[Closed] E Bike Deliberation - check my working please

Well I won't help you on what bike but you don't need a carbon frame on an ebike until you have to lift it over a gate. You will be far better off with better components.

On the lookout myself for another ebike but cant do with clitoris bikes that every**** has and then posts a picture of it somehow thinking it looks different to to exactly the same bike as all the others.

Looks like you've narrowed it down and know what you are after, i had similar, the E8000 motor is not a bad one, it might be slightly older than the Gen 4 and newer Brose, but it does a good job, it's just unfortunate the batteries are still back in the 500wh range in most bikes with them.

I had similar thoughts, ended up with a cube stereo hybrid 160, 27.5 with Gen 4 and 625wh battery, have already had two rides where i've exhausted the battery, so range wise i'm happy enough, same with DH style stuff, it gets me up the hill enough times to make it worth it.

29" sounds your thing, that Orbea is pretty much spot on, best value for money in that wheelsize and geometry, i went the other way, wanted a 27.5 over a 29, so that was all that stopped me getting the H15, although the specialized are always on the list, was eyeing the 700wh levo comp, but that was over 600 quid more than the orbea, with a slightly lower kit on it.

Re warranty, agree with general logic of looking for decent warranty and support. But your ref to the Whyte only having 4 years warranty I think is unrealistic expectations. I wonder how many of those warranties, particularly when more than 2 years, would truly be honoured. Also, I’d be more concerned about motor and battery warranty than frame, and would guess they’ll be limited to 12/24 months in most cases. Even then like cars the warranty usually assumes beyond 12 months you’ve serviced via approved service centre (focus/Shimano warranty says this).

Anyway, it’s a factor but be realistic about the value you place in a warranty, and how likely it will be needed or honoured. I’d probably be more concerned about how easily you could get support ie LBS vs online purchase. Though I took the view that £800 saved by buying online More than covered me shipping back if I had an issue.

Thanks for thoughts all. I actually only looked at warranty as the last thing when I had got th shortlist down. There are stories around regarding brilliant support from Trek for frames which are very old (not ebikes obvs). They've been running a lifetime warranty for years and seem to stand behind it from the reading I've done. Agree about motor being more likely to break. Bosch seem to have the best setup - 2 year rolling.

I’ve no experience of anything other than Shimano e8000 on a focus jam2. Wouldn’t rule out Shimano, while older also means tried and tested and I’ve not heard many horror stories about e8000 motor failures. Whereas Spesh/brose seems to have had issues.

I had an Orbea Wild briefly and it’s a hugely capable bike, infact way beyond my abilities. I had a horrible simple crash on it, all my fault, not the bike, and after 7 months of rehab I have just bought a Spesh Levo SL. For me the Levo gives a great balance of just enough with a very nimble feel.

My riding buddy has done 8600 miles in 2 years on his shimano E8000 motor, pretty impressive.

I bought the rail 5 (625 watt) and it is 1.6 Kilo heavier than the 9.8 (23.5 kg in comparison to 21.9kg) bear in mind the 5 is £4150 as opposed to the 9.8 £6250-6800 so over half the price again for a bike that is slightly lighter than a heavy bike which when you use it the battery takes the strain anyway.I would really struggle to justify the extra cash on a bike that really lightness does not matter so much. BTW the Rail is a really great bike feels like it can handle anything

Anyone have examples of issues on the new Bosch?

I've got Trek Rail 7 and it's awesome. To be honest it wouldn't be my first choice if I was spending £5-6K, that would be a Whyte E180, but it was as a result of Trek's excellent warranty and CS after I discovered hairline cracks in the lower shock mount on my Powerfly. I took the PF to the shop on a Saturday, they emailed pics to Trek on the Monday and Trek responded with an offer of a replacement frame or huge discount off any new Trek on the Tuesday. Shop had a Rail 7 in the right size and colour so it was a no brainer.

The ally Orbea was on the list too, but it's a bit of a tank (even by eBike standards) and I genuinely think the Rail is better looking.

I would have preferred carbon as it's nearly 2KG lighter but the actual spec of the 9.7 is inferior to the 7 even though it costs more.

Anyone have examples of issues on the new Bosch?

Yes. On Sunday mine threw up the 504 (Tuning detected) error code. The bike goes into limp mode and needs to be ridden for 90 minutes to reset the error. Luckily it happened at the end of the ride. I haven't tuned my bike but it's a known issue on the early firmware. I had the Drive Unit firmware updated and it seems fine now.

falkirk-mark, interesting ideas and would be good to try out the bikes on a real ride, once we can. The hype suggests they have similar overall range, depending on fitness, though I’m a fat bastid right now, but no way the Levo SL would hold a pace on the hills. And as nobeer will testify, I’ll fall off pretty soon on the way down ..

But I’d be fun anyway 😀

Thanks yes, 9.7 definitely looks one to avoid, poor componentry fo sho

PS Whyte e 180 would be too much bike I think, and also only comes in an L (I'd need XL)

Also thank for confirming warranty experience with trek. How old was the powerfly?

23 months and 2500 miles of hard riding in all weather conditions, crashing and general abuse. In that time it had 4 motors (old Bosch), two rear wheels, one front wheel (nothing wrong with it, Trek sent a pair as the replacement rear wouldn't match the front), 1 set of Yari forks (creaking CSU, dealt with by Sprung, not Trek), all under warranty with no quibbles at all.

I'm going coil as soon as TFTuned have Smashpots back in stock and my LBS get a DVO Jade X in on SOR from Windwave to check clearance in my medium frame.

F'kinell! Many of those things obviously not a trek issue.
I was more wondering if it was quite an old frame but they warranted it anyway. Good(?)to hear no quibbles on that amount of work though

Daft question time - what's a "rolling" warranty?

As I understand it, if you get 1nyear into a 2 year warranty and it needs replacing, when you get the new unit the clock resets and you get 2 more years. Forgot where I read it, should probably re-find that to be sure!

OK thanks - so if you have no problems within 2 years the warranty just runs out?

Yep

Are any of these bikes in stock anywhere in common sizes? A lot of them seem to be on pre-order for September when the 2021 models are out

Seem thin on the ground based in where I've been looking, but I've not been fastidious in looking. I'm at the point of nailing options, next thing is to actually committ or not

Indeed, depending on when you looking to buy, stock sounds to be an issue for most manufacturers. Though 2nd hand bargain may start appearing when the weather turns later in the year.
Again I wouldn’t discount to Shimano 8000 motor, it’s pretty damned solid & only a little off the power of the newer Bosch/brose units. There is now a bigger 630w battery available (OEM but aftermarket atm) for externally battery mounted frames, which I do note you aren’t keen on, but thought I’d mention it.
I have the Levo & couldn’t be more pleased, had a replacement motor (1000miles in, I believe the belt snapped) but for all the reports, no one complains about specsh’s warranty service

I have a bike with the Shimano 8000 motor. I really like it.
The Shimano warranty is 3 years on all the electronic gubbins (battery/motor.controller etc).
My bike is a Saracen, so comes from Madison who are also the Shimano distributor in the UK so pretty confident it would get sorted out OK if anything went wrong.

Something to bear in mind is the E8000 is imminently about to be replaced. You do see newer bikes coming with the bigger battery now (Norco Sight for example).

The only one I would consider adding to the list would be that, the only real downside is you have to deal with Evans. I would ditch the Mondraker off as they are terrible VFM, poor reliability & warranty support.

That said however, I have just ordered a Rail myself. I have to wait a little while as it's the '21 bike (July/August) as it fitted the bill overall for me. A massive plus is I race for a shop that has a big Trek supported team & I can get a 9.9 for less than a 5 - It was on the top of my list anyway, but the cost swung it for me, bigtime.

Thanks, I looked for info about when the e8000 would be replaced but couldn't find any. Do you have any idea on timeline? I am not desperate to jump in so it might be worth me waiting to see how the next iteration reviews.

Also a question about motors and batteries - does the interface to the frame meet a standard? Either globally or just within a brand? Just wondering if a motor/battery upgrade is feasible in future.

Nothing to add on the bikes themselves but in general, I’ve had very, very good warranty experiences with both Trek and with Orbea. Both have sorted issues quickly and without problems.
I’ll add that part of that may have been down to a good LBS, so I’d be making sure the shop I was buying from had a good reputation and you could get their easily.

Don't forget the check the Orbea Outlet site. They have some Wilds on there.

Is the Shimano motor due to be replaced though? I’d assumed that shimano’s last announcement would be a new motor, I’d expected one, but no it was new batteries for their current motors.. anyone with any industry knowledge know if this is the case, not just rumours or expectation?

Didn’t realise the Norco Sight had an option for a piggy back battery, very cool. But my concern would be with a Norco, the same as YT or Focus, they’re using in-house batteries, how long are they going to support them for?

I have a bosch powered cube stereo hybrid, 120 fr and rear 29er.
It’s been faultless.
It’s a 2015 model, but bought in 2017, i have changed a few things to better suit me, so it has worked out a bit more expensive, but it’s still a great bike.
No issues with motor or battery, I snapped a chain after a couple of hundred miles but no issues since.
I have read (online, take with a pinch of salt) that there are occasional bearing issues with the motor, due to crap being pushed from the chain, onto the tiny front sprocket and then into the drive side bearings. Hasn’t happened to me, but i can understand how it could, so I’d say the newer bosch motor with the conventional chainring is probably better.
I’ve ridden an older one that had close to 5000 miles on the motor, it didn’t really feel any different tbh, maybe slightly noisier than mine but splitting hairs i think.
Mine is a 400wh battery, I’ve managed to flatten it in 14 miles (offroad, severe climbs)
I’ve also done more than 30 miles on road but only used about 60%.
I weigh about 19 stone, and i was heavier when I got the bike.
I haven’t ridden the shimano motor, or the Specialized one, but I wouldn’t discount either of them, shimano stuff just works, as for specialized, well they are very popular, so you are bound to hear about failures more, but i don’t think they are actually worse on a percentage basis.
I definitely wouldn’t buy mail order, unless it was saving me a couple of thousand quid, just in case i did have a problem with the motor or battery LBS ftw here.
I wouldn’t worry about weight either tbh, unless you plan to lift it over gates a lot.
Finally, the big test for me is “would i buy the same thing again?”
No, I probably wouldn’t.
BUT, that’s because about a year after i got mine I smashed my leg up pretty badly at work and i no longer have full movement in my ankle.
If i was buying again, I’d be looking for a rigid or hardtail, with an integrated battery, so that I could fit a framebag and rack etc to go camping with.
PS:they are chuffing brilliant btw!!

Also a question about motors and batteries – does the interface to the frame meet a standard? Either globally or just within a brand? Just wondering if a motor/battery upgrade is feasible in future.

all motor/batteries supplied from shimano/Bosch/brose have there own standard fittings but motor wise, none to my knowledge can be swapped with a new version of those motors (eg: a Bosch cx motor cannot be replaced with a Bosch Gen 4, and the same goes for Broses 1.3 vs 2.1 motors), and definitely not between these manufacturers. Battery wise I believe only shimano system has been altered by bike manufacturers to use in house batteries, rather than OEM shimano ones (Unless you count spesch, who use their own & not one supplied by Brose)

Experience of the Bosch motor re: issues. A friend of mine has a whyte E150RS and has had the 504 error twice now, both due to impact from falling off (even though the error is 'tuning detected').

There is a three strikes and locked out rule for this code, so he has been in contact with Whyte and indirectly with Bosh to get it sorted/cleared. Both companies have been great with their service and commitment, although Bosch have now admitted there is an issue with the current firmware that throws up this issue so there is an update coming.

I've been looking for an ebike and my money will be going on a Trek Rail 7 eventually, for all the reasons you've stated!

Thanks, I looked for info about when the e8000 would be replaced but couldn’t find any. Do you have any idea on timeline? I am not desperate to jump in so it might be worth me waiting to see how the next iteration reviews.

It's apparently called the EP8 - some (grainy) info here:

A friend of mine has a whyte E150RS and has had the 504 error twice now, both due to impact from falling off (even though the error is ‘tuning detected’).

Interesting. How has he linked the crashes to the error code? Is it just because they happened on the same ride? How long between crash and error code? I had a pretty big crash the day I got my 504 error code but there was at least 30 minutes between them.

The firmware update has been out for a while now, he needs to be on DU version 1.0.3.0 but even that isn't a guarantee of not getting the 504 error apparently.

I ride a whyte e180.
Both the 180 and 150 have been designed alongside Bosch's new battery soon to be released, a 750wh. As told to me by the whyte designer

https://www.blazingbikes.co.uk/index.php/brands/trek/trek-rail-2021/trek-rail-9-2021-electric-mountain-bike.html

2021 Trek Rail 9 looks great - new Zeb 38mm fork, Code brakes, super deluxe ultimate rear shock

Hob Nob

Something to bear in mind is the E8000 is imminently about to be replaced. You do see newer bikes coming with the bigger battery now (Norco Sight for example).

The only one I would consider adding to the list would be that, the only real downside is you have to deal with Evans. I would ditch the Mondraker off as they are terrible VFM, poor reliability & warranty support.

Norco was top of my list, but they're not all that well put together it seems, lack of sealing, wobbly cable routing, external speed sensor and a magnet on the spokes - I thin they're one model year away form being really well sorted.

Mondraker was the other brand I was considering, but as above, every Mondraker I've ever seen has had pivot bolts falling out of it, and I'd be very slow to buy an EBike from a brand who can't do reliable pedal bikes.

Thought about Commencal, but smaller battery puts me off. That new shimano motor stuff above is very interesting.

I think I'm just going to hold off for the next generation.

echo a number of the comments on the trek rails above, i've got a Rail 9 and it's a very capable bike. i couldn't justify paying extra for the carbon for bikes that weigh c 50 lbs (having said that my mate has a YT decoy and his definitely feels more lively, but that may not be the carbon frame).

treks warranty is great, my battery self ejected whist riding and scratched up the face plate. within a week trek had sent me the new face plate and provided assurances on the battery integrity. as a side note, the self ejecting batteries is a known fault on the powerflys and the rails and down to connectors in the down tube not being aligned properly. its a 5 minute fix using a T25 ,and the easiest way to tell if you might have an issue is the lock not being in the centre of the key hole on the frame on the non drive side.

have ridden the bosch gen 4 motor back to back with the shimano E800 and prefer the feel of the bosch, also feels like it delivers power better for climbing. i think you'll struggle to get the 70K upper range you are looking for unless its lots of flattish connecting road, hardpack track. i get about 50K max out of mine using eco mode for road work, tour for the climbs and single track and emtb when i'm getting tired, but then i am c 16st kitted up (emtb mode is great btw). also as the bosch system is designed to be modulr it's highly likely they bring out a higher watt hours battery in future that will be backwards compatible

only other comments would be the rail is not a quiet bike, the bosch motor is noisier than i though it would be and i've read reports of them getting louder as they get older. they also suffer from a light rattle when freewheel descending fast on rocky / rooty surfaces, you can replicated it by lifted the bike a foot or two off the ground an dropping it.

i was split between the trek and the YT, but went for trek because of the ease of warranty and UK dealer network, pleased i did

Norco was top of my list, but they’re not all that well put together it seems, lack of sealing, wobbly cable routing, external speed sensor and a magnet on the spokes – I thin they’re one model year away form being really well sorted.

Yeah when I started this thought train I didn't quite appreciate the integration side of things really. I was more focussed on the size & fit, which they have nailed, just the other bits less so.

The Rail ended up being a no brainer really. It's pretty good on the numbers, the 9.8 I rode this year was great to ride, Trek support is good & the Gen4 Bosch motors seem on the whole good (I appreciate they all have their quirks however).

I had been delaying for a while, but with an impending move to a more ebike friendly area with the terrain to support it, I thought jump in. If this was a discussion on the retail prices, the Rail at nearly £10k is a joke however.

Kind of feel like it might end up being my most used bike & i'll be a total evangelist.

Hob Nob

I was more focussed on the size & fit, which they have nailed, just the other bits less so.

Exactly that - geometry wise, Norco, Mondraker and Specialized were the only ones that I'd go for, but I've ruled them all out

Keep your eye out in case the Vitus VRS come back on sale.. I know it is the old motor and 500wh battery but at the reduced price of £3.2k with XT and Fox suspension it is unbeatable value I think.

I think I’m just going to hold off for the next generation.

Thing is, there will always be something newer and betterer just around the corner....

Jump in and get one bought, it's the best thing anyone with an ebike has done

Yeah, all you can ever do is buy the best available, there’s always something new and better on the way.

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A friend of mine has a whyte E150RS and has had the 504 error twice now, both due to impact from falling off (even though the error is ‘tuning detected’).

Interesting. How has he linked the crashes to the error code? Is it just because they happened on the same ride? How long between crash and error code? I had a pretty big crash the day I got my 504 error code but there was at least 30 minutes between them.

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Almost instant, first time he stacked hard, we had to pick him up and dust him off!  Went to the bike and the error was there straight away. Second time was within 5 mins of getting back on. He's afraid to ride it now, he crashes a lot!

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Thanks for the info all, lots more to think about, especially the new motors coming inline and whether I'm being too harsh on the orbea, given good warranty experience cited above.
Has anyone got experience of Whyte warranty claims?

There's an owners group on Facebook for the Orbea and lots of people seem to have paint issues with the Wild FS. Add to that that the Large is only 455 reach and you cant size up due to the seat tube height/seat post insertion.

I was previously dead set n the Orbea but not really sure where to go now.

Has anyone got experience of Whyte warranty claims?

Only with bearings on the frame. You send them off, get new ones back. no discussion, no debate.

Someones always releasing a new motor, Brose seem to do one a year, Bosch just released the Gen 4, Yamaha have been tweaking away as well and so on, Shimano E8000 was a decent enough motor, i liked it, bar the switch over the speed limit being a bit harsh, the new one i dare say will be a bit smaller, a bit lighter but do the same as the E8000 i'd guess.

How do people carry their bike in/on cars? It seems all the roof mounted bike racks are lacking in weight capacity and not sure i'd be wanting to lift a 20+kg bike over my head to mount on a roof mounted rack. Is the only sensible option, for those without vans, tow bar mounted racks?

I stick mine in the car, wheels off and in the boot, main bike in the back seat with a bike cover on it.

If i have to stick it externally, i have a saris that i put on the back, i again take the wheels off and stick in boot, then put the bike on the rack and secure with all ties, and a back up ratchet tie. I find this best as you can check the rear view to see if there's any slipping going on and pull over to correct if needs be.

battery out, fit onto old Thule towbar rack.

Yakima towball rack for mine. Not cheap, but works a treat :

https://www.roofbox.co.uk/scripts/rbvehsel4_tab.php/car-specific-accessories/yakima_justclick_2_bike_tow_bar_carrier_no_8002486/Qx%40w%2C6M42VAwp3%40Rb%7B~cC4ure_iAqS

Been having a browse at ebikes myself, I won’t be flinging it down any black runs, more local woods, forest roads and such like.

I may already know the answer to this... but why are most of the good ebikes 150mm + travel? Perhaps I’m just stuck in the “I don’t need loads of travel, 140mm max is all you need” camp or is a case of why wouldn’t you give it a fair bit of travel? It’s a heavier bike that’s potentially carrying a bit more speed?

I definitely want a FS for the comfort but I have always had the opinion that I don’t require 150mm travel, I could easily get away with much less but the options seem to be thinner on the ground? Am I just a Luddite?

The theory goes that a 150mm ebike feels similar on trails to a 120mm regular bike. The assist helps keep the pace up, the weigh is kinda irrelevant and the extra weight is balanced out by the extra travel.

I have a 150mm Spesh Levo SL and it feels really nimble and pretty much like my old 12mm Anthem but with a much better me riding it !

Thanks for clearing that up Iain, that is kind of what I assumed. Ideally looking to go 27.5” wheels aswell because I’m im a short arse and think 29” wheels on small bikes looks daft.

Canyon Neuron.
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/e-bikes/e-mountain-bikes/neuron-on/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH89jBMaqr4

I would try both wheel sizes before you decide.
Hard to tell the difference looking between them, both mediums

[img] [/img]

The short arse is on the 29er

[img] [/img]

Also short, on a 29er 😎

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I'm 1m77 on a Medium Rail (29er)

I wouldn't worry too much about travel, 150mm on ebikes is equaling out some of the things like bottoming out and additional bike weight, etc. They tend to have quite conservative geometry, which is what you'd notice more, so a 150mm has similar geo to 130s in many instances, of course there are some proper enduro geometry style ebikes, but in many instances i tend to see quite conservative geometry.

I went with the 27.5 as i like that size, but easily could've done the 29er in the cube stereo hybrid 140s, again the motor and power that you can use to assist provides a balance to the 27.5/29 question, leaving you with just feel.

Thanks for the info folks, I like the Canyons but the mail order thing puts me off. I was speaking to somebody this morning and they mentioned that when you hit the max speed the motor resits so you can’t go faster. Is that right or do some disengage the motor after that speed?

Im going to go and see a Trek Rail and try and find an Orbea dealer near me in Dundee to see them on the metal. The more I see the Orbea the more I like it, but the Trek is still out in front.

Ps, what bike are you riding Iain? Looks good. I’m only 5ft 6 so.. I definitely class myself as vertically challenged.

^^^ it’s a Spesh Levo SL, I’ve only had it a few weeks. I am 5ft 9.5 with short legs and it’s a large with a 150mm dropper. I did wonder if I’d need to get the dropper swopped to 125mm but the 150mm one fits with about 3mm to spare. Geometry is spot and and it’s an absolute blast to ride.

Glad you are enjoying back on the bike.
Just got the forks and brakes to do on ours and then we can do a side by side test on Turbo Levo and Levo SL.

Thanks Tracey, just gentle trails within 5 miles of home as thats the deal here in Scotland for the next few weeks. Best for shoulder rehab anyway ! I’m quite impressed with the battery life, been doing a bit over 20 miles, with about 1500 feet of climbing, mix of road and gravel and coming home with 40% battery remaining. Haven’t used the extender yet.

Will be interesting to see how you find it compared to the regular Turbo Levo..

I carry our Ebikes on a towball rack, my car is a subaru forester, no way could i lift even a road bike up that high, never mind an ebike.
It’s a buzzrack scorpion, one of the relatively few racks rated for 2 ebikes.

We bought a Thule Velospace XT to replace our old Thule. E Bikes fitted great on the one time we used it before we got a great Black Friday deal on a Tourneo Custom.
Bikes fit in the back with bike shrouds and clamped down between second row of seats and rear boot lid

[img] [/img]

Where in Scotland are you Iain? How do you find the bike for assistance etc? Been doing some reading up on the Levo SL today and it’s what I’m looking for in terms of what it offers.

Never ridden or even sat on an ebike before so I have no idea what a “full power” ebike is like. The Levo SL looks like a good compromise.

East Kilbride, and I got the bike from Dales. It is perfect for what I need, which is a little help on steep bits due to a bit of a heart problem where I need to stay away from peak HR spikes. Easy to control on road and gravel but not so much on MTB terrain. I did have an Orbea Wild briefly last year but had a silly fall on its first outing at Cathkin with an unfortunate shoulder injury that had me off the bike for 7 months. I sold the Orbea as it was just too much bike for me. I find the Levo SL a great compromise of a bit of assist but still feels like a slightly heavy regular bike and rides like a regular full susser. It’s also easy to pedal with the power off !

I had a ride yesterday on one of the latest e-bikes to come on the market, the Liteville 301CE Mk1. Very impressed. Liteville 301CE Mk1

I had a ride yesterday on one of the latest e-bikes to come on the market, the Liteville 301CE Mk1

That interesting that Liteville have released that with the ‘old’ shimano 8000 motor, when the rumour mill suggest a new motor is to released imminently

I have been in touch with my local Specialized supplier to hopefully book a demo on a Levo SL, looking forward to my first outing on an Ebike. I’m thinking it will be ideal for my failing knees and get me out riding more often and on more challenging terrain.

Yaaay, be ready to empty your pockets ! Whereabouts are you ?

In Dundee so I have contacted Nicholson’s as they are the local Specialized dealer and I’ll get in touch with somebody who does Trek and I’ll take it from there. It’s a very early 40th birthday present to myself..

Bit of feedback on the Trek Rail(s) for anyone who’s interested. The OH and I have both got Trek Rails, hers is a 7, mine a 9.8. They were insurance replacements for our ‘nice’ acoustic bikes that were pinched out of our van last year.

Fortunately, we’d got some old bikes to knock about on, so took our time demoing and researching ebikes before we bought. I really like the way the Spesh Levo’s ride, but one of the sales and mechanics chaps at Evans showed me the pros and cons of the both the Rail and Levo, and there were a couple of things on the Levo that weren’t as user friendly as the Rail. The main one being removing the battery. On the Rail you just unlock the battery with a small key, and handle pops out the top of the battery, and you lift it out the side of the down tube. It’s so quick to do that if we have to leave our bikes locked outside a cafe for a couple of minutes, we take the batteries out of the bikes. If you also leave them in top gear, no-ones gonna make a quick getaway on the with no batteries😄

The other big thing that put me off the Levo was when I popped into one of the big local shops that sell a range of brands (JE James’s). The workshop had three Brose motors on the bench for warranty, and the mechanic said ‘oh yeah, that’s this weeks batch going for warranty’ That rang alarm bells a bit!

We ended up having several demo rides on the Trek Rail from one of the shops in the Peak and, based on the dealers background and reputation, we bought the bikes from him. My wife paid the difference to upgrade the standard 130mm dropper on her Rail 7 to a 170mm, and I swapped out the 470g! Alu handlebars for some carbon ones I had spare. I borrowed her bike a few times while I was waiting for my 9.8 and really liked it.

The main reasons I went for the 9.8 was the weight difference, as I have to lift it to chest height to load it into our van - and the red and black colour😁

Ride wise, I actually prefer the ride of the aluminium framed Rails, and if the 9 had been available in a colour I liked, I’d have definitely gone for it, because the weight difference is negligible. The Alu frames seem to have just the right amount of give to feel like they’re floating over chattery ground, whereas the carbon has more of a ‘race tuned’ feel about it.  TBH, in hindsight, I wish I’d have gone for a Rail 7 or 9 and saved the difference in cost.

My wife’s had no issues with her 7, but I had a couple of minor things that Trek have had to sort on my 9.8. I started to realise the value of a decent shop and warranty. Ttek also replaced the shock under warranty when it got slightly scratched while it was in for its 100 hour service. They're also going to replace the 150mm seatpost that came on the bike because I realised that the bike should have come with a 170 dropper from new - I wasn’t arsey about it, I just If the spec had changed - but when I mentioned it to the dealer, he said he’d query it with Trek, and they came back and said they’d swap it FOC!

In fairness, I’ve had a few Specialized full sus bikes, and when I had a warranty issue with one of them, it was sorted very quickly without issue.

Anyways, hope these ramblings are useful.

Scott seems to meet your spec, might be worth a look.

Morning,

I took the plunge in Nov 19 and bought a Merida E140. After 1600 miles I can say the following about the E8000 and 504WH battery combo

1. Its a lot lounder than the Bosch systems but its never intrusive and I pretty much tune out to it.

2. Like you I bought it for range, gaining altitude rather than sticking it in boost and playing 25kph until the battery died. I am 102kg and with camelback etc probably nearer 106kg on the bike. In Eco my range limit is consistently around 50km and 950m of ascent. That is in a mix of estate roads and singletrack climbs. If you climb less the range goes up and vice versa. I have never found the range a major issue.

3. The Merida specifically, I know the 140 is the oddball choice given its the same price as the 160, but I wanted something that would climb better and be a bit more playful on my local trails (stuff that I would ride on 80% of the time) Its been perfect. Not put a foot wrong in 1600 miles. Eats chains in the winter time when the abrasive grit etc is at its worst. Experimented with expensive chains (although not tried e bike specific yet) and they all wear. I typically wait until CRC or similar has a 50% discount offer on bobby base 12sp chains and buy 3 or 4 and keep them "in stock"

I don't think you will regret any of your shortlist. Also, I don't think there is any merit in waiting for better technology. If we did that nobody would own a laptop, phone etc...

Hope this helps

Dave