E-Bikes still aren't a lazy option, they're really hard to maintain. The drive train gets worn in no time. How long does a chain last when riding these things very hard in the poor english weather ?
1. Have normal bike keep trim.
2. Have E-bike be slightly porky and less fit.
Nah, the constant running round in circles on the internet keeps you fit. No wonder the OP is bored of hearing about them...
I can tell you now an E Biker who rides Full On and really puts the power down and smashes both climbs and the descents puts in far more effort than the 3mph brigade who pootle round on normal bikes on "social rides" stopping every 10 minutes and slowly spinning up gradual hills in bottom gear and pedalling lightly even on the flat.
Or the Weekends at Llandegla you see MTB'ers already off their bike and pushing uphill before they've even got out of the carpark!
Nobody cares.
And yes, people riding these on the trails could screw it up for everyone.
People have been riding scooters and mini-motos in the woods for a long time. I used to see a bunch of kids fairly regularly in the FOD late 90s, on old MTBs that they'd welded moped rear wheel and motor-swingarm assemblies onto.
It all has zero impact on rights of way for bicycles because they're different things.
Nobody cares.
I sort of do .... not least because I would like to buy one at some point (dependent on heath) but I find the whole preaching part a huge turn off like something that would then affect* my enjoyment.
*I mean affect, not ruin but FFS it would be something I'm buying purely for enjoyment and right now finding information means holding your nose to the bull rhetoric from the likes of Steve Jones.."Thew whole once you make the switch you'll never go back" crap.... as I certainly have no intention of getting rid of my real bikes...
I sort of do …. not least because I would like to buy one at some point (dependent on heath) but I find the whole preaching part a huge turn off
Same here... I might need an eBike one day. But I really don't want to turn into one of the eBike twonks like some on here.
Same here… I might need an eBike one day. But I really don’t want to turn into one of the eBike twonks like some on here.
Don't even know about NEED .... I can still keep up with my 10yr old uphill even if I've had top abandon downhill. I'd quite like to keep riding with him without him waiting for me becoming an issue. I'd hope that is way before I strictly need an ebike
I'd certainly not want to abandon my other bikes to do this though or be part of the whole petty silliness.
You don't have to be part of any debate, I have one and just ride it, my mates are the same. I don't think I've commented on this thread up until now (although not 100%), as ever arguing on the internet rarely if ever changes anyone's opinion. I have tried a bit in the past but quickly lost interest.
Talk about them with mates who have them, generally raving about what fun they are, and to people who ask about them on the trails but other than that, nah.
I used to see a bunch of kids fairly regularly in the FOD late 90s, on old MTBs that they’d welded moped rear wheel and motor-swingarm assemblies onto.
I think that's pretty cool. With ingenuity like that, there should be some reward in technical off-road.
Whenever I see someone on an electric bike I always think "great to see someone on a bike".
davosaurusrex
You don’t have to be part of any debate, I have one and just ride it, my mates are the same. I don’t think I’ve commented on this thread up until now (although not 100%), as ever arguing on the internet rarely if ever changes anyone’s opinion. I have tried a bit in the past but quickly lost interest.
The thing is they are bloody expensive so it's something I'd research a lot before buying.
It's just one example but of course GMBN promote Canyon/Nukeproof but they also are not suggesting I should buy a Mega and throw away my XC bike or using disparaging terms to refer to other brands ... which seems like the message from EMBN.
All my riding buddies are younger than me.... mostly by a decade or more so not a great source of info. I'm not looking to buy next week.... but I am trying to learn and expand my knowledge before I do buy.
True, I did the same. I'm still interested in the tech but haven't watched EMBN for ages, I won't be buying another one for some time so now it's about the riding which is bloody great
I’m all for it, each to his own and all that. However I’m completely unconvinced by anyone who tries to argue ebike riders put in more effort and calories than riding a normal bike. Long uphills are a killer on mountain bikes and I’ve frequently been breezed past by someone on a ebike looking pretty unfit and putting in minimal effort. I often catch them up again as they pootle downhill getting in the way of my gnarrness.
I think that’s pretty cool. With ingenuity like that, there should be some reward in technical off-road.
They were. Never seen them since or elsewhere either. Really simple, the whole drive unit was part of the moped swingarm and it got bolted into the BB. Shock on the back of the seat tube. Can't remember where the fuel was, in the bottle cage maybe. Seemed to corner fast and fly pretty well.
However I’m completely unconvinced by anyone who tries to argue ebike riders put in more effort and calories than riding a normal bike.
Thing is you can, you just go up even faster than the pootler. In practice it's only STW posters that actually do 😉
I will get one when I'm 60. All my riding is local and has a definite direction it should be ridden.
I shall look forward to riding trails the wrong way.
I’ll get one when the motors and batteries are so small I can hide them and swear blind it’s just a normal bike and I’m mega fit.
About effort - as a reasonably fit but untrained rider, over a 2-3hr ride I expect would struggle to average much over 150bpm, that's about my trad Z3-Z4 threshold (even 150 might be optimistic). I could ride an e-bike off-road and average 150 too, they're heavy and need some muscle to move about properly and I'd ride different places or climb more. And I expect I'd need to get some rusty skills back to handle the e-bike at that pace.
Different muscles, different kind of effort, not the same as trad cycling power output I know, but not unreasonable to expect it's possible to have similar cardio impact.
I can ride uphill faster than anyone who I know of, by a very long way. Regardless of whether they are 10 or 80. Yet I still often feel slow when I ride Solo. I still want an E Bike for solo rides.
Mates just bought a E-Gravel bike, an E-Synapse Neo...looking forward to having a go.
Hypothetical question. If you were, let’s say a 55+ year old eBike sceptic who’d just had their £6k sub 28lb analog full sus pinched, would you spend the insurance money on a direct replacement, or think about getting an eBike and look around for a cheap second hand analog?
Yes. (The second one)
I’ve just remembered the contempt road riders used to have for mountain bikes in the 80’s. They obviously weren’t concerned about access, but there was the notion that they were too easy with the low gears and it wasn’t real cycling for lazy people who weren’t up to sub-20 on the local 10 etc etc
60 next birthday, I'd go option 1. I'll never buy an e-mtb, e-bike as transport I fancy one now.
can still keep up with my 10yr old uphill even if I’ve had top abandon downhill. I’d quite like to keep riding with him without him waiting for me becoming an issue. I’d hope that is way before I strictly need an ebike
I could thrash my kid uphill when he was 10! (I was *sigh* 48 and as fit as I'd ever been), but now, 7 years and a knackered heart later and he leaves me way behind... therein lies (or may do in the not-too-distant future) the need...
Bowglie, I’d suggest you demo one, as you seem curious, then make your own mind up.
Hired an eBike for the day today.
Heart rate:
I'd suggest that counts as a good workout.
I don’t ever preach about my e-bike, if someone asks I’m happy to tell them about it (as I would be any of the bikes I’ve owned). Very rarely get negative comments, and if I do then they’re best laughed off.
Cant believe the negative remarks on this thread from some ( not all )
1.You bust your lungs in 1st gear up a climb - thats fine - you are the Alpha Male
2. You use an ebike, to spin up a climb - you are a Pariah!
What's with the hate? Just love the fact you are out and about on your bike - and enjoying riding. Dont worry about what someone else is riding. ( i ride EMTB and regular )
Peace all 😉
I've got my first eMTB arriving this coming week.
I'm 50 years old, ~80kg and I've been contending for podium places in enduros this year while not considering myself at peak fitness. I could probably do a 20 minute test at 300W (I did a casual 281W this morning) which with a bit of training could probably be brought up a bit higher.
Shall we run a book on what sort of a blob I'll be in a year's time?
Shall we run a book on what sort of a blob I’ll be in a year’s time?
My moneys on you'll be about the same but be a bit better on the downs as you'll be doing a shit load more of them.
Someone will be along to tell you how you've given up on life and hold them up on the descents around Swinley before the thread has finished.
Bowglie, I’d suggest you demo one, as you seem curious, then make your own mind up.
Well, my OH has recently bought a Trek Raul to replace her stolen RocketMAX. Fortunately, we both fit the same size bikes, so I’ve used it for a couple of longish rides - I’ve not laughed out loud on a bike since I was about 12 years old....Great fun.
Just out of curiosity, I’ve tried a couple of other full sus ebikes, and been surprised at just how different various motor systemses feel.
Personally, I still prefer the way my ‘normal’ bike rides on some terrain. If I could afford to, I’d definitely have a burly ebike for natural rides on more demanding terrain, and perhaps something a bit more XC/trail for trail centre type stuff.
I’d suggest that counts as a good workout.
Seems that evidence supports that anecdote.
The average heart rate during eMTB use was 94% (31/33) of the average heart rate during conventional mountain bike use. Therefore, eMTB use in this study achieved a majority of the exercise response and exceeded established biometric thresholds for cardiovascular fitness. Paired t test statistics were calculated to compare beliefs of conventional mountain bikes and eMTBs and to compare mean heart rate and speed between conventional mountain bike and eMTB use on the study loop. Participants overwhelmingly perceived the potential impact of eMTB use to be positive on both pre- and post-eMTB ride questionnaires.
Yeah. I stayed out for the same amount of time I normally do, but covered more distance.
Was very tired out after though - the rest of my muscles (other than the heart/lungs) got more of a workout due to the increased distance.
I was quite surprised at how it felt - the rider has to input a lot more than I expected - the motors feel more natural than I thought? This was a Shimano one. To be fair, the battery was only half charged when I got it so I spent most of the time in Eco mode, with some Trail and tried Boost once or twice - it's pretty ridiculous.
My feeling was that it was like normal mountain biking, but with the niggly bits I don't like gone - the long uphill slogs and the some of the short, sharp, steep technical uphills I've never had the strength for, regardless of training.
Also, I got to ride a long travel full sus instead of my more lightweight trail hardtail so the downhills were much faster too!
I think that if there is a potential (and it remains potential at the moment) problem with e-bikes, it’s not with the members of this forum. Clearly everyone here is a keen mountain biker and an e-bike to them is just another way of enjoying our hobby, which is often about riding something fairly challenging. The problem that’s beginning to affect the Lakes, where I ride a lot, is that trails are being sanitised and I see many more e-bikers than normal mountain bikers out now and many, though by no means all, are less capable and less dedicated than the majority of riders on this forum and they will, I suspect, become the majority and when they do they will demand more access to more fells and that will lead to more trail sanitisation. It’s already beginning to happen with long debates about how accessible the fells should be. It’s a really hard debate because on the one hand it would be great to give access to as many people as possible but on the other, not everywhere can be accessible to everyone and the value of the experience is diluted the more the fells become overcrowded and sanitised. So where do you draw the line? The problem for me and, I think, many on this forum is that the line is moving further towards sanitisation and accessibility, which will necessarily reduce our enjoyment. It’s a very nuanced discussion with no right or wrong answers but for keen mountain bikers, the rise of e-bikes and, later, other forms of e-mobility is likely to result in a significant change in the environment we ride in. My concern is that we’ll end up being forced to ride in specialist parks to get our kicks and that would be very sad for me as I love to ride natural trails.
My concern is that we’ll end up being forced to ride in specialist parks to get our kicks and that would be very sad for me as I love to ride natural trails.
Sounds a bit NIMBY to me although difficult to read it all due to lack of paragraphs 🙂
Where I live I can't see them making any difference.
Rigid, steel, singlespeed. That’s all you need. What, you don’t all agree? Can’t see why.
bwakel
What you see as sanitisation to others is sustainable repair. Paths erode. Well used paths erode more. Not everyone wants eroded messes of paths.
When I first went walking in the lakes the wainright paths were wear marks on the ground from walkers. they eroded and became deep and wide scars on the landscape. Now many of them are armoured built paths.
If you leave them unmaintained erosion proceeds and then people walk and cycle alongside them making them wider thus the erosion spreads as well as deepens. If they are left then you end up with huge scars on the landscape
“E-bike anti-preaching, aren’t we over this yet?”
...at least we’re not arguing about wheel sizes anymore 🙄
If your normal playground is the Lakes then surely there are trails that are impossible to santitise. I don’t own one right now but I’d be interested to see if an ebike would make some of the epic routes in the lakes more enjoyable in terms of making some of the impossible uphills possible. Some amazing all day routes around Haweswater, Helvellyn etc but some of the uphill slogs are impossible to ride up. Perhaps doable on an ebike though?
Ha ha, yes Kelley, I probably am being totally NIMBY.
Tjagain, I’m in total agreement with trail maintenance but the sanitisation isn’t trail maintenance, it’s repurposing. This isn’t the fix the fells stuff, which has its own problems but is understandable, this is replacing trails that weren’t even badly worn with hard pack, smooth surfaces to enable access by more user groups. Highly laudable and done with the best intentions, but it depends how far you go. I admit I’m a dinosaur who’s been walking and riding in the Lakes for 25 years and doesn’t want to see them change too much and maybe I’m in the wrong, but it would be a shame to completely tame somewhere so precious.
Andylc I agree that e-bikes ridden by capable riders open up trails that are very difficult or impossible on normal bikes. That wasn’t my point. I said that for riders on this forum, e-bikes are just a different way to explore trails. The ‘problem’ occurs when the majority of e-bike riders aren’t capable riders but still want access to the fells. I don’t believe there are many places that can’t be sanitised to meet the potential demand of these riders and, in fact, I suspect Helvellyn and possibly Skiddaw would be the earliest to be sanitised. But, hey, I may well be wrong or this may be the greatest democratisation of the fells ever.
bwakel
if you have been in the lakes for 25 years then you must have seen the erosion / repair / erode again pattern many times over. think back to what those paths were like when you first saw them?
tjagain, I have. Not sure you’re reading my posts. This isn’t trail maintenance, it’s repurposing. The decision was made to change the accessibility of certain trails.
Rigid, steel, singlespeed. That’s all you need. What, you don’t all agree? Can’t see why.
Don't even need that - fixed brakeless, that's all you need.
I can’t imagine the average person who isn’t already into mountain biking spending several grand on a ebike? And even then surely they’re going to be pootling around Grizedale rather than trying to ride up Hellvelyn?
bwakel
but5 what were these paths like 25 years ago when you first saw them compared to now?
fixed brakeless, that’s all you need.
Could just go for a walk : )
Hypothetical question. If you were, let’s say a 55+ year old eBike sceptic who’d just had their £6k sub 28lb analog full sus pinched, would you spend the insurance money on a direct replacement, or think about getting an eBike and look around for a cheap second hand analog?
Go and demo one ???
I hired one on holiday and also borrow my brother's sometimes but don't feel I want to buy one for myself yet.
Most important to me I don't think I'd want one as an only bike.
Could just go for a walk
As someone who has loved riding bikes from the age of 4 for the last 50 years I don't think walking is a good option.
Just don’t want this thread to die, do you?
I'd say this thread title wins the 2019 irony award. 10 pages of preaching and its not done yet.
Do i feel the need to ramn in people’s faces that what I’ve chosen is the best, no, that’s just silly.
Chevy, I think the OP was talking about you.
I find the lack of humour amongst overly-touchy ebikers amusing @Squirrelking. It's like prodding an angry molerat.
Video's a good 'un btw 🙂
No, it's tedious and I'm pretty they stopped giving a crap a long time ago. Just let it die.
I find the lack of humour amongst overly-touchy ebikers amusing
It could be their lack of humour or maybe it is because you are not funny? I know which option my money is on.
Me and my lads, 7 and 9, (ages not hippy names🙄) went for a tootle round FoD today. Busy! Wow. The amount of eBikes was eye opening. They do look great fun, interesting to note that there appear to be eBike shortcuts developing on a lot of the switchback climbs, taking advantage of the extra torque available. Given that they appear to be able to sustain climbs on a steeper gradient than non motorised bikes, hows about they get their own, steeper, shorter climbs to the top of the trailhead, then they can crack on down the same descents where their advantage is less pronounced? It would save my lads having to give way to the whirring contraptions frequently and becoming disheartened by it. My eldest started loudly commenting “oh look it’s another cheater bike” as they went past in the end (he’d get on well on here I reckon) I had to shush him a few times 😂🙄.
Seriously though, I can’t believe that they are allowed on trails. They are going to increase trail erosion no end.
I think we're nearly at the point with design, weight and price that that all the "haters" will have to concede defeat
I wander if chevy is still trying to **** himself thinner while using his hate of ebikes as a motive...
What happened to kenevo19's post and my reply?
No shit Onion. 🙃
Holy thread resurrection!
Meh...