from J-tech a few years back, when I was having similar issues (you use the same ‘band’ spacers):
Do you know that you can put the spacers in the negative chamber also, to reduce the volume to that of a standard can? Chances are that the compression damping tune is too soft for your weight, so your best approach is to get that sorted first – it’s the lack of damping that causes ‘blow through’ more than the air spring curve. In fact the Debonair spring curve gives a higher spring rate through the middle of the travel than the standard can, relative to the spring rate at the start and end of the travel.
Cheers mate I might give J tech a call.
Try this *edited
Ah ok, thats a megneg can which mine doesnt have and I cant see any other way of adding neg air spacers?
I did look into the meg neg but apparently it requires even more air in the shock to start with and as Im getting close to the max air pressure i discounted it.
I've used a MegNeg on a SuperDeluxe, it does indeed increase the air pressure needed by around 15-20%, so if you're near the top limit already I would avoid it.
Personally, I would send it off to TF-Tuned who will set it up to work however you want. I've never been disappointed with any work they've done on forks or shocks.
Personally, I would send it off to TF-Tuned who will set it up to work however you want. I’ve never been disappointed with any work they’ve done on forks or shocks.
Part of the reason I looked at selling the bike is due to a conversation I had with TFtuned.
Basically I could have it retuned but for my weight it would make a clunk noise and still not fully cure the symptoms I have. Something to do with the suspension kinematics of the bike.
One option was to wait a few months and buy one of the new 2022 Fox DPX or DPS air shocks and have that custom tuned by TFtuned but thats going to be circa £700.
I was looking to sell and buy an Orbea Wild FS with are a bit plusher tuned, however Weeksy has kindly offered a loan of his shockwiz so Im going to try that first I think to see if it helps.
I did try and remove the aircan to see about volume spacers but couldnt get it off yesterday so will try when I get a strap wrench tomorrow.
I was looking to sell and buy an Orbea Wild FS with are a bit plusher tuned
not sure about that - the whyte and the orbea both have fairly progressive linkages, Probably not much in it between the two in terms of that.
I've got a wild fs though, its nice. But then the whyte looks good too.
Part of the reason I looked at selling the bike is due to a conversation I had with TFtuned.
Basically I could have it retuned but for my weight it would make a clunk noise and still not fully cure the symptoms I have. Something to do with the suspension kinematics of the bike.
One option was to wait a few months and buy one of the new 2022 Fox DPX or DPS air shocks and have that custom tuned by TFtuned but thats going to be circa £700.
You should be able to pick up a used Fox DPX2 (it's much better than the DPS in my experience).
Looking at the leverage ratios for the E150, I really don’t see a problem with it for you. The Orbea Wild has a 65mm shock rather than a 55, which would help as a heavier rider but it has 43% progression vs the Whyte’s 31% so you’ll have even more trouble getting to full travel.
You’re only 115kg, so you and the bike are about 130kg sprung weight. That’s about 25% more than me but it’s not way out from what a large ebike is made for.
Regarding blowing through the travel going off a kerb, why is this a problem? You don’t want a bike that collapses when you pump but a bike that squishes down when you pump a turn is rather nice - it’s not like when a fork blows through the travel and makes the geometry all steep and nervous.
You mention 20% sag being too harsh and 30% too soft. I don’t understand why you’re swinging between such extreme ranges? Change the pressure 5-10psi at a time, equalise the negative chamber and then ride it.
On my Levo I’d been running 30% fork sag and 37% shock, on a Lyrik RC2 Charger 2 and a Deluxe RT (think that’s called Deluxe Select RT now). I’ve just had them serviced and am at about 25% sag with a Charger 2.1 damper (upgraded due to leak) and 35% sag with the shock stroke increased from 52.5 to 55mm and a volume spacers removed.
I’ve been taking a long way home to set things up these last two days and small changes make a big difference. The fork was diving way too much at 30% sag and LSC and HSC in the middle, but leaving about 50mm of unused travel. This morning I increased the pressure by about 10%, reducing the sag to 25% ish, added some clicks of LSC and fully opened the HSC. Result: No diving, firmer and more responsive when I pump or preload, only ~20mm travel left after riding the same trails (a bit faster).
I realise that with this shock you can’t change the compression without having it tuned but I think this shows how small changes can make a big difference.
Take out all the volume spacers, add some air, and go ride it! Don’t fall into the selling and buying trap again, it’s just a massive waste of money and time. Keep persevering, it’s a good bike.
One thing to bear in mind if the air shock won’t behave as you want - the Whyte has a very low BB. This means you can run less sag and it still feel great. It also has quite a lot of linkage progression. Both of these bode well for swapping to a coil spring.
Hi Chief.
Are you looking at the right E150.
Mine is the 29er version with 50mm shock travel.
The problem I have is that it has no mid stroke support hence the blowing through its travel but then ramps right up at the end.
I also don't feel comfortable standing up and pedalling as it's just wallowing a lot.
Since upgrading the fork to a charger 2.1 rc2 it's showing how poor the rear shock is.
I am going to try taking out any volume spacers tomorrow when my new strap wrench comes and go from there.
My mate who has the rs version of the bike with the same shock has no issues with it at all. He is 35kg lighter than me though.
The problem I have is that it has no mid stroke support hence the blowing through its travel but then ramps right up at the end.
That behaviour is very symptomatic of too many spacers, you may have no spacers, but it's deffo worth checking before doing anything else.
That behaviour is very symptomatic of too many spacers, you may have no spacers, but it’s deffo worth checking before doing anything else.
Do you mean volume spacers ?
I'm hoping to get the can opened tomorrow and see. Is it worth removing anything that is in there or just one at a time ?
You may be right, Whyte have done a very good job of confusingly naming their ebikes. I shouldn’t be surprised as their 27.5 hardtails are all called 9**!
Let us know how it feels with the volume spacers out and more pressure. Small increments when adjusting and testing!
Do you mean volume spacers ?
Yes, I'd remove the lot and start from there
Ok,
So I just wanted to give an update on how Im getting on since I last posted.
Weeksy very kindly lent me his shockwiz which I have had set up on my fork for the past week setting that up. On the first ride I did a 3 mile loop to start with of various terrain doing climbing, descending etc. When I first checked the wix it said all I had to change was add some LSC which I did then went out and done the same 3 mile loop again to compare. The fork felt loads better and I had less hand soreness. However.. When I checked the wiz again it wanted more air pressure, more volume spacers etc etc. Cut a long story short Ive been tinkering all week and got the fork in a very good place.
Rear shock wise Ive not done much... There was one spacer in it that I removed and Ive also dropped pressure to just over 30% sag. To be fair it feels a little better but not great and Ive noticed that there is more and more oil appearing on the shock stanchion so I think its dying.
Im in a bit of a predicament now with the bike: I have been offered good money for the bike but that would leave me bikeless as there is no stock anywhere of anything that Im looking at and no forecast of when they are due in.
The other option is to fit a different rear shock, Ive had a good conversation with J tech and they have suggested a Cane Creek DB air CS tuned for my weight. Yes the initial cost is high but if it means I keep the bike then I feel it would be money wells pent.
Apart from the rear shock the bike feels and ride phenomenal, Im hitting Pr's on Strava the more Im riding it.
Decisions...........
The Cane Creek DB air was also on my list recently, but i've stuck with what i have on there and it's working fine at the moment.
I guess the question is, what would you replace it with and why ? Something with a better rear shock curve ?
I guess the question is, what would you replace it with and why ? Something with a better rear shock curve ?
I was looking to replace it with something with more rear travel. The E150 is meant to have 140mm rear travel but tests have measured it at more like 134mm
The bikes Im looking at are the Orbea Wild fs (160mm F/R) YT Decoy 29er, Focus Sam or Jam, Merida e160.
Orbea Wild fs (160mm F/R)
MAte on here Couchy had a Wild FS with some new RS forks, i think they're 35s, they're were absolutely AWFUL ! We couldn't get them to work no matter what, either too soft or too harsh, had no compression to speak of and pogo'd like crazy, i rode it at FoD and wanted to throw it in a hedge.
MAte on here Couchy had a Wild FS with some new RS forks, i think they’re 35s, they’re were absolutely AWFUL ! We couldn’t get them to work no matter what, either too soft or too harsh, had no compression to speak of and pogo’d like crazy, i rode it at FoD and wanted to throw it in a hedge.
The one Im looking at has fox 38 forks and fox dps or dpx shock
MAte on here Couchy had a Wild FS with some new RS forks, i think they’re 35s, they’re were absolutely AWFUL ! We couldn’t get them to work no matter what, either too soft or too harsh, had no compression to speak of and pogo’d like crazy, i rode it at FoD and wanted to throw it in a hedge.
yeah, the RS 35's are pretty poor, they come as standard on the lowest spec wild fs, its worth going up a model or two in the range just to get a better fork. I think the 35's are rockshox entry level fork. They were obviously specced by orbea to hit a low price point.
My wild fs has a fox 36 factory fork , which is decent as you'd expect.
Could be you just disturbed some of the lubricating oil when you had it apart, wipe it off and see how it goes. Also check you haven’t tucked the wiper seal when putting it back on.
Not being rude (chunky myself) but at your weight you will be pushing the limits of the shock on any bike you swap to. Bikes come tuned for a 70-80 kg rider. Once over 95kg they all really need a reshim. I’m usually on the cusp of maxing out the adjustments on any bike, but make it work until first service when I get them done.
Had a DB air on my bike last time I went to a Whistler and it was amazing. Loads of adjustment that you can actually feel. E150 is an amazing bike, would be great with one of those on it.
Had a DB air on my bike last time I went to a Whistler and it was amazing. Loads of adjustment that you can actually feel. E150 is an amazing bike, would be great with one of those on it.
Fingers crossed it will be !!
@Renton, I've had my e-150 rs 2021 for 2 weeks and have ridden it all over the tweed valley. There is no wallowing or difficulty with the rear shock and the bike rides incredibly well. I'm 105kg inc gear so not far from you. It sounds like a fundamental problem with the shock. If anything the bike doesn't seem as sensitive to suspension setup as my megatower. I'm riding the Whyte with 35% sag.
@Renton, I’ve had my e-150 rs 2021 for 2 weeks and have ridden it all over the tweed valley. There is no wallowing or difficulty with the rear shock and the bike rides incredibly well. I’m 105kg inc gear so not far from you. It sounds like a fundamental problem with the shock. If anything the bike doesn’t seem as sensitive to suspension setup as my megatower. I’m riding the Whyte with 35% sag.
Good to know. It will be interesting to see how it performs with the CCDB on it. Im 120kgs with gear btw
How are you finding the bike overall. I think its great to be honest.
It's awesome! Slightly unwieldy in tight turns but so planted it makes up for it everywhere else. Only criticism is the slightly slack seat tube that makes very steep climbs more challenging. But both ups and downs are grin-inducing 😁
Slightly unwieldy in tight turns but so planted it makes up for it everywhere else
This x 1000%
Its a bit of a handful on tight and twisty trails but elsewhere its so stable and planted.
My mate has the RS model and he absolutely flies on it but then he is about 35 kgs lighter than me !!
Sadly those 35kgs woukd also help me 🙄😂
“that would leave me bikeless as there is no stock anywhere of anything that Im looking at and no forecast of when they are due in.
The other option is to fit a different rear shock, Ive had a good conversation with J tech and they have suggested a Cane Creek DB air CS tuned for my weight.”
If you have no bike to ride then you’re likely to lose any fitness you’ve been gaining since riding the Whyte regularly.
The big DB air is a great shock - only complaint tends to be that it’s inherently more damped feeling than single tube shocks - but that’s ideal for a heavier rider. And with the four damping knobs you can adjust it to suit you properly. It also runs lower pressure than a lot of air shocks.
134mm of rear travel is plenty on a 29” bike, unless you’re planning to race enduro or ride extremely gnarly trails very fast.
