Nowt wrong with e-bikes, but its incorrect to see them as a modern progression or evolution of the bicycle.
Power assisted pedalling has been around since someone first thought to strap an engine on a bicycle frame. So they're more like a re-invention of the road going derny or a low powered moped (in its original sense as a dual powered two wheeler).
It'd be great if people started seeming them as a real alternative to the motor car, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen.
^^^^ how dare you bring facts into this trolling...
BJ. I get it you don't like them that's fine, i'm guessing you may not benefit from one. But others will benefit greatly from them.
You really want to outlaw them..and stop people enjoying this sport?
It's ok, imma buy a load of old trailquest/Polaris style map boards and repurpose them so people can attach their doctors note and/ or birth certificate so others can judge whether or not they deserve their ebike.
Then buy (another) ebike with the profits
Every time I see one of these threads I start looking at ebikes. One day I'll have had a few drinks and that'll be it...
What negs me out is that ebike rules will only ever be enforced in cities and suburbs where a nippy, light, pedal free ebike (as opposed to a e-moped - which are just stupid heavy for no real reason) would actually make a lot of sense
This is getting silly now, how can a bike with a motor, be the same as one with out. I think the whole point is it's a different sport.
Thin end of the wedge i tell you.
I had problems on a rock climb a few months back. I'm going back in a week with a hammer and chisel to chip out a nice big jug hold next to the crux. It seems easier than training and/or improving my technique.
Good to see some balance coming from the STW fraternity 🙂
Fergal has it,ebikes are something different. They have a place but aren't an evolution of or a replacement for normal bicycles. I do wish people would stop lumping them in with mountain bikes as a whole 🙁
Sorry Evolution was poorly chosen, how about alternative progression? 😉
Got overtaken a couple of times at Dyfi yesterday by blokes riding these (same as in the OP I believe)...
[img] 
[/img]
They were flying up the climbs at the speed of a petrol motorbike.
Personally I've gone 180 degrees on pedal-assist e-bikes and don't have a problem with them, but these electric motorbikes would definitely not be suitable for all trails IMO.
I seen the the staff at Bike Park Wales last week refusing to let a guy ride his electric motorcrosser - or what ever it was - on their trails
They said it was kicking out more than the allowable power output so asked him to use another bike or leave
I was very encouraged by this attitude 🙂
Where is it written that riding a bike has to involve getting tired & out of breath? Its meant to be enjoyable, getting worn out isnt enjoyable.
Once of the reasons I dont associate myself with being a cyclist, I just ride a bike. Too much cock socketery involved with being a cyclist.
Some people need to learn the difference between an e-motorbike & an e-bike.
Lol at oldtalent, this thread has gone beyond parody now. Just enjoy yourselves and I wish all you ebikers well. 😀
Hopefully, a slight change of tack on the thread - there's this young bleach/coloured hair kid who flies past me on the cycle path some evenings, is this legal - it's a bike shaped thing, more cruiser style, it looks old and rusty, it makes a brrrm noise (quiet), he wears no helmet, it goes at least 30mph.
Can't think what it is unless the law just can't catch him. One morning he pulled out on a roundabout in front of me and I called him a rude name - he just accelerated off like a rocket.
I seen the the staff at Bike Park Wales last week refusing to let a guy ride his electric motorcrosser - or what ever it was - on their trails
They said it was kicking out more than the allowable power output so asked him to use another bike or leave
I was very encouraged by this attitude
You do know that that is the view of pretty well every pedal assist ebike rider, right?
+ a sideways 8 for people learning the difference between a pedalec bike, and a motorbike powered by electricity. Clue: it's not 'having a motor'
[quote=oldtalent ]Some people need to learn the difference between an e-motorbike & an e-bike.
Some people, including joe public presumably? Given that the issue appears to be people taking to the trails with e-motorbikes as if they were e-bikes and potentially causing problems.
Got overtaken a couple of times at Dyfi yesterday by blokes riding these
You are aware of where most of the tracks in the Dyfi came from aren't you?
Man, some of the stuff posted in this topic is getting insane. I thought this was the liberal STworld not the pseudo-nazi-daily mail-NIMBY-fest world. Blimey, a few people choose to buy an electrically assisted pedal bike and suddenly all hell breaks loose.
E-MTB's will be huge, once the price comes down and weight get closer to 30 than 40 pounds then I think they will be everywhere off-road. Big deal, lots of room out there for all of us.
I'm test riding one this week.
You are aware of where most of the tracks in the Dyfi came from aren't you?
You are aware that I didn't say they were unsuitable for the Dyfi, aren't you?
Good job.
Should have told them to get some proper bikes though.
Far better for making trails with. 😉
Stop being pedantic it's still an electric motor, why won't they let me ride an Enduro event on one.
Sure i've seen you toproping Severe at Stanage.
PS. They will be everywhere because people are inherently fat and lazy.
Legal E bikes on trails designed for MTB's? No dramas. I'm sure the day will come when I will get one myself.
Electric motorbike as defined by the DVLA being used on trails designed for MTB's? That's irresponsible, obnoxious & ****tish.
Trail centres (I use that specific example as the OP was talking about Bedgebury) weren't designed for the power & pace of something like that Bronco. It is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. Kind of like taking a high powered car on the public road & blasting about.
You want to go fast on your chosen toy? Do it where it's appropriate to do so. Be that the track, proper moto cross trails are so far away from anyone else the only one whose going to get hurt is you.
It's so fekin simple & obvious you'd have to be a total moron to argue otherwise.
POSTED 1 MONTH AGO #
Man, some of the stuff posted in this topic is getting insane. I thought this was the liberal STworld not the pseudo-nazi-daily mail-NIMBY-fest world. Blimey, a few people choose to buy an electrically assisted pedal bike and suddenly all hell breaks loose.
E-MTB's will be huge, once the price comes down and weight get closer to 30 than 40 pounds then I think they will be everywhere off-road. Big deal, lots of room out there for all of us.
I'm test riding one this week.
because you obviously don't understand that they're a threat to MTB full stop for normal users. not threat in the "eveyrone will stop riding them" way, but that the lazy ****ers will get it banned for everyone else way (*caveat health reasons etc.. i haven't met a single person who hasn't bought one as an act conspicuous consumption yet!)
Seems to be a lot of daily mail readers on here lately
stop being pedantic it's still an electric motor, why won't they let me ride an Enduro event on one.
Because it's in the rules. Same reason you can't use an F1 car in a clio cup race. (Or, more relevantly, a full aero tri bike in a uci sanctioned TT)
Same as the rules that allow pedelec bikes but not electric motorbikes, really.
Pretty sure most of the pro peloton have 2 electric motors on their bikes, designed to make their ride easier/faster should they've banned too?
As i stated it's a different sport, so stop kidding yourselves you are operating in the same one.
If it is the same one it is as bad as mechanical doping!.
I think ebikes are a great thing as long as they allow an elderly to wander around, or let people commuting and carrying kids without much effort. This can save a lot of traffic and will help to develop bike paths network.
But they shouldn't be allowed on bike paths over a certain power.
As i stated it's a different sport
It's only a sport if you're competing.
But they shouldn't be allowed on bike paths over a certain power.
They aren't. Anything more than 250w is a motorbike, and subject to the same rules as their petrol brethren
Plus, don't some different sports use the same playing surfaces?
They aren't. Anything more than 250w is a motorbike, and subject to the same rules as their petrol brethren
Not sure how much is that.
In The Netherlands (a real pedallers paradise) also petrol motorbikes can use bike paths, as long as they don't go faster than 25km/h (=15miles/hour).
Same rule applies here. To be an ebike, the motor must cut out totally at 25kph. They can go faster than that, but only under the riders power/gravity
Petrol mopeds can't use cycle paths though, as they operate without being pedaled
[quote=5thElefant ]It's only a sport if you're competing.
Straaaaava
As i stated it's a different sport, so stop kidding yourselves you are operating in the same one.
*devils advocate*
So why does the front page of Singletrack have e-bike stories then?
[i]Should[/i] it?
"because you obviously don't understand that they're a threat to MTB full stop for normal users."
Utter nonsense. And I'll explain why: Off-road capable bicycles are available for £300 or less, quite 'affordable' to most people. But the countryside isn't full of people on off-road bikes, tearing about everywhere. Roads in some remote places have very little if any traffic, and are perfect for ragging a sportscar on, but you don't get more than the occasional **** doing so. The wilderness areas that people are concerned about, are mostly some distance from metropolitan areas, therefore the kind of folk who'd prefer/need an e-bike won't be able to access them easily. And in my experience, the cycle lanes etc in London, which has far more cyclists per square miles than anywhere else in the country, aren't terrorised by e-bikes. Indeed, full powered petrol motorcycles often share space with pedal cycles, without to many issues. Then there's the cost; e-bikes will always cost quite a bit, so won't be owned by anywhere near the number of people who own pedal bikes. I do think we may see some issues in the near future, but nowhere near the extent some doom mongers are claiming!
"In The Netherlands (a real pedallers paradise) also petrol motorbikes can use bike paths, as long as they don't go faster than 25km/h (=15miles/hour)."
Yeah, but they are really, really embarrasing to be seen out on. 😆
just place my order.........
All Ebikes are not mountain bikes any more than all cars are landrovers. Most ebikes will never go off road like most cars never do.
An ebike is not the same as an electric motor bike and arguing one looks a lot like the other so it's the same is ridiculous.
It's more likely to get "us" banned by riding cheeky* than by riding an e bike where it's allowed, by damaging trails/land/property we're not supposed to be on in the first instance.
Off road you're riding legaly (a) where horses are allowed, they make a lot of mess and I'd wager more than an e bike. (B) private land with permission, who is allowed to ride what (i.e. no horses on cycle trails) is then down to the land owner regardless of the legal status of that vehicle**.
If it's neither of the above you shouldn't be there, either the land owner turns a blind eye - say off piste trails on FC land - in which case why should you be ignored and someone else not? Or you're riding somewhere the land owner doesn't want you and I expect ebikes will be treated the same.
Suggesting we should blanket ban ebikes because you don't like [being beaten up hill by] them is daft. If you're worried about inappropriate trail usage I'd suggest you start by proactively working to ensure cyclists do not deviate from bridalways, roads or designated cycle routes. Alternatively stop worrying about it and get on with your life or better still campaign for updated access rights for all (including if you're really that bothered about it) specific restrictions on ebike access, though I'd suggest a decent fit for purpose right of way network would dilute any impact sufficiently you'll never notice the damage and get improved access to boot.
*cheeky isn't really, it's genuinely not allowed but we're (largely) happy doing it anyway because it suits us, it's certainly more illegal than riding an e bike on a bridleway.
**i imagine if ownership of the vehicle were illegal this might not be true but on private land the owner is welcome to drive tanks along cycle trails if they see fit.
That looks fun ton 🙂
My suspicion is that motors will end up being a bigger thing on roadies than MTBs. The ideas of an extra 40-100W for minimal extra weight is pretty tempting I think. That new Cippolini with a hidden motor - how much does that weigh?
[I've test ridden a lecky MTB - good fun up obviously but too heavy coming down - ruined it for me]
[quote=dangeourbrain ]An ebike is not the same as an electric motor bike and arguing one looks a lot like the other so it's the same is ridiculous.
I'm not sure anybody is arguing that. The potential issue though is that if the average person or ranger is unable to tell the difference and e-motorbikes are ragging about the place causing problems, then e-bikes are going to be blamed for causing problems. That does have potential knock on effects for unpowered bicycles.
I'm certainly not suggesting e-bikes should be banned, and in general I think they're a good thing, but this isn't a black and white issue - it is possible to think that and still recognise that e-motorbikes which look like e-bikes (and are used by their owners as if they are) could cause access issues.
That looks fun toni was jesting simon, forgot to add this...... 😉
[quote=reggiegasket ]My suspicion is that motors will end up being a bigger thing on roadies than MTBs. The ideas of an extra 40-100W for minimal extra weight is pretty tempting I think.
I can see that being a very tempting way to get to ride with a faster club group than you might otherwise manage - or to otherwise allow a slower rider to keep up with faster mates. I'm sure such bikes will also get used in sportives (I'm guessing they are already) which is a pain, but I'm struggling to get too worked up about it - the only people the riders are cheating is themselves.
How many people responding have actually ridden an ebike?
I have just got back in from a ride around Afan, about 25 miles, and can assure you that I am a little tired and feel as though I have been riding a bike off road.
It just increases your climbing speed dependant on the level of assist you choose.
Climbing is still quite a challenge , but in a different manner.
i had a go on one. nice bloke, nice bike.. still wave and shout cheater in a jokey fashion.. it's not all handbags!
and i know the health benefits are not non-existent, but also not the same.
without trying to load the question: how much could you have managed on a normal bike? whens the last time you tried?
Suggesting we should blanket ban ebikes because you don't like [being beaten up hill by] them is daft.
thats not it.
where i ride several of the trails 'up' are also the trails down. currently people going 'up' hill are doing between 0 and 8 mph. people coming down can be doing up to 20 easily. now add in someone riding 'up' at the same speed... a 20 mph collision becomes a 40mph one and as speed increases, likelihood increases. If i sometimes have to dodge people coming down when crawling up then..
