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want to turbo everywhere
Is that what people do?? I really dislike the feeling of the Turbo setting on my Bosch CX, can't imagine doing a whole ride on it.
I was taking my Moterra SL (yes, I have 2 ebikes at the mo!) for it's first ride and 2 fellas on Santa Cruz's came blasting past me, I didn't think I was going particularly slow! so maybe they were Turbo hounds.
When I’m out on my own, absolutely. I’d say 95% of the time I’m exclusively in Turbo. I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.
If I’m out with others, it’s usually Tour+ or EMTB+, unless we’re committed to a fast ride.
Have a snoop at the eMTB forum, that seems to be what all the members on there do, or want to do. It’s incessantly “more power”… “Amflow” “how to derestrict”…
I've been fairly vocal on here about deristricting mine - both are deristricted. I still have no desire to blat around everywhere in turbo though - nor ride past pedestrians/fly past other bikers at 30mph
Had a full power bike for three years and went through the same situation the OP describes and sold the bike two years ago. Bought an equivalent style enduro bike and god it was hard work. Downhill, brilliant. Everywhere else hard work. Bought an Epic Evo last summer and absolutely love it. Makes local rides fun and very rarely can I find it's limits. All my riding mates have now swapped to ebikes though, so I got seduced back to dark side with a heavily reduced Levo SL. Really enjoying it though. Unlike the full power bikes, there is only just enough power and torque, so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground. Did a big day (for me) in the Cairngorms last month and even in turbo I was barely still able to ride the steeper climbs. On a full power bike it would have been easy and with my Epic, it would have been a long day walking. It allowed me to do a ride I wouldn't have contemplated normally, but still felt challenging.
I love both!
Full fat ebike on turbo for local DH self-uplift sessions (it's really steep and not particularly enjoyable on a normal bike)
Hardtail for weekly night ride or XC.
yes, also not feeling the eeb as much. I mean, it's fun, but it's not cycling. Even though I am both shit and fat, for actual 'turning the pedals', I miss the direct relationship of forward motion to leg pushing and crank turning. I hate the isolation of the eeb. Also, yes, more hills, more descents, but is it better? not really. It is also very heavy, which is noticeable.
Ridden it pretty much exclusively for 2.5yrs, got it due to AF, AF now (fingers crossed) much better so meds lower making normal biking much more possible again. Bought a 2nd hand Geometron for a song a couple of months ago and have only ridden eeb twice in that time, 30or so other rides all on the G1. Which is bloody brilliant BTW, and also an appropriate size for this 195cm 115kg fella.
Had a full power bike for three years and went through the same situation the OP describes and sold the bike two years ago. Bought an equivalent style enduro bike and god it was hard work. Downhill, brilliant. Everywhere else hard work. Bought an Epic Evo last summer and absolutely love it. Makes local rides fun and very rarely can I find it's limits. All my riding mates have now swapped to ebikes though, so I got seduced back to dark side with a heavily reduced Levo SL. Really enjoying it though. Unlike the full power bikes, there is only just enough power and torque, so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground. Did a big day (for me) in the Cairngorms last month and even in turbo I was barely still able to ride the steeper climbs. On a full power bike it would have been easy and with my Epic, it would have been a long day walking. It allowed me to do a ride I wouldn't have contemplated normally, but still felt challenging.
Love this. You're not the first to mention the Epic Evo either. I think that's probably the sweet spot for a non-powered MTB, although I really loved my Stumpy Evo, pretty regretful about selling that to fund the Kenevo SL tbh but here we are. I've only the space for 2 bikes and that's a push so one needed to go.
Some great comments here though, super interesting reading where everyone is at.
so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground.
I find these comment's curious. Its perfectly possible to turn a full fat down so it doesn't overwhelm the riding experience.
Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?
Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?
I know my singlespeed is a very different riding experience to my geared bike, even though I could just 'not shift' on the geared bike... 😉
I really loved my Stumpy Evo, pretty regretful about selling that to fund the Kenevo SL tbh
Interesting...
That's the situation I find myself in.
I love my Stumpy Evo, but when I got it out to go to Dyfi a few weeks ago, I realised I hadn't ridden it since a trip to the Alps the previous summer. The reason being that for most of the UK riding I do I prefer my hardtail for it's efficiency and versatility.
Outside of the Alps and bike parks I find the Stumpy Evo is too much bike for the riding I can easily reach under my own power. The riding that it would be good for, is just a little too far to make it worth pedalling to get to. I try not to use the car to go riding as, to me, it defeats the point of having a bicycle...
I'm wondering whether an ebike will bring my local more technical spots more within range for self powered trips?
If I get one, I can also see myself swapping my hardtail for a Stooge for bikepacking and general arsery.
I ride a regular bike, a Ragley Big Al at least once a week with my club as well as my Cotic Jeht occasionally at weekends.
But last year i got a full fat Orbea Wild. For me its like having a proper capable enduro rig without the utter misery of having to pedal a proper capable enduro rig. Its even become my "go to" for uplift days. I would never want a regular enduro bike, with draggy tyres etc as they are hideous, heavy and dead feeling everywhere but pointed down.
But it means the Jeht is slowly getting pushed out of the picture. If i want that nimble, lively and direct feeling, then i grab the Ragley but if i want to go a hit some bigger, chunky stuff then out comes the Wild.
If i had to limit it to two in the future, then my ideal would be to have a full fat enduro eeb like the Wild and a lightweight xc full suss with modern geo.
But it means the Jeht is slowly getting pushed out of the picture. If i want that nimble, lively and direct feeling, then i grab the Ragley but if i want to go a hit some bigger, chunky stuff then out comes the Wild.
I have literally just stripped and sold my Ibis Ripmo because of this.
I'm now down to the Vendetta and Heckler and I'm okay with that.
without the utter misery of having to pedal a proper capable enduro rig
You're probably overstating for comedic effect, but it's not that bad is it?
I regularly do big rides on my enduro sled and it's not that much different to riding my trail bike.
But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?
Turbo at the start of a downhill run to get speed up rest of the time my gang is mainly eco or trail to enjoy being out and talking nonsense. If you're turboing and chipping it get a Motorcross bike you wussies.
So far, on my max 2.5 hour ebike rides, it's not been a problem to select turbo mode which I've kept at the custom option of 100% (250W) when the road points up 3%ish+ for more than a few seconds. It probably helps I try to use eco mode as much as possible on essentially flat, custom max of 100W, but often I've dropped it to 75-80W.
But with only a 250Wh battery, I'm still trying to get my head around how conservative I would need to be with assist on hills, to be able to do a ~50 mile loop (with ~3000 feet climbing) to get up Stoner/Wheatham Hill for the first time since Liz's funeral day... One to hopefully try in July once I've got over this current respiratory infection and eased myself back into some ~2+ hour rides!
13ish more miles and 650ish foot more climbing than my longest ride so far that used 81% battery.
It goes without saying that I'll need to make good use of freewheeling downhill when under the ~15.5mph assist speed to conserve battery, plus I'll have to take some climbs at mid assistance (max of 175W). It would probably make sense to fit my front VEL 50RL wheel to the ebike too.
It will certainly be a long day for me these days, close to 4 hours, not far off an hour slower than my ride on Liz's funeral day on my normal bike (my last good health hill time chasing ride before covid got me good).
I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.
Now I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of turbo that the eeb flogs itself rather than the rider?
I’ve had mine for about 2.5years, when I first got it I thought I’d never ride a normal bike again.
Until I dusted off my other bike for a trip to Wales and realised that I really prefer riding a lighter bike downhill. It did really increase my fitness for the first year though as I rode a lot more and it made me a better rider because I wasn’t always knackered at the top.
At the moment though I’m enjoying riding a manual bike most of the time, climbing still sucks.
The eeb comes out occasionally now, if I’m tight for time or a bit tired and wouldn’t otherwise ride. Although typing that I don’t think it’s been out since New Year’s Day…
So my vibe is it depends and both are fun depending on my mood & circumstances 🙂
so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground.
I find these comment's curious. Its perfectly possible to turn a full fat down so it doesn't overwhelm the riding experience.
Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?
So why bother carrying the extra weight of a full power motor and associated big battery about?
My mate has one of the posh Amflows and even it is noticeably heavier than my Levo SL. His eco setting is more powerful than my Turbo!
When I had my full power I went through the phase of high power everywhere and went back to running low power most of the time. On my recent mentioned trip, I also visited Laggan and Glenlivet. The use profile of the many E bikes I saw, was most riders blasting up fireroads definitely not in reduced power modes. To lots of e-bikes that is the point of having one.
So why bother carrying the extra weight of a full power motor and associated big battery about?
Because the power is there if you want it, which is kinda the point. It has flexibility of use.
I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.
Now I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of turbo that the eeb flogs itself rather than the rider?
I really don't get this either. On the few I've hired or demo'd I've already hit either the speed limit or the assistance limit in trail/tour when actually working myself so shifting to turbo made no noticeable difference.
When I had my full power I went through the phase of high power everywhere and went back to running low power most of the time. On my recent mentioned trip, I also visited Laggan and Glenlivet. The use profile of the many E bikes I saw, was most riders blasting up fireroads definitely not in reduced power modes. To lots of e-bikes that is the point of having one.
After a morning riding at Glenlivet on normal bikes me and a mate hired ebikes for the afternoon as they were cheap and we'd had a decent lunch. Riding them flat out we'd emptied the batteries in 1:40 and roughly 30km and 1000m which was fun. Each downhill wasn't as fun as on my much lighter normal bike and if I'd had to conserve the battery so I could ride all day I'm not sure it'd be worth it.
Doing a Santa Cruz demo day at Stainburn definitely convinced me that even a 22kg ebike is less fun than a burly 16kg trail bike there on anything other than the climbs. I'm sure I could get used to it but the weight made them feel to just plough rather than carefully pick a line.
As per HobNob's response... I have never derived enjoyment from the climbs, they are a means to an end, a "vessel to the good bits" as he put it... That's not to say that I don't derive a sense of achievement out of climbing, but it's not the fun bit and I'm pretty firmly in the "rather go further and do more descents for the same effort" these days, especially after a couple of years enforced off a bike due to health issues.
Of course there are eBikes and there are eBikes. I'm on my 4th now and have ridden a fair few over the years. Modern eBikes are such a world apart even from eBikes of only 5yrs ago, even if they're not that much lighter, the dynamic of most of them is much closer to a normal MTB I find. My new 2025 Mondraker Crafty just feels like a normal 150mm travel trail/enduro bike most of the time when descending! OK so it needs bigger/better brakes to help reign it in a little, but because it's so well balanced and the bulk of the weight is central and low down on the bike, it handles so well. In fact, with a little extra weight and good geometry, it arguably has better front end grip than a similar normal MTB would have and thus requires a less active riding style to get the grip required, meaning for those of us mere mortal riders, modern ebikes can actually be faster and more fun on the descents at times than a lighter weight bike!
There are times where an eBike simply doesn't feel like the right bike still, and due to the 25km/h rules it's on the flatter and more pedally trails where I find this is the case... I hadn't ridden my XC/DC bike for ages, but took it out the other week on some of my usual trails, and forgot just how great it is on the more pedally descents where you're easily exceeding 25km/h at times, and how easily it wanted to pop in the air off every single root and rock! It was a hell of a lot of fun and reminded me more of why I got into MTBing, but by the same token, I rode less trails before I was knackered and it was only objectively "better" on those flatter trails.
I keep looking at all the bargains out there in the 140+mm "trail" and "enduro" bike categories out there right now, thinking if ever there was a time to buy it is right now... But I just can't see me using one again! I have no desire to be on a bike with all of the downsides of my eBike (longer travel, heavy wheels and tyres) but without a motor and battery to take the sting out of the climbs! But I do still see a place for a lightweight XC/DC bike, be it a hardtail or a short travel full sus, for flatter rides and/or general distance work.
As for riding modes on an eBike? Well each to their own... Turbo doesn't interest me... I can't get excited about a bicycle capable of putting out less than 1bhp of power when I've got motorbikes with more than 150bhp in my garage... It's totally not the point of them. The motor is there for a bit of assistance to help you do more and make more of the trails you have access to. I'm on a Bosch CX motored bike, but mostly use Tour+, occasionally eMTB, sometimes a bit of Eco if I'm riding with people on regular MTB's, and have only used turbo just to check it works but it felt absolutely pointless to me... But if I'm on a bike it's generally for a minimum of 3hrs, often a lot longer anyway, so I'm not stealing that quick lunch hour ride and trying to make the most of it myself so each to their own...
Managed 2 rides last weekend, 40km and 1100m of climbing on Saturday, 50km and 1700m of climbing on Sunday... Most of the time in eMTB both days, a bit of eco too. Saturday I had 44% battery (800Wh) left and Sunday 35% left... I was riding in groups both days, chatting socially at times, climbing at a group pace and adjusting my modes and my gears as such... The fact I managed two big rides in two days at all is testament to me just how great modern eBikes are (for anyone who hasn't followed my history with cancer the last few years, take my word for it), but being minded to put effort in I was still absolutely knackered at the end of both rides anyway... An eBike just means I can ride with whoever now, and whenever, and just adjust my modes to suit...
It's probably 20 years since we hit peak-inbred and you couldn't turn up to a ride without at least one no-frills* logo'd simple XC bike being there. That's got to mean it's due a comeback.
TINAS makes a good point here of sorts... The biggest problem with eBikes is just how expensive it has made the sport... 20yrs ago, the venerable STW group ride meet ups would be full of mostly people on bikes they'd built themselves for £1-1.5K I'd say. For sure you had the occasional expensive ego chariot, and you had the odd person riding singlespeed not because they wanted to but more because they couldn't afford to replace their drivetrain (back when cassettes were £30, chains were a tenner, and both lasted ages!)... I know if I only ever rode on my own, I'd have fun regardless of if I was on a sub £1k hardtail or on an all singing all dancing £10k eBike... The problem is you can't take a knife to a gunfight and expect to enjoy it any more sadly, because more money tends to buy more performance now, more than it ever used to when you still had to put all the effort in yourself!
Recent Levo buyer so early days for me but I'm still riding my proper bikes more. I am loving the choice that its added to my life though 🙂
I am 54 and each year I am taking my fitness and weight more seriously so giving up proper bikes isn't on the cards.
What I love it for is sessioning steep local trails and have found it really good from a skills point of view, you can't beat repetition of a trail or feature for improvement. I also like to do a long ride on my Airdrop then grab a bite to eat, walk the dog then Turbo the local steeps for an hour.
I think I'm basically using it as a treat.
I've recently done a 4 day, 197 miler (hardtail) and I'm looking forward to 3 days of hikeabikey (no way I'm carrying an E-bike) Lakeland stuff this month. Variety is the spice of life and all that.
You're probably overstating for comedic effect, but it's not that bad is it?
I regularly do big rides on my enduro sled and it's not that much different to riding my trail bike.
But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?
Its quite noticeable to me, and i'll sidestep the lame "people used to the motor doing the work" dig, yawn. I've always found the bigger tyres / more sag / increased weight kills the enjoyable, direct, feel of a ride. If i ever had to stick to one bike it would be a steel hardtail even though most of my riding is in the peak.
picked up my first ebike last night so fully vibed here.
But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?
Its quite noticeable to me, and i'll sidestep the lame "people used to the motor doing the work" dig, yawn.
That honestly wasn't a dig.
I've read many times on this very forum people saying "going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on". Someone has probably even said it on this thread.
I was just thinking maybe those who get used to riding with a motor perceive riding an enduro bike as harder than non-eebers.
OK fair enough, i read it the wrong way. All good.
My views on enduro bikes are compared with shorter travel trail bikes which i have always preferred. Its why, pre ebike, i got the Jeht rather than the Rocket, which now with hindsight was the wrong call considering how much time our club spends at uplift centres 🙁
Anyone wanna buy a Jeht ? 😉
My Vitus E-Sommet got parked in the garage almost a year ago when the drivetrain needed changed, was ready for a fitness campaign at the time and its the best thing I've done. Significantly fitter and lighter (not just to no e-bike to be fair) and absolutely no desire to ride one again. The normal bikes are just so much more rewarding to get up a tricky climb and much more fun coming back down (all IMO).
As someone said to me when I got up a steep climb on the eeb feeling a little falsely proud, "well done, your thumb got a good workout there pressing that power button", that summed it up well the difference between a non assisted bike and one where the motor can drag you up the hill.
going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on
My solution to this is to only ride my eeber on around 10% of my rides.
That way you get the polar opposite when you do ride it.
Eco feel like turbo and trail is awsumz for pulling sick wheelies up pushup tracks. 😉
“"going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on"”
The last time I rode with smatkins1 who said this, he was on his Geometron and the rest of us (visiting from the the east) were on e-bikes. I tried turning my Levo off in solidarity but gave in after a short while and left him to suffer alone keeping up with motor-assisted riders (but to be honest he didn’t appear to be suffering at all!)
I switched to a Cube Stereo Hybrid which I loved for 2 years. Eventually I was looking for something lighter and more like what I used to ride. I changed to a Orbea Rise, another great bike but I found myself riding less and less, enjoying it less. I then sold that and now have a Whyte 901, it feels great to be back.
I got overtaken on FoD long red extension last night by 2 eebs... i wasn't bothered 😀 Once upon a time it would have bothered me, but right now i'm happy that i was struggling on the manual
Im almost exactly a year into my e-bike journey. And in that year, even though ive been MTB-crazy for years, I’ve never ridden as much. For me, it’s been like discovering biking anew. It’s like a total addiction. On any dry day, im riding twice a day! And each time, im going twice as far as I would go on my normal full susser . Consequently, my fitness hasn’t dropped - I’ve been riding each day like it’s my last day ever on a bike!
however, I understand what folks are saying. When you have no choice but to suffer a brutal climb in order to earn one sweet descent, I think you appreciate that descent more. When you can do that climb 3 times, there is no question (in my mind) that sometimes the descents can kind of pass you by. My plan is to focus on each and every descent, as if it was the only one. Enjoy every meter of that ride.
my bike is a light e-bike. Even then, I hardly ever ride in turbo mode. There are two things that jump out at me that I’ve especially enjoyed/benefited from on an e-bike:
1. When I don’t really have the time for a normal ride, you can go o boost, knock out the climb, and squeeze a one-lap ride into a much shorter time than on a normal bike. (I don’t do this very often - most times, I ride at approx. The same pace as my normal bike).
2. I have always loved technical climbs. But the e-bike has taken that love and multiplied it by 100. I kind myself riding a descent sometimes - just to have another crack at the techy climb back up.
sorry - 3 things:
3. My winter riding has been revolutionised. My local trails get very boggy in winter. A trail that you can zip along in summer becomes a trudging slog in winter. But the e-bike has revolutionised this. Less zoomy trails are less of a trudge.
I got overtaken on FoD long red extension last night by 2 eebs... i wasn't bothered 😀
last time I was at the FoD i got overtaken by the same ebiker three times on a single climb up through the DH tracks. I've since bought an ebike...