Poor little fella. It's a miracle that us DH riders survived the 90's, 00's and 10's.
This amuses me.
Except for the actual desecending, DHers are universally the laziest riders on the hill and always have been. Moaning about how long it takes to push up or sat on a trailer or in a van smoking your rollups.
Push up track or uplift was always the default.
If ebikes were available back then, you would have all had them.
You want to polish your rose tinted specs and have a look at yourself grandad.
Yep, managed to pick up a cheap Sur Ron and I just use it solo for blapping laps on old forgotten trails, it's brilliant for bedding in lost trails in a very short time.
This thread is about ebikes and normal bikes, not sure why your are bringing electric motorbikes into it. I hope those "old forgotten trails" are on land you own or you have the land owners permission to ride your motorbike on.
lightweight e-mtbs will be kind of jangly, indy guitar like The Smiths
Good point, it was only when I put my girlfriend on a Kona that I knew it was really serious.
Quad bike surely, powered by me quads innit.
See quite a lot of e-bikes on the south downs, they overtake on the ups, but then seem to get overtaken on the top and on the descents. It feels like the e-bikes are a way for mis-matched couples to get out on the bikes together, or non-cyclists to access the downs. It's horses for courses, they're out getting fresh air and so am I.
But like lots of folks up thread I enjoy the feeling of the physical effort, the achievement at the top and the beer at the end. Once i'm 76 like masterdabber I might think about an e-bike
But until then I can't go to Ventoux or the Alps and not cycle up can I, so need to keep my fitness up, and a turbo is a better way of getting/keeping fit than an e-bike i reckon
I've recently bought an ebike. Belt drive, 2 speed, narrow bars, lights, oversized non dropper seatpost, tiny wheels, mudguards and a rack. Folds up as well 😬.
Now, the massive 40nm of assistance can get me above 15.5mph in a couple of revolutions of the cranks and I'm back to riding an overweight, small wheeled, over geared (at times) bike wondering why I'm not riding my gravel bike!
That said I've used it more than my other bikes recently and my intention is to use it more in the future on my commute. The art of the ride is not to breech the assistance speed.
I think it has dulled my enthusiasm to buy an emtb anytime soon which is a good thing.
I bought an ebike end of 2024, about two years after all my mates had made the change. Held out as long as I could.
Key thing for me -
My 'acoustic' (yuk) bike, is sufficiently different to my ebike.
Instead of kidding oneself that I'll ride a mid travel full suspension trail/enduro-ish bike, when I also have a mid travel full suspension trail/enduro-ish bike with a motor... I haven't kept it (unlike said riding mates, whom all never ride them and thus they are simply clothes stands).
What I have kept, is my really light, racy, carbon XC hardtail. Its different enough to the (electric) trail bike that theres little cross over in the type of riding I do on them, and thus, the unpowered bike still gets used.
Instead of kidding oneself that I'll ride a mid travel full suspension trail/enduro-ish bike, when I also have a mid travel full suspension trail/enduro-ish bike with a motor
Yep
As soon as I bought my Kenevo, I sold my Capra. All my non-e bikes are sufficiently different enough to make me want to ride them.
That said, I was recently thinking about buying a mid travel full suspension trail/enduro-ish bike again - I was putting a lot of leg miles in and wanted something other than the HT to go on rocky days in the Peak. Since then, my riding/fitness has died back considerably and I've just bought another ebike....
I reckon mtb in general will be ebikes and acoustic or old school mtbs will be used by a small hard-core group . What's your vibe
I did say a few years back that MTB (the mainstream and media image at least) would be a powered sport soon enough but was half expecting to be proven wrong. Doesn't look like it now if you go to any trail centre or laps spot. MTB culture was always closer to snowboarding than road racing so no suprise. It's a ride culture not a pedal culture.
I've had times of being into the DH runs and doing jumps or the 4x track but that didn't last as long, I missed the 'getting out there' aspect of MTB and started pedalling again to link up a few far-apart runs rather than sessioning one area with the guys who didn't like to pedal. Big loops beats laps for me.
My vibe .. always was and will be a mountain biker, loved the few occasions I have had a good e-MTB to ride yet one won't be in my garage untill I'm unable to push the pedals round. I like getting up hills under my own power (I know I can be out of breath climbing on an e-bike too but it's not the same for me) and there's nothing like a 'no chain' day in summer.
I expect to be one of the niche of day ride pedallers in future, that's ok though.
Personally - and I alluded to this above. Anyone that gets in the least bit bothered about what somene else either rides, or indeed calls a particular genre of bike riding needs slapping with a wet fish. And made to ride road bikes for the rest of their lives...
It sounds like you're bothered about other people being bothered about something. I imagine the wet fish slapping would apply to that too.
All my non-e bikes are sufficiently different enough to make me want to ride them.
One of my pedal bikes is very similar to my Ebike.
I still ride it simply because I like riding bikes.
No need for overcomplicating anything and justifying what you do or don't ride with in depth reasoning.
It's just pissing about in the woods on a toy.
I only know about 5 other people that ride mtb's but none of them ride ebikes. #justsayin...
I get it, I really do, people want all the fun without working for it.
But my mind doesn't work like that. You've got to earn your turns.
Enjoy the effort of the climb, the challenge of getting to the top, the burn in your legs and lungs, the work needed.
Completely agree, and I still do that on an ebike. Llandegla is 30 mins from where I live , so I go fairly regularly.
The first 2.4 mile climb is hateful on a push bike. On an ebike it becomes a challenge and in bits fun getting the corners and braking right uphill to maintain speed. It’s an absolute killer too pushing yourself on an ebike as you invariably go above 15mph
I often max out on my heart rate going up it.
Best bit is that I can then use the motor to recover on some of the other hateful climbs around the red/black loop, do sections multiple times, and do at least x 2 full laps in roughly the same time it takes to do 1 lap on a push bike
Im always knackered when I get back to the car. Even back in the day when doing very amateurish racing I wouldn’t have been able to do the same distance / laps etc.
One of my pedal bikes is very similar to my Ebike.
I still ride it simply because I like riding bikes.
No need for overcomplicating anything and justifying what you do or don't ride with in depth reasoning.
It's just pissing about in the woods on a toy.
Bully for you.
I wasn't setting rules, just broadcasting my personal preference. Is that OK?
Dude what you ride(or anyone else) and why holds no interest to me.
Just using your quote as an example how folks try and justify stuff no one else cares about.
i could have quoted someone else doing the same thing but your post happened to be above and easy to use.🤷♀️
Maybe I'm now in the minority that the fitness/competitive side is a big part of the reason I ride.
So trail and enduro is just one part of my hobby. I also race gravel, road, xc. I couldn't really justify an e bike cost when you can get an xt equipped bike for half the cost. I can't keep up climbing when people have motors at places like Golfie. But I'm close enough. I like the exercise aspect as well. Means the climbing work goes towards general fitness gains.
At places like GT where I can ride my xc bike I have little trouble keeping up with e bikes unless they are in boost modes.
I know a few racers who've purchased e bikes. It Allows them to ride easy on recover days. If I lived I the tweed valley as was climbing those hills everyday I'd probably consider it.
I think there will be a general move over to e bikes. Local MTB club is now the majority ebikes. Trail centres also the majority.
Be interesting to see what this means for the sport. Will it change what where and how we are riding. Will it affect how people get into the sport and learn.
Back when I started your only option at a low price point was a hardtail. You learnt a style of rising to accommodate no rear travel. You could spot people who had only learned on a full suss. I guess ebikes teach different habits and style also.
The first 2.4 mile climb is hateful on a push bike.
It's just a bog standard, steady, non-technical climb and a good opportunity to chat to people and enjoy the endless trees... I have no idea why people who hate climbing bother riding mountain bikes. I like climbs, they give you a chance to chill out and think. Or chat. Or, if you want to, hammer yourself senseless.
My personal experience is that by speeding up climbs, e-mtbs fundamentally change many of the things I enjoy about riding bikes - the rhythm and experience of the ride is different and more frantic. I'm not saying everyone should feel that way or that my experience is in any way more valid than yours, but e-bikes do seem like another facet of our ceaseless drive to make everything as complex and insulated from basics as possible.
Take a relatively simple, human-powered object like a bicycle and strip away the human-powered bit and what you end up with is basically a slightly crap electric motorbike with a 'throttle' that you control with your pedals. I'm not saying it's a bad thing per se, but it's not the same as a conventional mountain bike. I think there's an element of people gaslighting themselves here.
And I do occasionally ride an e-mtb, which is kind of how I know 🙄
I've never ridden an ebike, kind of scared to incase I don't want to go back to a normal one. Tbh riding is the only exercise I do and enjoy, so an ebike probably would be detrimental to my already not ideal fitness. I like the challenge and satisfaction of getting to the top under my own steam.
That said I can definitely see the appeal, if I lived somewhere with proper hills and lots of good descents I reckon I'd love a bigger travel eeb for getting the most runs in without an uplift.
What is an acoustic bike? One with a particular sound quality?
I thought ebikes were acoustic? Especially the ones with Shimano motors. Confused now.
I totally agree with FunkyDunc. I too am usually knackered after a ride on my (full fat) MTB. I don't think I've lost any fitness over the 3 and a bit years I've been riding it (original motor, too!). I can still do the same road rides at the same pace that I have managed for a good few years, so I'm happy. I think the word that some of you are missing is ...... Fun! I'm 70 in a couple of weeks, btw.
Once my extensively fractured pelvis is healed I'll be back on the 'push bike'. Electric, over my dead body, although this accident may yet need a total hip replacement, either soon or in a few years.
I haven't read any posts on this thread but the original one.
It makes me slightly sad that a rider I know is many levels above my own skill and whose posts I have appreciated over the years can only get his pleasure now from artificial aids.
It makes me slightly sad that a rider I know is many levels above my own skill and whose posts I have appreciated over the years can only get his pleasure now from artificial aids
Don't be sad, he's enjoying riding his bike 🤷
I've ridden several ebikes. I still get the feeling battery and motor technology will be much more advanced in a few years. General reliability remains lacking. I'll probably get one at some point, but am in no rush. This would be for winch and plummet fun trails rather than any other riding. I know I'll like one, that's part of the problem. I don't want it to stop me enjoying normal bikes. I'll probably wait until a lot of people I ride with have gotten one. A few have, mostly riders I could keep up with on a normal bike anyway. If not it's no problem to not ride with those people. I can appreciate riding an ebike is still a workout, but it's like weightlifting with half the usual weight. Or riding a road bike for ages and then getting on a mountain bike and finding it a struggle. All else being equal over time some top end strength will be lost. Several ebikers I know have mentioned this as one of the reasons they're going back to non electric.
I'm not a naturally fit person, and loose fitness fairly quickly. At school I sometimes got out of breath just climbing stairs, and could barely run, despite not being asthmatic or overweight. When I started cycling more seriously I put the time, effort and consistency in to get a decent level of fitness, which wasn't easy. Taking the easy option is human nature. Whatever the personal reasons may be, it grates when someone who hasn't or can't put the effort in to elevate their fitness zooms by like I'm going backwards.
The rise of ebikes does have an effect on the rest of us. They are putting significant additional traffic and wear and tear on trails. A number of longstanding local trails have been modified (ruined) to include jumps in locations only really suitable for ebikes, likely even then only illegal derestricted ones. Uphill in some places. Every rider I've spoken to isn't happy about the changes. In recent years a lot of longer trails through my local woods have been replaced with short straight down and straight back up runs to suit battery bikes.
One bike only here, and it's not an e-bike. I've demo'd one before - mate was in the market for one and I took a different model out so he could try both. Had a right laugh. If time and money were no object, I'd absolutely have one as a second bike. However, as it is, I've got limited time to ride and worry that the temptation to favour the e-bike would jeopardise my fitness.
Agree that the numbers of e-bikes are through the roof. At the Golfie, I tend to see large groups of riders from other parts of the UK on short breaks or day trips. E-bikes definitely seem the weapon of choice for that scenario, squeezing out maximum fun and variety.
Also, as a fan of dumb jokes, I quite like the term "acoustic bike".
“Acoustic”?
When I swap it feels like I have left half thebfun at home
That’s because you’ve lost all your fitness and are relying on an electric motor.
Of course, somebody who lost 5kg from riding e-bikes will be along to correct me on this.
The bike doesnt need to be part of any fitness regime. You can go to the gym, take up a sport like Judo or Karate, or anything else for that matter.
But this harking on about how riding an ebike will impact on your fitness, and as such an 'analogue' bike is the only thing you should own is wearing a bit thin.
So run an analogue bike if you wish, and if you are so concerned over the fitness aspect, make sure the bike is a single speed with a big chainring, because you wouldn't want to impact your fitness by having bloody gears fitted.
The bike doesnt need to be part of any fitness regime. You can go to the gym, take up a sport like Judo or Karate, or anything else for that matter.
One of the most common reasons given for buying an ebike is lack of time. You're advocating buying an ebike AND taking out a gym membership (which, incidentally, is pretty much the opposite of FUN!). Okay....
I've been riding bikes all my adult life and MTBs since they first appeared and consider myself a mountain biker, I like big rides in the hills and playing around the woods. Like most I have dabbled in road, gravel etc but now in my 70s I don't have the energy any more to enjoy what I love. Over the past couple of years I have sold my gravel, road and MTBs and got a couple of ebikes, a trail bike and an enduro bike, which span the riding I love. No idea how much longer I will be riding but it's time in my life to concentrate on the stuff I I want to do and my ebikes allow me to keep doing that.
I was a relatively early ebike adopter, I've had it over six years now. I really really like it - it makes a commute far more fun and saves my legs/lungs when I'm feeling tired/ill. When I'm short of time, on full power I can get so much descending done in so little time on the ebike because it's so damn fast uphill. I'm not sure I really like the vibe when doing a ride at full speed like that, it's bit much - feels like there's no time to think...
And it has been great in stupidly windy weather, when it's not safe to be in the woods so you have to be out on the hills in 40mph+ headwinds which are frankly depressing on any bike without a motor. When I wasn't getting on with my old hardtail I did a lot of group rides where I'd switch the power off for all/most of the group part of the ride and use the motor to get me there and home solo faster.
I replaced that hardtail a few years back with one I much prefer - and tried setting it up as a singlespeed to start with. That (still) singlespeed hardtail is now my favourite bike to ride. I haven't taken it to any gnarlier places yet but its been great around Brighton, Friston and the Surrey Hills (my last SH ride everyone else turned up on ebikes whilst I had no rear suspension, gear or motor - it was quite hard but fun and rewarding).
If I had infinite time and energy I'd probably always ride the singlespeed hardtail - I just like how it feels, it's a very satisfying sensory experience being so connected to the ground but still having modern geometry and a big fork for confidence/safety. But as I'm a human (who is apparently middle-aged, to my horror) with a life outside MTBing I love how the ebike helps me when I need help.
Taking the easy option is human nature. Whatever the personal reasons may be, it grates when someone who hasn't or can't put the effort in to elevate their fitness zooms by like I'm going backwards.
An ebike is a force multiplier. You can let it take the strain and lazy boi it, or you can wring its bloody neck and add its capacity to your own and achieve things that you can't with muscle, lungs and heart alone, or anything in between those two extremes.
Comments like the above really just highlight people trying to judge ebike riding from their known un-powered experience, but that's only half of it and they don't realise what they don't know. Most of us who try to explain get accused of being defensive or evangelists, so what to do?
Keep on having a great time and not worry about it, mostly. The curmudgeons and ignorant should probably do the same.
Taking the easy option is human nature. Whatever the personal reasons may be, it grates when someone who hasn't or can't put the effort in to elevate their fitness zooms by like I'm going backwards.
Comments like the above really just highlight people trying to judge ebike riding from their known un-powered experience, but that's only half of it and they don't realise what they don't know. Most of us who try to explain get accused of being defensive or evangelists, so what to do?
As in my post, I have ridden various ebikes. Perhaps you chose to overlook that in order to twist things around. Surely I don't need a receipt of ownership to have experience and formulate an opinion on the subject? (rhetorical question) It appears you missed the point of what I wrote anyway.
It's just a bog standard, steady, non-technical climb
Maybe on a push bike, but on an ebike, certainly the first half becomes a thing of thinking about where to brake going uphill, getting the right line around the corners, and getting the power down without spinning out. All equals more fun 😀
I think all bikes are fun, just some people feel determined to miss out on another layer of fun
I've got one finally because my Partner has one. Chasing her around the lakes and dales wasn't much fun to be honest.
Normal bikes for when I'm riding with the lads or on my own though.
The Ebike is bloody brilliant fun however. I got 30 miles and 5k climbing ride in last year when I hired one for the day. Normal bike would have been half that for the same time.
They are all bikes at the end of the day. CBA with all this partisan BS.
I trust the e bikers stating the foolishness of linking fitness with cycling will be fully embracing the coming integration of their minds with AI neutral networks from the comfort of their own brain suspended in a vat? 😉
'Maybe on a push bike, but on an ebike, certainly the first half becomes a thing of thinking about where to brake going uphill, getting the right line around the corners, and getting the power down without spinning out. All equals more fun'
You might as well just stop messing around trying to pretend it's a bike and buy a motorbike. The difference to a SurRon is entirely arbitrary.
Sat pondering about e-bikes and how far the technology might go. How about an e-bike with an integrated AI controlled exoskeleton? The exoskeleton would assist the rider with body position/weighting, negating any body resistance or lack of response by the rider to any other AI controlled balance or braking systems.
Electric bikes are really good in many ways. Quite a few of my riding mates have bought them for a variety of reasons; recovering from illness, injuries; or they plain just like the downs up the up. Although noticeably it's the riders who were always a bit less fit (and hence didn't enjoy the ups?) who have changed first. I'll be on an eMTB one day but I like the fitness (suffering?) of acoustic bikes. Also I like the simplicity of unassisted bikes. Just don't tell me that you get as much of a work out on a eMTB!
You might as well just stop messing around trying to pretend it's a bike and buy a motorbike. The difference to a SurRon is entirely arbitrary.
This perfectly illustrates my point on lack of knowledge.
A surron has 5x the torque and nearly 12x the peak power output of your typical ebike. Not even an AMflow with DJI comes faintly close to close to that.
Equating Sur-rons to ebikes just makes you look clueless.
“acoustic” Please don’t.
Seconded. Marketeers bullshine. No thanks.
The prejudice and judgemental attitudes on this thread are hilarious. I'm a biker, always have been and love to chat to others when out and about. Now I realise that a lot of you hate me for what I am doing when out on my ebike! Amazing how we get sucked into division and othering
The prejudice and judgemental attitudes on this thread are hilarious. I'm a biker, always have been and love to chat to others when out and about. Now I realise that a lot of you hate me for what I am doing when out on my ebike! Amazing how we get sucked into division and othering
Do you care though ? i was at Cwmcarn last week on Wed and my lad killed the battery on the Mondraker Dune XR at 1pm. So between 1 and 3pm i towed him up on his DH using my Rise and i charged the Dune using a petrol powered generator. I think i broke just about everything on STW by doing that.
The great news was, i had 98% battery on the Dune for riding trails near Dyfi the next day 😀
I couldn't give a monkeys what others think when i'm on the Eeb, i just ride and enjoy 🙂
The prejudice and judgemental attitudes on this thread are hilarious. I'm a biker, always have been and love to chat to others when out and about. Now I realise that a lot of you hate me for what I am doing when out on my ebike! Amazing how we get sucked into division and othering
Is it necessary to go off the deep end like this? It appears to just be you using the word "hate". I can't imagine it's a surprise to learn ebikes aren't universally loved by everyone.
You might as well just stop messing around trying to pretend it's a bike and buy a motorbike. The difference to a SurRon is entirely arbitrary.
😂😂😂
Oh the ignorance!
😂😂😂
Whilst I concede that a Sur-Ron is by definition, an electrically powered motorbike... As a keen motorcyclist, a Sur-Ron is to motorcycling what a £200 Halfords special "ATB" with "dual suspension", weight to rival that of most eBikes and completely unsuitable geometry and components for off road, is to Mountain Biking...
One of my motorbikes has 160bhp, or 120KW if we're working in metric... My Bosch powered eBike can give as much as 600W of power boost on top of whatever I put in (not that I ever ride in Turbo mode anyway)... So my motorbike is 200x more powerful than my eMTB!
I will say this now, just once, so pay attention... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!
Aside from the fact I can't ride my motorbikes where I often ride MTB's, they are absolute chalk and cheese to ride. OK so some of the latest eBike motors are now starting to more than double what the typical rider can put out at peak power in their turbo modes which arguably is getting away from the original point of them in some way, but the way I see an eMTB is that basically it's like you're always having a good day power/fitness wise and hence they can be a great leveller. More's the point, those decrying "It's easier, stop kidding yourself" aren't getting it either... Yes, I KNOW it's easier... That's why I'm typically doing twice the mileage and climbing on an eMTB as I would on a conventional unassisted MTB for reference. And for me, more miles = more smiles... Jameso has it completely right that largely MTB has come from "ride culture" rather than "pedal culture"... If you enjoy suffering to the point that you're not happy unless you're grimacing on a climb, then I know thousands of miserable roadies (I know a few nice ones too, but not many!) that will recite Rule 5 to you ad infinitum in their defence that cycling is about suffering, NOT having fun...
I wholeheartedly agree!
The issue is that you and I are amongst a small percentage of moderates, happy to embrace difference and diversity, amongst a sea of angry people that NEED to feel part of a partisan group as it defines their identity... For reference, as a keen motorcyclist too, motorcyclists on the whole are far worse than any cyclists when it comes to finding differences to argue about. What's even worse is that the mere hint of a discussion about cycling (MTB or road) in a group of motorcyclists (often mostly middle aged white men, as most enthusiast cyclists are too) will leave them foaming at the mouth in entitlement, claims of "not paying road tax" and worse... I've had to listen to someone I thought was a friend, go on about cyclists being scum and how they should all be shot, as for some reason he believes that his identity as a motorcyclist is somehow undermined by other road users on a 2 wheeled form of transport that you pedal rather than twist a throttle on...
People are ****ing weird!!!
Buy the bike... Enjoy riding the bike... Be a dick about it on the internet if you have to be! But don't expect everybody to share your own unique take on things or you'll end up pretty lonely in your world filled of hate and vitriol for others!
In a kind of perverse way, I suppose I like it if someone doesn't like my choice of bike and openly shows it. I can then think to myself '****' and carry on enjoying my riding.
In real life though I don't really encounter much negativity, just on here mostly....
Just to add, anecdotally - the riding group I go out with sometimes, fit virtually none of the stereotypes mentioned most frequently in this thread. They resisted ebikes for a good few years whilst I was riding one. The majority of them are super fit younger than me lads who would leave me for dead - they've now adopted ebikes for laps at Black Rocks in Cromford or Win Hill in the Peak. And still eclipse my riding abilities 😭😂
Don't want an e bike but the folks in finding myself riding with all have them and it can feel awkward. Then again I don't want to have to buy one to keep up with them.
It's the obsolescence that turns me off, I see the future of new/better motors with recent models just being ditched so riders can have the newest motor etc. whereas, barring a few odd standards, I can still fix and ride my 6yr old starling easily at home.
