I'm eMTB curious but I'm questioning the reliability of the tech. I have a work colleague with an eMTB and from what he tells me its continually breaking down as are his mates eMTBs. Dunno whether the motor and battery tech is sufficiently mature yet or maybe its using ordinary bike parts on what is basically a motorbike. Anyway any recommendations for bikes/motors to look at for maximum reliability?
Concerns about the durability of the "E" parts of such a bike have always been my reservation.
After last week's hire, part of me is really tempted to get a Raleigh Motus Grand Tour or Centros in their own site sale.
But then I've read many times, best to get an e-bike from a local store, so it's relatively easy to drop it in when things go wrong.
But going on posts in the last year or so, avoid Giant bikes in general, warranty is useless.
As @Masterdabber said, with an ebike I’m more likely to explore a random trail or track that I see because if it turns out to be rubbish I can just spin or blast back up the hill whereas before bombing down a 1-3 minute track might mean a 20 minute slog or push back up. Now it’s just a few minutes and I haven’t wasted time and energy.
zerocoolFull Member
As @Masterdabber said, with an ebike I’m more likely to explore a random trail or track that I see because if it turns out to be rubbish I can just spin or blast back up the hill whereas before bombing down a 1-3 minute track might mean a 20 minute slog or push back up. Now it’s just a few minutes and I haven’t wasted time and energy.
Exactly this.... I probably never explained myself very well earlier.
I have a work colleague with an eMTB and from what he tells me its continually breaking down as are his mates eMTBs.
What bikes do they have ? So possibly avoid those seems the easy solution.
maybe its using ordinary bike parts on what is basically a motorbike.
Well its not really is it. its basically pedaling and you get an assist, so its like having really really strong legs. Motorbike has a motor that drives it,and with the ebike if you dont turn the pedals then you dont go anywhere.
Anyway any recommendations for bikes/motors to look at for maximum reliability?
Again, that question isnt easy to answer. My Bosch has lasted me fine for 3 years, so I would say Bosch.
But others might have Bosch and experience issues. and the same goes for Shimano, or any manufacturer.
If you look at Bosch. Who are Bosch and what do they do. Bosch make motors which are powered by batteries. Well known and respected maker of professional tools. So its safe to assume they make a good product, because thats where their experience lies.
Well its not really is it. its basically pedaling and you get an assist,
Yes an assist from a motor. Yes legally its an assisted pedal cycle. But really as far as the components are concerned its a motor bike with 100 NM of torque and 0.34 HP of power.
Yes an assist from a motor. Yes legally its an assisted pedal cycle. But really as far as the components are concerned its a motor bike with 100 NM of torque and 0.34 HP of power.
From a reluctant e-bike owner. No, it is not a motorbike as far as the components are concerned. To start with, it doesn’t have a throttle and it only supplies torque that supports the input the rider provides. Find a motorbike without a throttle and that responds to the riders physical power output.
Hadn’t been out on it for months, splendid ride this morning though, maybe I like it again !
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I was out at Hopton yesterday and blown away by how good the Rise is. It's a hilly place and plenty of bits I'd be off and walking for sure, even if I could get up it, I'd be too dead to enjoy it.
Regrets, ermnm not getting a Rise sooner ???
It also meant I could Zwift race today as well.
I’ve come to the conclusion there’s no absolutely perfect ebike and loads of myths / rose glasses.
i love my rise but hate my rise for all the mechanicals it has. Not much of what is currently on it is what it left the shop with due to failures of one sort or another.
chatting to a chap out a few weeks ago about his levo i think it was. I was moaning about the crap reliability of the orbea rise to which he replied “i love this bike. Superb. Deffo have another. Its Had 6 motors on it as they all crap outetc etc…” Cue horrified look!
as my riding mate says “we’re pioneers in the early days of ebikes” Bottom line is electrics and uk climate just dont mix IMHO. with all the extra power a motor brings, the weight of a motor and battery, mud n gritty grinding paste for 350 out of the 365 riding days and underneath the marketing BS its all pretty much bog standard acoustic bike kit I think all ebikes will suffer to some extent compared to acoustic then factor in the way we all ride and where we ride you’ll get loads of different stories.
if i rode my rise only dry weather dusty trails it’d be fine. I ride all weathers and where i ride its predominantly mud and grit and can almost predict what’ll fail and when.
if you go in eyes open and expect more running costs then they’re all of a muchness but some are more problematic than others to haul over gates n fences due tothe weight
But if like i did you go in expecting reliability, longevity and overall running cost of acoustic bikes then you’re in for a big surprise
I've an orbea 2022 wild and have had no issue at all with the motor or other ebike components in the last 15months and 1000miles. It's an amazing bike and rides great.
My only regret is that I put a bunch of high end drivetrain parts on it that I had spare, and now after 1000miles they've all worn out - ebikes really do eat drivetrains.
The newest lightweight full power bikes that are coming out, like the AMflow, really show where ebikes are going. Just need to mix if into a package with a potion mgu.
What a legend. Love these threads in which a bunch of people who ride expensive engine-powered bikes convince each other that it’s great for fitness.
Possibly the biggest endorsement of eBikes on this forum yet is that it took 3 full days and almost 2 full pages of responses until anyone decided to wade in with their ignorant prejudices!
You do you… If you believe that you need to be doing max exertion all of the time to be “fit” then don’t let me stop you…
Tell me this then… Why is it so many pro MTBer’s now use eBikes for a lot of their training? Is it because the actual activity of riding the mountain bike itself is arguably the least important part to their training schedule maybe? And that structured gym and turbo sessions are far more important, when combined with the ability to ride a bike that not only allows them to get out and ride further but also allows them to tailor the effort required it at any given moment… I spoke to Nick Craig a while back about his Scott Lumen, he said it’s easily his favourite bike and he was riding it more than anything else, putting the same amount of effort in as he would on anything else and covering twice the distance and climbing, or simply just using it to go out on an easy recovery ride that he may have otherwise had to do on the turbo trainer…
I was stationed next to the Yeti team at EWS in Innerleithen year before last, one of the mechs there told me that Richie Rude literally never rides a non eBike except to race on it, the eBike allows for much better structured training and simply a better descending to climbing ratio meaning more time practicing the descents too…
For my own situation, which you chose to ignore, like many others for me it had unfortunately become a case of riding an eBike or not riding at all… I hope you never have a long term illness, much as I hope to be as fit as I was 7yrs ago again and able to enjoy riding conventional MTB’s as much again as I used to…
possibly the most feeble justification yet! For me curiosity & satisfaction of occasionally finding a decent new trail/route trumps “oh I can’t be bothered” 🙂 I also actually enjoy riding a bike which helps I guess.
Easily a brilliant justification if you actually tend to ride anywhere particularly technical and steep…
Its funny just how much derision people get for riding a bike with an electric motor for assistance, yet nobody bats an eyelid at someone with a DH bike getting a lift to the top…
“Its funny just how much derision people get for riding a bike with an electric motor for assistance, yet nobody bats an eyelid at someone with a DH bike getting a lift to the top…”
There is a certain sort of old school XC rider who thinks this a travesty - despite MTBing as we know it beginning with a load of uplifted klunkers in California…
No, it is not a motorbike as far as the components are concerned. To start with, it doesn’t have a throttle and it only supplies torque that supports the input the rider provides. Find a motorbike without a throttle and that responds to the riders physical power output.
It really doesn't matter that it doesn't have a throttle. It provides more power and torque than even an elite cyclist can generate. The components on the bike see power and torque above what they would see on a non-eMTB and from what I've heard and also seen on this thread this leads to more wear and failures of drivetrains before we even get to motors failing.
It really doesn’t matter that it doesn’t have a throttle. It provides more power and torque than even an elite cyclist can generate.
That isn’t even remotely true though is it… Most eBikes can deliver an additional 500W peak power in short bursts, or 250W continuously… But you’ll deplete the battery very quickly if you do this.
Chris Hoy could deliver over 2 kilowatts at his peak in a sprint, most Pro Tour sprinters can sustain well over 1 kilowatt in a bunch sprint, I remember an interview with Bradley Wiggins after he won the TdF in 2012 after he won the final TT where he said he had to sustain 440W for an hour to do so…
The components on the bike see power and torque above what they would see on a non-eMTB and from what I’ve heard and also seen on this thread this leads to more wear and failures of drivetrains
Can’t disagree with you here. The sooner that we see integrated motor/gearbox units like the Pinion one, the sooner we can ditch the outdated derailleur gear setup… You will find that Pro Elite sprinters will likely get at least a new chain after every sprint finish if not quite a whole new drivetrain, with the peak power they can put through a drivetrain significantly outweighing that put through by an average weekend warrior on his eMTB…
It really doesn’t matter that it doesn’t have a throttle. It provides more power and torque than even an elite cyclist can generate. The components on the bike see power and torque above what they would see on a non-eMTB and from what I’ve heard and also seen on this thread this leads to more wear and failures of drivetrains before we even get to motors failing.
Which is us that are paying attention are replacing worn out components with those more up to the job.
I've just replaced the worn out 12spd XO that came on my SL eBike with Shimano Linkglide 11spd - even if it's no more durable it's about a 1/3 of the price.
Glad someone sensible chimed in with comparisons between ebike power and human power.
Find the fitness impact chat skewed away from where I'm at. Sure ebikes are effective training tools for the athletic elite, to achieve specific goals, but the reason why they're fit is far from just riding an ebike. Take a different use case, which does cover a majority, which is ride once a week frequently, getting in a second ride infrequently, does no other activity, going from analogue to ebike, of course there's going to be a loss in fitness, but if that same rider now rides 4 times a week because the ebike makes it more accessible, they can totally be gaining fitness.
No regrets here, the opposite in fact. I bought a Whyte E160RSX 18 months ago because all my mates had full fat bikes and it has been brilliant, revitalizing my riding at the ripe age of 69 (not that I needed revitalizing, I'm always up for a ride). Done 4000 odd k since I got it with no problems or issues. Before I got it I was getting sucked into gravel biking, easy MTB pootling without really recognizing it was an age/energy level thing. Since getting it I've been back into big rocks, tech etc. It's also changed my winter riding after reading Ben's test of a range of winter bike options about a year ago. He came to the conclusion that you can just ride through the depths of winter mud and that's what I did last year with all the storms. Came out of winter in a much better mental state than usual thanks to the fact that even awful weather can't stop the MTB fun. Considering selling my non bikes now
I know I’m not old (to be honest I’m in denial that I’m middle-aged) but I’m sure my recovery time after exercise now I’m mid 40s must be much longer than when I was 20 or 30 years younger - that’s why few pro athletes are my age, if the injuries haven’t got them the inability to get as many quality training hours in has.
Add in the rigours of work and other life demands, a bike that can let you have an easier ride when you need to is such a joy. Add another decade or two or three of ageing and the ebike’s benefits are even greater.
I wish Shimano would get their marketing/OEM sales act together and have the bike companies fitting LinkGlide drivetrains instead of less durable and more expensive yet nominally lighter HyperGlide or SRAM stuff.
https://www.cyclesolutions.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/ridgeback-x2-2023-electric-urban-hybrid-bike--blue__71969 was posted on hotukdeals last night and I stayed up far too late trying to get more info.
Why are so many e-bikes that aren't MTBs, look hidious? The non-integrated battery on down tube isn't great, but the rest of the frame look is a positive to me compared to most I've looked at.
It's not the model I hired at Center Parcs two weeks ago, that one was a "traditional" low step of unknown model, couldn't see an identifier on the frame.
Motor and battery of this ~£1100 deal look ok, Shimano Steps 5000, supposedly max distance 130Km on eco... Although Ridgeback's own details say max 180Km.
But Alhonga hydraulic brakes and Microshift 1x9? No experience of.
40nM torque is apparently quite low, but I'd want to put some effort in up hills above the motor, for example I climbed King Alfred's Tower road in eco mode just about in easiest gear on CP hol ride... With heart rate getting up to 165 (my z5) up the final steep section of ~1min.
Any thoughts, please?
Dipping back in as the OP, it’s been a good read and sort of points me where I should be looking if I take the leap. One theme seems to be to match what your riding mates have, don’t go full fat if they lite, and vice versa.
I think I’d err on a mid power for now. I’d be keen to keep the fitness I have still having to put a bit of effort in, but at the moment, can’t see the acquisition of an e-bike suddenly seeing me riding more rides per week. Ideally, I’d go a lot further on the rides I do have.
Those Spesh LevoSL on offer look good, with the V2 motor. Fuel Exe still looks a great packaged bike but the Orbea Rise (original shape) seems to have cornered the market on discounts v spec.
don’t go full fat if they lite,
I beg to differ, its possible to ride a ff bike in low power mode and youll still get a workout and a grand day out.
don’t go full fat if they lite,
I beg to differ, its possible to ride a ff bike in low power mode and youll still get a workout and a grand day out.
This
I ride mine like a lite MOST of the time @ 12% assist in eco, just using trail and turbo occasionally
I bought a Vitus E-Mythique LT VR about a month before Crc went into administration. A bit of upgrading done and a motor repair too.
It's been fantastic, try to ride mostly in eco/eco+ when out in a group of e and normal bikes.
Have had the odd solo spin in trail/boost. It's laughable in those modes. Using brakes on climbs is a new one for me.
I was put off going out on my normal bike to harder trails with groups of fitter riders. I just didn't want to suffer and would end up giving it a miss, so getting even less fit.
Nowhere is off the table now. The Vitus is a lump of a bike but rides well and stops well with big brakes.
I might go lighter next time though. I rode my normal bike for about a month (Giant Trance) while I tried to fix the bafang motor. I really appreciated the lack of weight for all round handling and better feel.
Being realistic, I'm not gonna get the fitness back that I used to have, but I'm not any less fit than before I got the e bike. Riding the Trance for a month showed me that. Hopefully it stays like that or even a bit of improvement.
I'll stay with e bikes as long as it's financially viable.
Hired a Levo yesterday at Glentress, had a good days riding and was sore and tired after (more sore than I thought I'd be).
I took it back with 3% battery left, and that's even with a charge at lunchtime. Managed 62km with just over 2200 metres of climbing. Rode it mostly in eco but did use boost and trail occasionally. The odd thing I found was enjoying the Singletrack climbs more than the descents.
I reckon I'll just hire when I fancy a shot of an eebs and keep riding my normal bikes the rest of the time.
For as good a day I had ebiking, I dont think I'd actually own a Levo, the weight really sucked the life out of regular trails.
Just another note, I hired an SL Levo before and enjoyed it more than the Levo. But the range is a limiter on the SL.
Just another note, I hired an SL Levo before and enjoyed it more than the Levo. But the range is a limiter on the SL.
Not for me.
There's only one full-fat in our group that has the range of my SL (with extender), and that's got an 900Wh battery.
Why are so many e-bikes that aren’t MTBs, look hidious? The non-integrated battery on down tube isn’t great
Thats in the eye and all that, but external battery mean you can swap them quicker and remove them (if you have a spare) to charge inside, which some ppl prefer
Anyway any recommendations for bikes/motors to look at for maximum reliability?
Bosch does 'sound' to be more reliable inthe short term, but you cannot get any internals part of them (ok two, one being a gasket) out of warranty. The Brose system, you can buy all the parts . Not sure about Yamaha, but I wouldn't touch giant ****ed with yamaha, with Boris's barge pole. As for shimano, you may as well bin them, when they fail
as a full fat owner, I would advise against owning one as your only bike. especially if your local riding is flat. also the temptation to ride everywhere in turbo destroys fitness levels.
Why is it so many pro MTBer’s now use eBikes for a lot of their training?
Since the dawn of time, pro cyclists (apart from a few individuals with more clout) have generally ridden what their sponsor tells them to ride. I assume the margins are better on e-bikes, so it would be surprising if the manufacturers were not encouraging their sponsored riders to promote those as much as possible. I think you would have to analyse every pro's training in detail to demonstrate that they are actually using eBikes for "a lot" of their training.
LOL @KCR that really is stretching
I slightly regret not waiting six months/a year for the new bike that just came out
That’s eBike ownership in a nutshell, it’s moving fast, there’s something new and better every month
Is it? I bought a Bosch motor Focus Jam2 in late 2020 and I can't say there has been anything spectacular that has changed since I bought it really.
ogden
Is it? I bought a Bosch motor Focus Jam2 in late 2020 and I can’t say there has been anything spectacular that has changed since I bought it really.
I bought mine six months ago, since then the Nicolai Pinion MGU has come out, plus the DJI motor/bike, a whole swathe of lightweight Bosch motor bikes, and the new Bosch Generation 5 motors just two weeks back, including your own bike being updated.
I can't be bothered starting another thread about this but something to bear in mind is that the increasing number of fires caused by ebikes/escooters means that landlords are banning them from their premises. At work our landlord has just banned all ebikes/escooters from the building. I see they've also banned them from the residential tower blocks they own...
As my other bike is a singlespeed hardtail geared for off-road use and is really rather annoying for mixed road/off-road commuting because you spin out so easily, this morning I commuted on my Levo with the battery removed (noticeably nippier on the first pedal stroke and a bit more springy when jumping, maybe a little quicker to turn too).
I'm less furious now and just thankful that I don't NEED an ebike to commute on and didn't buy the Levo for this purpose, unlike other tenants with dedicated commuter ebikes... But seriously, FFS.
Loving mboy's bizarre references to pro cyclists when discussing eebs and their usage by STWers:
Tell me this then… Why is it so many pro MTBer’s now use eBikes for a lot of their training?
I was stationed next to the Yeti team at EWS in Innerleithen year before last, one of the mechs there told me that Richie Rude literally never
Chris Hoy could deliver over 2 kilowatts at his peak in a sprint, most Pro Tour sprinters can sustain well over 1 kilowatt in a bunch sprint, I remember an interview with Bradley Wiggins after he won the TdF in 2012 after he won the final TT
My biggest regret currently is knowing I've got to take the motor out tomorrow to change a gear cable.
#BringBackExternalRouting
My biggest regret currently is knowing I’ve got to take the motor out tomorrow to change a gear cable.
Sounds like a good excuse to go to axs
My biggest regret currently is knowing I’ve got to take the motor out tomorrow to change a gear cable.
Brake swap on my Orbea needed that too due to routing. I got my lbs to do it as I couldn't be arsed.
+ 1 for axs.
If I didn't find myself bending rear mechs every couple of months, I'd consider AXS.
As it is, I've resigned myself to Deore from now on because XTs were becoming an expensive habit. I think I'd cry if I wrecked a £300 derailleur.
Can you get spares? Cages etc?
Yes you can. Ratio Technology also do cages.
Cube stereo here, once I had sorted out the cheese ring and forks, I love it. I do 100 plus miles a week on road or turbo so will either do big days in the hills or trail centres mostly in eco and get decent range for that. Only regret is that I didn’t buy a 2023 carbon Levo as the new 2.2 motor seems sorted. I am going to keep this one another couple of years and see where the tech has gone by then. Best cycling purchase ever, even if the mech,frame and motor are the only original parts left after a year
My biggest regret currently is knowing I’ve got to take the motor out tomorrow to change a gear cable.
Brake swap on my Orbea needed that too due to routing. I got my lbs to do it as I couldn’t be arsed.
Why can't we have cable sleeves end to end like on non-e bikes?
“Why can’t we have cable sleeves end to end like on non-e bikes?”
The packaging of MTBs around the BB has always been really difficult, and then you add suspension and it gets worse (apart from a few designs) and then try to stick a motor in there and still get the cables etc past there whilst making the frame look as non-e as possible.
But if hoses can cables will go, why can't they go in a sleeve?
My suspicion is they could but brands figured out they can get away without doing it because customers put up with it.
I've looked at the cable/hose diagram of my bike and there are no obstacles.
Why can’t we have cable sleeves end to end like on non-e bikes?
Some do... My trek fuel exe has a sleeve, no issue replacing the rear brake on that, just poke it in the hole in the frame and it comes out the other end.
Why can’t we have cable sleeves end to end like on non-e bikes?
New Rise sort of has but adds headset routing to complicate it. Fitted rear brake on K's and it wasn't easy, but it did guide it from the head tube to the chain stay exit eventually.