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Suspension helps you to make the most of the power that you are able to produce
And also causes more trail erosion...
Growing up riding MX in the 70's and 80's proved that to most people.
Moar travel moar bumps...
I've been around riding off road long enough to recognise that anything "new" has it's haters and doom merchants.
Suspension, discs, wheel sizes same old same old from people that are scared of change.
No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want.
Don't like something easy don't buy it.
you m8's had a kenevo spare sitting around? I've got the wrong m8's! 😉
I've just got a Vitus E-Sommet as a replacement for a bust out of the box sale Ghost kato e-bike, & am having a whole load of fun, instead of slogging around struggling on my manual HT. I have no 'excuse', I probably wouldn't have bought one yet but have a group of new riding m8's* who started cycling (or renewed an interest) because e-bikes allowed them to. These are guys at an age where gaining the cycling fitness would have been simply off-putting with family/life commitments, but are bouncing around asking about the next ride or which bit of kit to buy.
So I've tested a bunch over that last year myself & come to the simple conclusion, e-bikes are fun, & bought one.
*my new e-bike group all have decent off-road m/c backgrounds, if e-bikes were just motorcycles, these guys wouldnt be putting up with the limited power.
I think the past above sums up the problem of eBikes, m8.
^ exactly.
i think there are two types of ebike riders....
1) people with medical and/or physical problems that need a bit of an assist. My neighbour Jim for example. He's 70 now, keen cyclist all his life but has developed a heart condition and can't let his HR go above about 150bpm.
2) arseholes.
Why, do you think ppl are only allowed to ride if they suffering, or your not interested in allowing people who wouldnt otherwise to get out enjoying the countryside & have some harmless fun? Yet I'm the #2?
It’s almost worth getting one just to annoy people like you.
No, I'm not annoyed at all 😉
Just bit of light Sunday evening ebiker trolling.
still wouldn't be seen dead on one though.
zippy - see point 1, covers your question I think.
Really doesn't, but whatever
I think it must be the lack of exercise that makes all you ebike owners so tetchy.
I’m fit and able, good standard Enduro rider..e-bikes are just such a grin. Surely I don’t have to be disabled to ride one? It’s just another way to ride bikes..what we all love eh?
.
Enjoying the outdoors under your own steam is, for me, the point of going cycling. Technical climbs and my own physical limitations are as much a part of it as anything else. That's why I ride a rigid bike, often singlespeed, I take tools and first-aid too such that I can be as self-reliant as possible.
I'm very happy to acknowledge e-bikes as a great tool for making that accessible to the old/injured/infirm and an increase in trail wear and tear is a price we pay. The proliferation amongst particular kinds of rider however is worrying.
One issue for me is shared by many long-travel full-suspension bikes, the technology allows people to get far enough out of their depth that the consequences are much more serious than they are prepared to accept. Speeds are higher so we are more intimidating and crashes are more violent. The unfit and inexperienced are further from help/home without the navigational, mechanical and physical resource to self-rescue.
The second issue is the creep toward lightweight motorbikes and the inevitable access difficulties that may cause the rest of us. Arguments pointing toward the damage that motorbikes cause on trails are already common in these debates.
If you need one, buy it and use responsibly. enjoy.
If you are new, please take time to develop skills/fitness, why not stick to the trail centres? They're fun and there're usually people around to peel you off trees/call the ambulance/fix your chain
If your interest is in de-restricted ragging around then please, please, go do it in a private woodland or stick to the green lanes/rupps. Don't ruin it for all.
GeForce Junky are you still running stock tyres?
I can highly recommend the Maxxis DHR 2 27.5 x 2.8, I prefer them to the 29er Michelin Wild Mud tyres.
The only problem so far; the Lakes District eats plus tyres for breakfast
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"If your interest is in de-restricted ragging around then please, please, go do it in a private woodland or stick to the green lanes/rupps. Don’t ruin it for all."
Well put ontor, but it'll fall on deaf ears ☹
Enjoying the outdoors under your own steam is, for me, the point of going cycling
That nice for you, and your point is caller?
One issue for me is shared by many long-travel full-suspension bikes, the technology allows people to get far enough out of their depth that the consequences are much more serious than they are prepared to accep
So your advocating a blanket ban on all long travel bikes? (e-bike or otherwise)
The second issue is the creep toward lightweight motorbikes and the inevitable access difficulties that may cause the rest of us. Arguments pointing toward the damage that motorbikes cause on trails are already common in these debates.
An argument repeated by the anti-ebike mongers, which has no bases in reality. E-bike are only ever going to get lighter, more toward normal mtb's not the other way round.
Also if you ever ridden a m/c and an e-bike you would see there is no comparison.
Are you being purposefully obtuse (look it up, it might be your new word for the day)?
His point is that cycling is about the combination of man and machine working in harmony, along with some sweat and effort, to reach your end point.
Add a motor into the equation and the machinery starts to take over.
There are so few pursuits these days where we actually have to work to see a result.
If I were in charge (unlikely to happen, but you never know) there would be a mandatory 12 month period for new MTBers where they would have to ride a rigid SS bike to gain the appropriate skills. Once they passed a test they could then ride whatever they liked 😉
Still trolling eh?
Again what is the point of your comment?
Other than your dislike of them, there is nothing constructive in your/his objections... oh my god the machines are taking over, did Maximum Overdrive scare you silly?
I'll be looking for a new MTB soon, I've got a fat bike and a hard tail XC bike, so would like something with a decent fork and strength to just do downhill, jumps and trail stuff in the local woods.
I'm struggling to see why I wouldn't buy an Ebike for this, other than the increased cost over a similar spec standard bike.
Then again, I really like the look of the new Flare Max or BFE. 🙂
i think there are two types of ebike riders….
1) people with medical and/or physical problems that need a bit of an assist. My neighbour Jim for example. He’s 70 now, keen cyclist all his life but has developed a heart condition and can’t let his HR go above about 150bpm.
2) arseholes
i think there is one type of ajantom
1) arsehole
So your advocating a blanket ban on all long travel bikes? (e-bike or otherwise)
No I don't want anything banned. I just said it was worrying and that I hope people are cautious enough to not severely injure themselves by letting the machine get them into trouble. It's a bit like learning to ride a motorbike on something other than a 600cc+ beast.
The second issue is the creep toward lightweight motorbikes and the inevitable access difficulties that may cause the rest of us. Arguments pointing toward the damage that motorbikes cause on trails are already common in these debates.
An argument repeated by the anti-ebike mongers, which has no bases in reality. E-bike are only ever going to get lighter, more toward normal mtb’s not the other way round.
Also if you ever ridden a m/c and an e-bike you would see there is no comparison.
I have ridden both, but that's irrelevant. There will be an evolution but the bias will likely be toward more power and longer run times rather than lower weight. The whole point is to work less hard for your speed/thrill isn't it?
The significant access issue is that anything with a motor will be mentally categorised with motorbikes by the uneducated majority. Cyclists and e-bikers are not, for the most part, those with a significant say in controlling access. Because the e-bikes will be hard to spot there is the potential for restrictions to be blanket in their application.
Ajantom puts it perfectly:
His point is that cycling is about the combination of man and machine working in harmony, along with some sweat and effort, to reach your end point
Add a motor into the equation and the machinery starts to take over.
Which is exactly why I was expressing a concern that comes about because of stuff like this:
I can’t keep up with them on pedal power alone (despite me be pretty fit). And now i’m hearing all sorts of stuff about them de-restricting and modifying their bikes (because “last week Dave was much faster than me” etc etc they already have bought 2 spare batteries each so they can do more “laps”)
which seems intrinsically linked to e-bikes.
Again what is the point of your comment?Other than your dislike of them, there is nothing constructive in your/his objections… oh my god the machines are taking over, did Maximum Overdrive scare you silly?
No, actually quite serious. Maybe not the mandatory rigid bike but, but it wouldn't hurt.
Take a look at most of the best bike riders about, especially your big air/trick specialists. The majority of them started out on bmxs or dirt jump bikes, either fully rigid or with short travel forks. Look at slopestyle contests - many riders still using hardtails (or very short travel full sus bikes) - they are riding stuff way beyond 99.9% of us here could.
Why? They have skills, not a 180mm skill compensator.
Chuck a beginner on a modern enduro bike and yes, they'll be able to ride most things, but they're more likely to spanner themselves and the trails in the process.
Now ignoring those who use an ebike out of necessity, then adding a motor to a big full sus bike is just an extension of the problem.
Ride what you like. It really won't matter to me. But also expect to have the piss mercilessly ripped if you do.
@ Lester. I'm actually really lovely in person 😘
im sure you are, so am i but i dont completely fit in your category 1 so according to your logic lol.
i have a few bikes and one of them is an ebike,
What i take issue with, is people having an uninformed opinion.
I reckon 90% of the people on e-bikes here on singletrack are your average mountain bikers,like you are at the moment.
I can only recall one person who has an ebike having anything but praise for them, few of these same people use an ebike as their only bike. So they have an informed opinion on having an ebike. Fair enough if people want to argue against e-bikes,for a variety of reasons, but why would anyone take any notice of the uninformed?
ill be riding my non e bike 3 times this week, and possibly my e-bike for a longer ride at the weekend.
@ajantom
If I were in charge (unlikely to happen, but you never know) there would be a mandatory 12 month period for new MTBers where they would have to ride a rigid SS bike to gain the appropriate skills. Once they passed a test they could then ride whatever they liked 😉
the best rider i know, does not come from that back ground, and he is the person who told me i needed to try one, and get one.
I didn't say all, just many.
Some very good riders from MX backgrounds too....Gwin was an MXer wasn't he?
I used to love green laning on my old Honda XR250.
On the other hand I enjoy riding long distance under my own steam - hopefully doing a 40ish mile XC ride tomorrow. I like 'the burn'! That is IMO part of what cycling is about.
Yes, I've heard the 'but it's still hard work on an ebike, I sweat and everything, it just let's me go further and do more DH runs.'
Well do you know what, just go a but less far, but have the satisfaction of knowing it was all you. And get fitter. Then go further.
Ride what you like. It really won’t matter to me
And yet you keep post about it and trying to tell people what and how they should ride.😚
Sitting at home with a sicky 4 year old and a vacuum cleaner of a 6 month old. Need to do something between feeding one and clearing up after the other 😉
I'll wander away from this thread now.
if you had an e bike, you could go out later and do twice as many miles in the same time to relax from dad duties
I'd rather do half the miles and not feel like I'm cheating.
" you had an e bike, you could go out later and do twice as many miles in the same time."
Never felt twice the miles equals twice the enjoyment. I've got vehicles with engines for that.......hang on a minute 😉
not feel like I’m cheating.
I wasn't aware there were any rules to just going out for a ride.🤔
Ok I'll clarify, cheating myself. Though I suspect you know quite well what I meant 🍩
Yep it's clear that you think people you don't know should for some odd reason stick to some rules that only exist in your mind.🤡
"I’m struggling to see why I wouldn’t buy an Ebike for this, other than the increased cost over a similar spec standard bike."
Because it would mean you had given up in life..... And you would be dead to me...
There was a group yesterday using a shuttle service despite them ALL riding sodding bikes with motor support. Ducks.
Yep it’s clear that you think people you don’t know should for some odd reason stick to some rules that only exist in your mind
Come on it's cycling, we all know there are rules 🐓
"Yep it’s clear that you think people you don’t know should for some odd reason stick to some rules that only exist in your mind."
But it's not though. The value of cycling being a wholly human powered activity is pretty much universally recognised. Certainly something I grew up with.
The value of cycling being a wholly human powered activity is pretty much universally recognised.
You just made that up. Bicycles are [s]children's[/s] toys. The only rule for toys is they need to be fun.
You stick to your self imposed made up rules if you wish.
Just don't think that anyone else is under any obligation to do the same.
Live and let live I say.
Sorry 5thElefant you couldn't be more wrong. If you or anyone else can't see it you never will. ☹
I guess you're not the target market then...
"I’d rather do half the miles and not feel like I’m cheating.I’d rather do half the miles and not feel like I’m cheating."
as i said before until you have tried one your opinion is void, imho, ride an ebike, and i bet you wouldnt make the same statement.
"Never felt twice the miles equals twice the enjoyment. I’ve got vehicles with engines for that…….hang on a minute 😉"
i didnt say he would get twice the enjoyment, just said he could do twice the miles in the same time, for me that would mean twice the enjoyment.
your vehicles for that, do you only go from a to b, or ever drive for the fun of it? twice the fun ?
Hi all. I'm an e-bike user. Too old and haven't got enough time to cycle to get fit (plus at my age there's a decreasing capacity to do so) but I do love mountain biking and going out for rides with my younger, fitter mates. I can now keep up with them and do longer distances than before. I still get a lot of exercise (those that try to persist the myth that it takes no effort to pedal a 24kg bike up a steep hill in eco mode (yes, I know some use turbo - that's their choice) are deluded or being deliberately inflammatory) and way more than I'd otherwise get because I simply wouldn't get enough enjoyment out of it if I had an unassisted bike, so I wouldn't go.
The e-mtb has reignited my love for being out there and allows me to get to the top of the hills in a reasonable time and without having to have a 10 minute recovery period before doing the downhill bit.
There are some on here that are purists and feel to ride the downs, you have to earn it by working the ups - fair play, it's everyone's right to an opinion, but do those same people go skiing or snowboarding and, if so, do they walk up the mountain or get a chairlift? Do people stand in line to shout abuse or "cheater" at those that use the bus uplift at Forest of Dean? Or are those people just doing the bit they like - the downhill and getting more runs in by using the uplift? What about BPW and those that dare to use the uplift? Where do you draw the line? e-bikes are incredible fun and in a short time (less than 5 years) will outnumber normal bikes on the trails.
When you're old and/or no longer able to devote time to keeping bike fit, will you simply give up or take the logical step and get an assisted bike?
As was said earlier "live and let live" as far as I am concerned. 😃
"your vehicles for that, do you only go from a to b, or ever drive for the fun of it? twice the fun ?"
I drive for a living A to B. For fun it's been 40yrs of Motocross I have a 1979 YZ250, 1997 CR250 and 2015 KTM SXF350. But my bycyles are all human powered I've never mixed the two and never will, both are completely separate distinctive pleasures. What others do is their buisness but for reasons mentioned before I see e-mtb's (not e-bikes in general), when ridden by fit able young men causing trouble for mtbing and all off road cyclists.
Hopefully I'm wrong but we'll see.