Bloomberg (paywall, sorry) are reporting that the frankly astonishing number of 280 million ebikes, electric scooters and electric 'motor'bikes that have been sold are having roughly four times the impact lowering oil consumption of electric cars. They report that their popularity has cut oil demand by as much as a million barrels of oil a day - about 1% of the world's use.. Bloomberg go on to say that it's the cost - a 20km a day commute, 5 days a week could cost as little as $20 annually, is having a massive impact on sales, and use.
This is where E-Bikes should be used.... The every day commute or shopping trip. Not in the trails, you laz-E gits.
This is where E-Bikes should be used.... The every day commute or shopping trip. Not in the trails, you laz-E gits.
Christ, have a day off.
This is where E-Bikes should be used.... The every day commute or shopping trip. Not in the trails, you laz-E gits.
🙂
This is where E-Bikes should be used.... The every day commute or shopping trip. Not in the trails, you laz-E gits.
Aha but I bought a second ebike to tow my other ebike to the trails, thus killing one bird with two stones.
It’s too late..
That feels like one for More of Less (radio 4 - sorry, niche middle-class nerd reference) to get their teeth into. Instinctively I'd say that feels like a journalist who has misplaced a decimal point by a place or two kind of story...
I wonder if they are counting E commuters that went from human powered bike to E in the negative column....
I'm a bug fan of the E commuter bike, but (without actually being able to read it) that doesn't feel quite right.
As I was locking my bike up at work this morning I heard a guy walking past telling a colleague "I'm gonna get an ebike - it'll pay for itself in a few weeks at the current price of fuel." Maybe this is why so many people are in so much debt?
The problem we'll have is that there's nowhere to put all the commuters bikes. The big bike lock-up at work probably has racks for 80 bikes. If it's not raining there's probably 100 bikes in there at the moment, and a lot of the new 'e-bikes' are those hideous Chopper style Cruiser 50kg things with seats like sofas. They take up a huge amount of space, though granted a lot less than a car.
The problem we'll have is that there's nowhere to put all the commuters bikes. The big bike lock-up at work probably has racks for 80 bikes. If it's not raining there's probably 100 bikes in there at the moment, and a lot of the new 'e-bikes' are those hideous Chopper style Cruiser 50kg things with seats like sofas. They take up a huge amount of space, though granted a lot less than a car.
My issue is that building my office is in doesn't have the proper insurance to be able to have ebike batteries on site (more accurately, a means to test that they aren't just lashed together homemade deathtraps/fire risks), so despite having built a posh new cycle storage area complete with charging points, we aren't allowed to store them securely in the building and sod leaving one outside in Leeds city centre. This seems odd given the number of laptops and EVs that are onsite at any given moment...
Possibly but EV and laptop batteries and their charging solutions tend to be very good and of a good quality, so less risk (although not zero) of those things starting fire as they are less likely to be a web-bought-bolted-together-at-home solution.
Possibly but EV and laptop batteries and their charging solutions tend to be very good and of a good quality, so less risk (although not zero) of those things starting fire as they are less likely to be a web-bought-bolted-together-at-home solution.
I know, my point is more that nobody checks them, it’s just a blanket ban. You could have a fairly simple check for the e-bikes, ie, is the battery supplied by the manufacturer, like a laptop or EV, or does it conform to whatever standard, but apparently that’s not possible.
those hideous Chopper style Cruiser 50kg things with seats like sofas.
Interesting how the e-bike of choice for so many is something that cyclists and the bike industry reject as 'not proper'. It's almost as if we're blinkered ... as if, people can be persuaded onto e-bikes if they don't look like regular bikes and look comfier or less flimsy.
I know, my point is more that nobody checks them, it’s just a blanket ban. You could have a fairly simple check for the e-bikes, ie, is the battery supplied by the manufacturer, like a laptop or EV, or does it conform to whatever standard, but apparently that’s not possible.
It's one of those knee-jerk responses from an HR / H&S team that wouldn't know one end of a bike from the other.
No-one minds that the CEO parks his EV up against the building wall. No-one cares about literally every member of staff having laptops and phones plugged in. As soon as you mention "bike" though, there'll be a collective meltdown, sometimes to the extent of creating rules that you must dismount at the gate and walk in, you must wear hi-vis, you must lock it to that flimsy railing in the far corner of the car park...
TBH I think it’s a Hanlons razor situation, it’s not my company saying no, it’s the manager of the building we rent office space in, having overlooked the details of their insurance policy when speccing the cycle storage area, which won’t have been cheap. It’s an easy fix, they just don’t want the responsibility.
Ebikes are useful, but I want to be able to use my escooter legally. It is ideal for making the trip from edge of city parking into the office in the middle. Plus I would use it more around home too (yes I know I can, but best not to annoy the rozzers)
“It's one of those knee-jerk responses from an HR / H&S team that wouldn't know one end of a bike from the other.”
It’s not, it’s a knee-jerk response from the insurance companies after dodgy electric bikes became common.
They also now have a similarly problematic rule about commercial bins, requiring that they have to be at least 5m from the building and away from anything flammable (like fences). There’s plenty of commercial premises where you don’t have that much space outside but I can tell you that it takes quite a battle to get that exclusion adjusted.
It would be nice if this ebike thing was true.
Regarding hideous e-bikes, I suspect that if all bikes were as relaxing to ride as my big bouncy electric gnar machine on potholed hilly roads with poor bike lanes, more non-cyclists would cycle. A “proper” commuter ebike will feel nervous and scary compared to a car - something that’s longer and slacker with big tyres just feels miles safer than a normal road bike. Might be slower but as we know, legal e-bikes cut out at 15.5mph so only keen riders pedal past that point so most gain very little from a conventionally efficient bicycle.
hideous Chopper style Cruiser
I would say that's rather funky.... Certainly better looking than most full sus E-Bikes......
Are the stats comparing an eBike trip to a car trip? Yes an eBike is better than a car but worse than a bike. There are now loads of ebikes in the Netherlands and they definitely aren't replacing a car journey.
My issue is that building my office is in doesn't have the proper insurance to be able to have ebike batteries on site
As part of my job I did some number crunching on this. There were 200-ish e-bike battery/charging fires out of 500,000 reported fires for the most recent year with complete numbers. While 200 is a big number it is a small risk comapred to all those other fire types out there. Some buildings insurance companies seem to have a skewed perception of risk, or they have been disproportionately affected by them.
Aha but I bought a second ebike to tow my other ebike to the trails, thus killing one bird with two stones.
I'm sure the bike shop downstairs in Rapha had a Surly Big Dummy set up to carry a second bike. So… Big Easy then?
It makes sense that ebikes are better than EVs - most urban car journeys remain short and single occupant, and the amount of energy and battery you need for an eBike is obviously a lot less than moving a BMW iX. However, as the APPGWC report on eBikes said, the risk is that dangerous conversions and illegal e-mopeds undermine this potential, as is already being seen in the States.
As I was locking my bike up at work this morning I heard a guy walking past telling a colleague "I'm gonna get an ebike - it'll pay for itself in a few weeks at the current price of fuel." Maybe this is why so many people are in so much debt?
You'd be astonished. Someone on the local AT group was marvelling at people putting huge amounts of time and effort into saving £2 off £16 to park in central Manchester, when the return bus fare into the city is £4 and the tram £7.10 (and you can probably park free at the tram station).
hideous Chopper style Cruiser
I would say that's rather funky.... Certainly better looking than most full sus E-Bikes......
God no, considerably uglier than that
As part of my job I did some number crunching on this. There were 200-ish e-bike battery/charging fires out of 500,000 reported fires for the most recent year with complete numbers. While 200 is a big number it is a small risk comapred to all those other fire types out there. Some buildings insurance companies seem to have a skewed perception of risk, or they have been disproportionately affected by them.
It'd be interesting to know how many of those were conversions.
Mrs Pondo's college is having renovations so their covered bike park is out of action and she has to lock her bike up.in the open at the staff car park five minutes away - she's been expressly forbidden to lock it up inside premises because it's an e-bike. Insurance hasn't been mentioned, fair enough if it's because of that, but given how the place is run, it feels more like a knee-jerk reaction to a Daily Heil headline.
@pondo I looked into it but couldn't find any data. Work have a problem with a couple of pubs with rooms, their managers/tennants have tried to engage but it's a "computer says no" situation. ACT have some useful factsheets on e-bikes if Mrs Pondo is up for the fight!
On an individual basis... replacing most of your car journeys with ebike journeys is absolutely many times more effective than switching to an electric car and continuing to use your car for most journeys. How we map ebike sale and use onto any decrease in car journeys worldwide (if that's even happening) is a hard data problem... and without seeing behind that paywall, I strongly suspect that the journalists have failed to show that is happening and/or succeeded in quantifying the effect. Would love to be wrong.
These went in last week:
BBC News - Get on your e-bike: Bradford hire scheme aims to get city moving - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ykng64y46o
By Sunday morning's ride into work there was one left in the docking station, with ebikes abandoned randomly throughout my journey. The scrotes ragging them round the city centre the previous evening seemed to be enjoying themselves, though.
Bradford spent a massive sum of money pedestrianising the city centre and putting in cycle lanes for last year's City of Culture thing - but the cycle lanes are unusable because people just walk along them or step into them without looking. Even as a cycling advocate - total waste of money. The culture's not there.
Makes sense kinda, I live in a village and avoid cities at all costs so not sure what the climate is like there in terms of ebike usage so only really have my own anecdotal personal evidence.
Since going fully WFH I sold my car, so we’re now a one car household. I’ve got some local woods about 5 minutes away by bike, but Guisborough Woods my favourite place to ride is about a 20 minute drive.
Before getting the eeb I’d always drive there. Riding it on my enduro bike from home is about 250m ascent and circa 50/60 minutes just to reach the woods depending on wind direction, so by the time you arrive you’re already starting to get cooked. With the eeb I can ride there in about 30 minutes using eco, arrive with around 80% battery and feeling fresh, ride loads of trails, then head back when the battery hits 25% and make it home comfortably.
Depending on how I ride, I can usually do 50 km with around 1100 m ascent, using eco/tour+ for most of it and EMTB+ on the steeper stuff. Average HR still sits in the 150s, so it’s still a proper workout.
If I decide to go full emtb+ lazy mode I usually do the same ascent but over 36ish km or so
As a result, even for riding, I now drive way way less
You'd be astonished. Someone on the local AT group was marvelling at people putting huge amounts of time and effort into saving £2 off £16 to park in central Manchester, when the return bus fare into the city is £4 and the tram £7.10 (and you can probably park free at the tram station).
The only time KSI road safety stats have taken a noticeable dip is during fuel crises (either big price spikes or strike action). People immediately stop driving as much and the road casualty figures drop in parallel. You get similar patterns if parking charges are increased or parking is restricted and driving becomes more awkward but that tends to be highly localised so much less apparent.
I'm wondering what the effect of the current situation will be; I reckon it'll be much less noticeable due to the proliferation now of EV. In some respects, EV are terrible because it's much cheaper to drive (especially if you can charge at home on an overnight tariff) so it promotes much more driving - oh I've bought / leased an expensive EV but look, it's only a few pence a mile rather than £££ of diesel each week so I'll drive every day.
"the cycle lanes are unusable because people just walk along them or step into them without looking. Even as a cycling advocate - total waste of money. The culture's not there."
Needs education. When we visited Amsterdam you learned very quickly after a few near misses not to walk in the cycle lane.
Maybe fit an Air Zound?
No idea if related, but BBC, NCP (car parks) has just gone bust
“The administrator, PwC, said demand for parking had not recovered to pre-Covid levels, pointing to "shifts in commuting and customer driving patterns".”
id be interested to see battery fire stats for Ali express/temu/shed batteries vs via formal uk dealers etc.
No idea if related, but BBC, NCP (car parks) has just gone bust
“The administrator, PwC, said demand for parking had not recovered to pre-Covid levels, pointing to "shifts in commuting and customer driving patterns".”
Possibly it points to a shift in the number of people willing to pay their extortionate prices for parking on some random waste ground...
No idea if related, but BBC, NCP (car parks) has just gone bust
“The administrator, PwC, said demand for parking had not recovered to pre-Covid levels, pointing to "shifts in commuting and customer driving patterns".”
Possibly it points to a shift in the number of people willing to pay their extortionate prices for parking on some random waste ground...
Apparently private equity has done its usual, too.
With the weather and light improving I've switched back to cycling part of my daily commute into the lab. I live just outside of Stirling and work in the West End of Glasgow. My daily commute is usually a 1hr 15 min bus journey into the centre of the city, a 10 minute walk down to the Subway, 10 minute Subway journey then a 10 minute walk to the lab from Hillhead station. So, around 1hr 40 mins each way.
Dropping the Subway in favour of using a Voi hire e-bike parked at the bus station means I'm shortening my commute by a good 20 minutes, the cost has dropped from £15.50 a week for a subway pass to £17.99 for a full month's bike pass and I'm less grumpy because I get to do a 15 minute almost traffic free bike ride every morning and afternoon.
As an alternative for city commuters, e-bikes are fantastic and I'm a big fan of city bike schemes. I'm just waiting for the University to cut a similar deal with Voi as they did with the previous NextBike franchise, so I can hire them for free!
B.
I think to really get a feel for how big an impact this is you're going to need to look at China, other big population countries where there's real electrification - observations from Britain which isn't very electrified and where bike commuting is a minority activity aren't relevant. Locally to me in Europe I see a lot of people commuting on e bikes, but I doubt that it makes any impact at all compared to some 10million people city in central China somewhere
Just been in London for the weekend and used an electric scooter to get from Kensington to king cross, at no point did I worry about traffic, in fact I probably worried more about pickpockets on the tube than being squashed on the scooter.
I think when normal people have access to this stuff, without major personal investment and without cycling fashion stigma, it makes a huge difference and quickly.
I wonder if they are counting E commuters that went from human powered bike to E in the negative column....
I'm a bug fan of the E commuter bike, but (without actually being able to read it) that doesn't feel quite right.
It's probably even more nuanced than that. I think there will be a good chunk of e-commuters who have reached an age (e.g. when they had children) where leg power was no longer convenient enough, but ebikes enabled them to continue cycling rather than turning to the car.
Aha but I bought a second ebike to tow my other ebike to the trails, thus killing one bird with two stones.
I'm sure the bike shop downstairs in Rapha had a Surly Big Dummy set up to carry a second bike. So… Big Easy then?
It makes sense that ebikes are better than EVs - most urban car journeys remain short and single occupant, and the amount of energy and battery you need for an eBike is obviously a lot less than moving a BMW iX. However, as the APPGWC report on eBikes said, the risk is that dangerous conversions and illegal e-mopeds undermine this potential, as is already being seen in the States.
As I was locking my bike up at work this morning I heard a guy walking past telling a colleague "I'm gonna get an ebike - it'll pay for itself in a few weeks at the current price of fuel." Maybe this is why so many people are in so much debt?
You'd be astonished. Someone on the local AT group was marvelling at people putting huge amounts of time and effort into saving £2 off £16 to park in central Manchester, when the return bus fare into the city is £4 and the tram £7.10 (and you can probably park free at the tram station).
I have a colleague that salary sacrificed a Kia EV6 to make her 3-4 hour return commute 1-2 days a week considerably cheaper.
Shortly after, the government introduced the 50c public transport fee. The same journey can now be done (with about an additional 10-15 minutes of walking for her) for $1. She continued to drive for a while... then her team was restructured meaning absolutely no chance of free parking and they want her in 5/5. She's on the train now!
those hideous Chopper style Cruiser 50kg things with seats like sofas.
Interesting how the e-bike of choice for so many is something that cyclists and the bike industry reject as 'not proper'. It's almost as if we're blinkered ... as if, people can be persuaded onto e-bikes if they don't look like regular bikes and look comfier or less flimsy.
TBH it’ll just be cheap, the e-bikes we like are pedalable as opposed to what the consumer wants which is something with no tax/insurance/ licence and 30-50 MPH.
https://engwe-bikes-eu.com/products/m20
This sort of money buys you pretty much nothing in our bubble.
Just been in London for the weekend and used an electric scooter to get from Kensington to king cross, at no point did I worry about traffic, in fact I probably worried more about pickpockets on the tube than being squashed on the scooter.
I think when normal people have access to this stuff, without major personal investment and without cycling fashion stigma, it makes a huge difference and quickly.
We've had these personally own-able and useable in Spain for a fair few years, this year they have made insurance and registration mandatory and they have to be on an approved list.
I think they got fed up with the rise in accidents with them.
Normal e-bikes are still without a requirement of insurance or registration.
The regs are enforced on both so anything not within the legal definitions are fines and confiscation and not small fines.
We've had these personally own-able and useable in Spain for a fair few years, this year they have made insurance and registration mandatory and they have to be on an approved list.
The result being though that they're used responsibly, the scooter companies know what they need to make, the buyers know what's required and the police enforce the rules.
Over here it's a complete wild west of "you can only use them on private land" get out clauses, a disinterested government, an under-resourced police and a riding style driven by the fact that everyone knows they're illegal so they aren't stopping for anything.
No idea if related, but BBC, NCP (car parks) has just gone bust
“The administrator, PwC, said demand for parking had not recovered to pre-Covid levels, pointing to "shifts in commuting and customer driving patterns".”
Possibly it points to a shift in the number of people willing to pay their extortionate prices for parking on some random waste ground...
Apparently private equity has done its usual, too.
Bingo. Macquarie (also known from Thames Water, IIRC) bought NPC, loaded £450m of debt on it, then sold it on. Its debt pile is now under £400m, which is something, but obviously not enough
The problem we'll have is that there's nowhere to put all the commuters bikes.
what, all the commuters who currently drive?
Over here it's a complete wild west of "you can only use them on private land" get out clauses, a disinterested government, an under-resourced police and a riding style driven by the fact that everyone knows they're illegal so they aren't stopping for anything.
We don't even apply the same laws across the UK. Perfectly legal to ride an Escooter in London, Nottingham and probably others on main roads... It just needs to be part of an approved system.
This sort of money buys you pretty much nothing in our bubble.
I could spec you a brand new, perfectly good commuter ebike for sub £1000.
There is absolutly no reason why the established brands couldnt compete with the trad deliveroo Amazon bikes.