign - read from the bottom up and enjoy!

============================================================
Douglas, I am MD of our company, I also work as a journalist - look me up, I have a wife 3 kids, 3 step kids six grandkids, one step grand kid, I am 65 tomorrow, and I have too much time on my hands??? I hope I acted as ACRE spokesperson for altruistic purposes because when we started ACRE it seemed our business here would benefit, being on an open road. It hasn't but that is not my reason for stating the views of many locals. Can't say more, off to Germany for three days in the morning. Peter

On 19 May 2009, at 12:14, Douglas Rogers wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> There are several points you bring up that need some reply
>
> Firstly - what was the purpose of the event
> - This was billed as an Etape, the idea is to ride the course to the best of your ability. As a keen cyclist that is what I wanted to do, and the many cyclists I talked to wanted to do the same. There was a wide range of ability, with people like myself that go out training several times a week to what might be described as the Sunday cyclists. A good time is had by cycling in company, and perhaps the start times could be staggered a bit more and the grading of riders improved slightly, but that would not remove the fact that cars on this circuit would be extremely dangerous, and would actually extend the time needed for the road closures. Many people came to ride here because it was safe, because there were no cars. This event has already become one of the premier event in the Sportive calender, with further encouragement it will become the challenge for the growing number of cyclists in this country.
>
> Secondly - was it imposed
> - The words you use are emotive, I don't doubt your sincerity but by being a mouthpiece for this organisation, brining your skills of communication, you have raised the tempo of feeling. The words I heard from people in the area was "small town mentality" and the cycling message boards talk of "white settlers". What you are achieving through this language is a polarisation between yourselves and the majority of people living in the area. The roads round our hose are closed sometimes - I could say "imposed by the council" but that would be disingenuous. We all live in a society that makes difficult decisions on the best course of action, and that sometimes disadvantages me as well.
>
> Should the 500 plus local people stay mum?
> - I don't live there but I can see how that figure is arrived at - a petition in the local shop and peoples conversation moaning about . However cycling through the area and being cheared along the route by so many locals was fantastic! Perhaps you should put out a new sheet in the local shops with a for and against option for everyone, and gauge the real opinion of the local people. Lets have a sense of proportion, I expect that your business had increased trade, and for most people a little bit of forethought would have resolved the problems of access.
>
> Peter, perhaps you have too much time on your hands and too much bitterness against authority - there is so much for the local community to gain by working with the council and cycling organisations, whereas the ACRE standpoint is poisoning that relationship.
>
> Douglas
>
> Peter Hounam wrote:
>> Hi Douglas, I do not want to get into a long debate but I wonder what you think of this point. According the Etape and the regulations by which the roads were closed, this was supposed to be a trial. In other such trials on open roads, the sheer madness of masses of cyclists heading down narrow roads is avoided because the riders start over a three hour period. The Etape event is started in a 45 minute period, encouraging racing. If it was elongated, it would be possible - we are advised by other trial organisers - to have it open roads, as they do. By the way, nothing we have done legitimises the actions of the idiot who dropped tacks. Are you saying that ACRE and the 500 plus local people who have tried to get this to be an open road event, should just have stayed mum after our council imposed this on our area?
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 19 May 2009, at 11:01, Douglas Rogers wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your reply Peter,
>>>
>>> If you were out on Sunday you would realise that having cars on that road would be shear madness. The council has rightly closed the roads, to ensure a safe event - just as it closes the roads around my house when there is a running event etc. It is inevitable that with any decision, there are those that see themselves as winners and losers, it is a matter of limiting the impact not fighting the decision.
>>>
>>> The problem is that the ACRE front that has put so much effort into a minor point - a road closure for 3 hours on a Sunday - that it legitamizes the actions of those that believe that direct action is OK. As a journalist of long standing I would hope that you understand this, and work with the council to maximise your commercial gains from this event rather than legitimize its sabotage, with the inevitable effect on the whole community and Scotland's reputation.
>>>
>>> Douglas
>>>
>>> Peter Hounam wrote:
>>>> ACRE had nothing to do with what happened and utterly deplores it. I am sorry you had your day spoilt. We are not Nimbies nor anti-cyclist. We have offered to help run an open road event. Our beef it with the council for imposing this on the area and causing avoidable inconvenience to many people as well as financial loss to a significant number of people though not my own business. If you come to our coffee house in Grandtully some time I'll buy you a coffee.
>>>> Peter Hounam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 May 2009, at 18:42, Douglas Rogers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Peter,
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send me a cheque for £54 to reimburse my entry fee for a race you and your NIMBY nutcases destroyed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>
>>>>>