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Its a race disguised to not be one legally so as to avoid insurance / roads policing issues
tjagain - Member
Its a race disguised to not be one legally so as to avoid insurance / roads policing issues
i've done proper road races and i've done sportives, sportives are not in any way races, no matter what the people who treat them as such might think
If you come up with a definition of a race then you can see if any Sportives measure up to it.mrjmt - Member
So can we just confirm, are sportives races then?
IMO a Sportive is a race in the same way that the London Marathon is a race.
If you come up with a definition of a race then you can see if any Sportives measure up to it.
someone wins?
I'll pay good money to the first person to stand in front of Lee Craigie and tell her she didn't win the Etape Loch Ness Sportive.
She didn't win.. it wasn't a race
Plus extra barreries if needed
Great plan Scooby!!
I can't understand why a perfectly able-bodied person would want to take part in something that's about a physical challenge if they're not physically challenging themselves?
They probably wear roller blades on treadmills too 😀
IMO a Sportive is a race in the same way that the London Marathon is a race.
So a race then.
Yes
No.
🙂
If you want to race, go and race.
If you want to pretend a sportive is a race then that's ok too.
We all have fantasies.
Sportive as a race, you guys are having a laugh.
f you want to race, go and race.If you want to pretend a sportive is a race then that's ok too.
We all have fantasies.
Races come in all shapes and sizes, not sure why thats so hard to understand ?
A Sportive that's a race is a Gran Fondo.
fifeandy - MemberSportive as a race, you guys are having a laugh.
Gutted that I can't find the photo of the guying "winning" Ride London this year and throwing the ones up as he crosses the line 😀
Did a charity ride on one, Cube FS with slick tyres on it. Was coming back from injury so off the bike, no way I was fit enough at the time. Was pretty close to driving up to have the night out after with my mates (there's a crowd every year with a stop over).
Ended up hanging on to the group in the flat sections @ over 15.5mph and using the lowest assistance mode on the hills to keep me in touch. It was the difference between doing the event and not.
Unless the rider is seriously fit in the first place the battery life is only going to offer a little assistance on the hills and the rest of the time they'll be over the speed where the motor cuts out. Even with a chipped one the battery life would have a hard time to assist a rider all the way round a 60+ mile ride.
on an open road one there's nothing to stop any Tom, Dick, or Harriet from riding the same route at the same time on any road legal machine they want
Depending on the type of road closure order applied for, there may be no legit way to stop anyone just riding the route when it's on "closed" roads.
An Act of Parliament as used by the Jim Clark and Mull motor rallies (when they ran) means the road is absolutely closed; likewise the road closures used on the Isle of Man. In those cases they are not public roads for the duration of the closure, and in particular on the isle of man they will jail you for breeching that in anyway (including walking on it during the closure). The signs put up are quire blunt about it.
A normal local council road closure only restricts the classes of vehicle that can use the road, so they aren't actually road closures, just restrictions, this also means the road traffic act is not suspended, so you could still be done for an RTA offence such as careless/dangerous riding even if the road has been temporarily restricted to "cycles" (not sure of the class) and designated one way if a police officer or other reasonable person sees you as riding as such.
There's also the new type of closure available in England (and Wales?) that is a full closure and suspension of the RTA available to local authorities.
If the RTA is suspended then the pedal assist needn't stop at 15.5mph as you're not covered by it and associated acts. Although the ACU as the government authorizer of Motorbike sport might take an interest in unsanctioned racing.
Had a shot on an E-MTB with "27.5Plus" tyres. Total hoot, only got 36Km out of it, heart rate never got out of zone one, and averaged 15mph;
Nearly spoilt all the strava segments I use to see how I'm doing though, thankfully I spotted the e-bike category in there.
On sportives, hm, depends on the sportive.
the more serious ones, at least have a gap, not so much for the people on eBikes but I can see a fuss being made when a group puts an ebike on the front to draft.
Then again when I did the Etape Loch Ness a few years ago, a good few people thanked me at the end for the tow I gave them along to fort Augustus; so maybe putting the fat boy with loads of leg power on the front is just as bad.
hen again when I did the Etape Loch Ness a few years ago, a good few people thanked me at the end for the tow I gave them along to fort Augustus; so maybe putting the fat boy with loads of leg power on the front is just as bad.
Can relate to this, being 105kg but able to ride 500km in a day, the number of times especially on windy events, i'll look round to find a long line of skinny people "taking shelter" behind me, then as soon as the road turns upwards they all come round me and disappear.... been called "tractor", "perkins" and "windbreak" as nicknames as they've come past!
I often refer to sportives as races. Mainly it's the fun of sitting back and waiting for the faux-outrage "well I'm a proper racer and I can assure you these sportive things are not races" brigade to get all worked up.
I'm interested to know if e-bikes are also creeping into Audaxes. They're not races either, but they are pretty competitive.
Kenny - I suspect the naysayers are the same folk who think that the Rules of the Velominati are for real.
Had a shot on an E-MTB with "27.5Plus" tyres. Total hoot, only got 36Km out of it, heart rate never got out of zone one, and averaged 15mph
On the flip side of this, I went out with a group much, much faster than me last night. I used as little assist as possible to keep up and absolutely buried myself the whole ride. Was totally knackered at the end but kept in with a group on a night ride feeling a lot safer and tackling more technical routes than the gentle ride I'd have had on my own. If they'd have been slower I'd have taken my normal bike out of the van.
Kenny - I suspect the naysayers are the same folk who think that the Rules of the Velominati are for real.
Indeed, though I have to admit my sportive/summer/nice bike has the tyres lined up properly with the valves, I always have my glasses outside my helmet straps and quote Rule 5 quite frequently, though mainly at myself it has to be said.
I do find it funny though that something like the Etape du Tour, which has some of the best amateur riders on the continent isn't technically a race, whereas myself and a few mates seeing who is the fastest from the bottom of the Arthur's Seat climb to the top (I once came third out of sixth; sadly in many ways the pinnacle of my bike racing career) is, if you go by the dictionary definition.
Suspect it's up to the organisers whether or not to allow e-bikes.
If they're sensible they'll provide some kind of distinction in the results. Whether you view a sportive as a race or not, folk are often trying to get the best time they can and compare it against others. If I were running a sportive it would be in my interests to keep these folk happy by making sure their times are as meaningful as possible in context.
Etape du Tour is a race. Sportives on the Continent are often proper races, however, they generally aren't in the UK.
The Sportives I've done in the UK are nothing like a race. That's not to say having a nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill isn't without it merits, but it isn't a race.
If they're sensible they'll provide some kind of distinction in the results
That assumes people declare being on an e-bike on the entry form....
That's not to say having a nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill isn't without it merits, but it isn't a race.
Oh I'd love to see you say that to someone like Rob Jebb just after he's recorded another fastest time at the Fred Whitton.
Of course they aren't technically races though. Would cost the organisers far too much money, and effort, to have them categorised as such. Doesn't mean people aren't trying to ride faster than others, just for a bit of fun. Like if a proper pro racer was to take part in say a Cat 1 race. Wouldn't be a proper race to him, just a bit of a laugh.
Sportives are what you want them to be. For me it's often seeing if I can get a faster time than a few other mates. Other times (like the Fred) it's a personal challenge to see if I can finish.
Another thing that often strikes me as strange. Sportives attract a lot of sniffy "oh they aren't races" comments from "proper" riders.
However I never see sportive riders (who've often done events like the Etape or the Fred) look at Cat 1/2/3/4 races and say "pah, call that a tough route".
What's a 'proper' rider then?
However I never see sportive riders (who've often done events like the Etape or the Fred) look at Cat 1/2/3/4 races and say "pah, call that a tough route".
Possibly because they realise that Cat1/2/3/4 races are less about the route and more about ripping your fellow competitor to pieces?
What's a 'proper' rider then?
In this context someone who's done a couple of cat4 crit's, somehow not been blown out the back and now consider themselves racing gods, far above lowly sportive prolls 😉
Possibly because they realise that Cat1/2/3/4 races are less about the route and more about ripping your fellow competitor to pieces?
I do know that, I was just partly being cheeky and partly responding to that
remark.nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill
I've no desire (or ability) to race myself, but (despite my remarks) I have a huge amount of admiration for those who do, both pro and amateur. It's just the attitudes of some I can't be bothered with.
I recall watching Chris Hoy winning a keirin at the Olympics one year and thinking, "this is pish, any charlatan can ride on nice smooth planks of wood, this guy needs to test himself on the Monster Hell Of The Quite Nasty Hill At The Back Of The Village route" and then making a nice cup of tea in an Assos mug. I felt pretty good that day, let me tell you.
When you've done a 2/3 road race of 60 miles with an average speed of 27mph and attacks going off every few minutes then a mixed bunch of 'Sunday' riders, straggled all over the place and stopping every 20 miles for a feed zone break all seems a bit tame.
However these things can be raced in a sense and as a competitive sort I would ride as fast as possible if I did them.
As for e-bikes, apart from medical reasons I despise the modern trend to try make life easier all the time. My joy of riding comes from the fact it's hard and I have to work to get better at it. I'd generally regard an e-biker at a sportive as a bit of an idiot with more money than guts.
Doesn't really come onto my radar though as proper racing has loads of rules and the only e-biker I've come across was whilst training at Swinley and I enjoyed giving chase and trying to keep up.
I recall watching Chris Hoy winning a keirin at the Olympics one year and thinking, "this is pish, any charlatan can ride on nice smooth planks of wood,
I know what you mean. Like that Adam Peaty bloke that thinks he's special just 'cos he can swim 100m. When I was in primary school I retrieved a brick from the bottom of the deep end. And I was in my pyjamas!!
Oh I'd love to see you say that to someone like Rob Jebb just after he's recorded another fastest time at the Fred Whitton.
Quite happy to take that challenge - This is the same Rob Jebb who's raced at elite world championship level, remember, not some 2nd cat chopper! I very much doubt that he sees the Fred Whitton as anything other than a hard training ride for personal satisfaction.
3 pages eh, silly question to start a thread IMO.. let em’ in..
Put them up front all day like this (first hand full of riders say) then all the manually propelled form a neat group behind.. think of it like old school Durney trackies..
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Or just let them in because they want to get out and have some outside riding fun in an organised event.
Honestly, what are your problems with eBikes ?
Honestly, what are your problems with eBikes ?
Some people genuinely buy into the concept that the value in cycling is that it's a wholly human powered activity. Also that there are values and traditions relating to cycling that have been passed down through generations, and are something to be treasured and preserved. In this day and age other opinions exist, so its good to discuss them, perhaps on a cycling forum maybe ?
Nah, it’s all about transportation and pushing oneself to some degree.
eBikes allow the same principles to those notions, but opens up the less fit/infirm/health deficiency or can’t be bothered to get fit types to ride around in a group (or not)
Best thing that could happen to society IMO.
Sorry bikebouy your only looking at things from your own perspective. To many cycling is far more than just transport and/or fitness. Ebikes and them being considered bicycles is probably the biggest change in cycling since its invention. Your perfectly entitled to your views but at least try and understand how others might feel about this subject.
If that's the case then the "many" need to take a long hard look at themselves if others on ebikes somewhat lesson their personal enjoyment,
Also that there are values and traditions relating to cycling that have been passed down through generations, and are something to be treasured and preserved.
Which ones?
Serious question.
Lying about taking PEDs is obviously one.
Honestly, what are your problems with eBikes ?
Ask this guy 😉
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eBikes allow the same principles to those notions, but opens up the less fit/infirm/health deficiency or can’t be bothered to get fit types to ride around in a group (or not)
Quite a bit of this for me. Having been on rides with friends on ebikes, who otherwise would probably not be out riding, I've no problem with them. Quite good fun trying to keep up on the hills!
Ebikes and sportives, up to the organisers I guess, don't see a problem with it myself but then I don't ride sportives 😉
Some people genuinely buy into the concept that the value in cycling is that it's a wholly human powered activity. Also that there are values and traditions relating to cycling that have been passed down through generations, and are something to be treasured and preserved. In this day and age other opinions exist, so its good to discuss them, perhaps on a cycling forum maybe ?
Motivational speaker Simon Sinek did a good talk on Millenials. In this he explains how a whole generation has grown up with a sense of entitlement. They have been told they can everything they want in life. They have become so used to having instant gratification that they stand at the foot of the mountain looking at the summit and say to themselves “I want to be at the top of that mountain” But they’re so focused on the summit, that they don’t see the rest of the mountain, or the journey involved to get there. They just instantly want to be at the summit without putting in the effort to reach the top.
E-bikes reflect this concept perfectly..
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That doesn't explain why they're mostly bought by the middle aged and elderly.