I ride with a road club; I also mountain bike. I’ve met great people on both sides; and the notion that roadies are all miserable barstewards is just totally wrong.
90% of the roadies I see are grimacing not smiling. 75% will not knowledge me because I am not wearing the uniform. I really does not look like they are having fun
A smiling roadie that waves is a rare thing indeed
does not look like they are having fun
Why do you think they do it then?
Not read all the way through, but drop rides have been a thing for generations on road, it's high level stuff though, but no different to group rides in mountain biking where folk drop off as they're not up to doing hills, or the DH runs, you have the option of stopping and returning to base.
It's all hobbies for different mindsets, i've never been much of a road rider, same as when i used to run i couldn't do pavement pounding, i've not got the attention span for it, i need stuff to keep me refocusing, otherwise i'd be in the back of a car every week 😂
Roadies are just 'different', probably why I prefer to ride off in a small group.
It’d be like me whinging about people doing massive drops and jumps and how it can’t possibly be fun because it’s terrifying and makes me feel faint. I just ain’t built for that !
Fair enough Steve. The drops and jumps don't have to be massive, just start small and learn.
If we ignore the cars/vans/trucks and the fact that the road doesn't offer much variation in levels of grip (which off-road is a great source of fun/hilarity/, what does road riding offer that MTB doesn't?
Sheer speed? Acceleration? The challenge of twisty descents on skinny tyres?
Sheer speed? Acceleration? The challenge of twisty descents on skinny tyres?
Well, yes.
And faster access to scenery than heavy draggy MTB
Isn’t that just line dancing on bikes?
No, that’s gravel riding – checked shirts, beards and beers.
Sound a helluva lot more fun than riding to max heart rate watching the arse of the guy in front for multiple hours.... I'm in!
😉
It doesn’t sound like a lot of fun, as in giggle fun, like in MTB where you have obstacles, challenges, opportunities to cock up, jumps, berms, etc etc etc.
Try bombing down a fast alpine road descent some time.
Guess what, you can enjoy mountain riding and also enjoy road biking. Not line dancing though.
Well, yes.
And faster access to scenery than heavy draggy MTB
Fair enough. Didn't think of that as my access to scenery off road is 150m away. That prism again 😂.
Try bombing down a fast alpine road descent some time.
Sounds like fun if you live in the Alps although cars etc?
Also, how does the impression of speed compares to going down the same mountain off road on a MTB I wonder? And which will be more fun? (if you have the technical skills and are not terrified by drops and jumps of course).
https://flic.kr/p/2ptkBV1
https://www.instagram.com/stories/ukgravelco/3284330192485654700?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=MTBsNGlqeDhmYm04ZQ==
I feel an idea for a new sticker coming..
Most of this thread comes down to a lack of good faith in other people's choices.
- that person is doing something recreational
- at the point in time I perceive them, they do not look to be enjoying themselves
- they are miserable
- their choice of leisure activity is bad
There's certainly an overt seriousness to some riders on the road I dislike - it does not cost you watts to say hi - and I can't do much about that.
But: talk to those grumpy looking riders at the end of the ride, sit in the pub or cafe with them, and you'll find it harder to believe that whatever they just did wasn't fun.
And whilst this thread started out about drop rides, it's descended into general distrust that road cycling can be enjoyable at all. I am never going to be athletic enough to enjoy a drop ride - not least for the co-ordination a chain gang requires - but I also made peace with it being something another person can enjoy.
And road riding isn't all just grimacing out watts. It's casual social rides with friends, it's early morning hill climbs and laps, it's 200km+ audax rides, it's touring, it's going from my front door in a city to rolling hills faster than public transport, it's hill climbs and TTs and a miniature world run on Windows XP, church halls and custard creams.
(Just like riding off road is trails and XC and gnarr and DH and enduro and entertaining drop bar bikes and Big Mountain Days and local bimbling and ultras and messing around in the woods)
I don't like everything on either list, at all, in some cases. I don't distrust that somebody else does, though, even if that somebody is a straw man I have invented. "It's not for me," isn't a sentence that needs qualification.
Bikes are great, and so is what a human body can do on them.
- that person is doing something recreational
- clearly there's something in it if they'd rather do that than something else
- obviously it's not for me but go them
- maybe I'll go do the thing I enjoy doing later
- god, bikes are great, aren't they?
Also, how does the impression of speed compares to going down the same mountain off road on a MTB I wonder? And which will be more fun? (if you have the technical skills and are not terrified by drops and jumps of course).
Which is better chocolate cake or fudge brownies? Assuming you're not terrified of chocolate of course. Or a dog...
If you really want to know, why not give it a try? I've done both from the same lift station, both a hoot, just different.
my access to scenery off road is 150m away
The problem with local trails is that there aren't many of them by definition. Eventually if you live somewhere long enough you end up riding it all over and over again. Of course this happens to everyone, but being able to ride further always opens up a bigger area on either type of bike.
Also, how does the impression of speed compares to going down the same mountain off road on a MTB I wonder?
Depends how fast you are prepared to go.
What about when you do through and off on a mtb ride, winding the speed up on a flat section – should there be self-loathing or not ?
Probably just giggling ime. Particularly if you catch an innocent roadie in the process 🙂
@infovore - good post.
I do MTB and road riding, both are great fun in their own different ways. I don’t do downhill but I’m sure people who ride that are great guys too and have a lot of fun, however unappealing I find it personally.
In terms of personal experience, when I’m riding the MTB and wave to a roadie I find they usually wave back. Maybe roadies in the SE are just nicer?
variation in levels of grip (which off-road is a great source of fun/hilarity
Not for me. I hate sliding around, it ruins rides for me.
FWIW if I'm riding with a group of folk on the road I'd prefer they kept their hands on the bars. If anyone waves at me (a rare occurrence) then I'll usually just nod back. I'm not sure what all this waving thing is about anyway. I certainly don't acknowledge every cyclist I see when out on either road, gravel or MTB because there are just so many.
I’m not sure what all this waving thing is about anyway.
I read an interesting piece about saying hello to people, strangers, who you encountered and how it was a positive thing to do because it basically sends out the signal that the world isn't such a dangerous, hostile place. Just smiling and nodding does the same thing.
I suspect the flipside of this, for some folk, is that being 'ignored' by another rides is a sort of low-grade hostility. Bear in mind that we're talking sub-conscious, visceral stuff here, not logical, rational level reasoning. Being blanked when you say 'Hi' to someone is similarly a little jarring, even though you know rationally it's not personal.
Personally I tend to say hello to people / smile / nod / maybe a gentle raise of the hand, not so much because it's profoundly important, but because if it makes someone else feel generally more positive about the world, then that's a good thing.
It's more problematic when there are lots of people - ever ridden the opposite direction to a sportive or some charity mountain bike challenge, you stop bothering pretty quickly or turn into some sort of nodding dog - and there's definitely a cultural norm thing going on too. Say hello to someone you don't know in London and you'll likely be arrested, here in the Peak, it's quite common, especially in the outdoors, though not quite the norm, not far off though.
I used to ride with a guy who'd weaponised saying 'HELLO!!!' incredibly loudly to the point where people looked genuinely surprised and borderline scared. That seemed a little excessive, but was also quite funny to watch.
It’s more problematic when there are lots of people –
Definitely an issue around here. Away from the honeypot areas I'm more likely to chat to other outdoors folk, be they biking, walking, working, whatever. In fact, on Thursday I bumped into a guy who was with his husky, sledding between bothies. We had a good old chinwag about fatbikes, temperamental dogs etc. I think it's maybe that the clannishness means little to me, so I don't feel the compulsion to acknowledge everyone who just happens to be on a bike.
There's a similar vibe when driving on single track roads too. A wave to acknowledge someone who stops in a passing place is generally accepted practice, though it gets a bit old when you are, for instance, driving anticlockwise on a section of the NC500 in Summer 😀
I always thought the “miserable roadie” stereotype was just a low level cliched bit of internet banter, which is fair enough, but interesting/amazed to see that some people really believe it.
More interesting that those same people still refuse to accept roadies might enjoy the pastime they undertake voluntarily, despite:
A) Loads of people on this thread saying they enjoy it and explaining why,
B) the entire history and concept of road cycling the world over- which, let’s face it, is in terms of participants, is likely several factors larger than mountain biking.
It’s a pretty wild take.
Duggan
Full Member
I always thought the “miserable roadie” stereotype was just a low level cliched bit of internet banter, which is fair enough, but interesting/amazed to see that some people really believe it.More interesting that those same people still refuse to accept roadies might enjoy the pastime they undertake voluntarily, despite:
A) Loads of people on this thread saying they enjoy it and explaining why,
B) the entire history and concept of road cycling the world over- which, let’s face it, is in terms of participants, is likely several factors larger than mountain biking.
It’s a pretty wild take.
I don't know who you mean by "some people" but while I can totally see that fun can take loads of form, I think the likelihood and opportunities of having fun off road seems greater unless of course, as someone said it involves an unacceptable level of injury risk or fear, and in which case then I can see why staying on the road is the obvious choice if someone doesn't want to develop the skills to access the fun that can only exists off road, like sliding, jumping etc (I am not talking about massive jumps here, that basic fun can be achieved very easily and progressively, no need for an inferiority complex). So again, does the sheer speed and Alpine descents offsets for that?
I accept the subjectivity of it of course but probably only up to a point. I don't think my perception of roadies tending to be more grumpy is fair however. They may have more restraint in displaying how much fun they're having, nothing wrong with that.
Lol no I don’t see why I should deconstruct why I personally find road cycling more fun than mountain biking- just accept that some people do, it’s a demonstrable fact.
I personally cannot see the appeal of caving, it looks to me like something that would happen in a nightmare. I accept that lots of people love it and even dedicate their lives to it though.
I might mean potholing, not caving tbf 🤔
if someone doesn’t want to develop the skills to access the fun that can only exists off road
Have you ever watched pro roadies descending? Weird superiority complex.
I think the likelihood and opportunities of having fun off road seems greater
I think you lack empathy. You don't seem able to appreciate how come something that you enjoy might be absolutely unappealing to someone else and vice versa. You and I might like zipping down singletrack, getting air here and there and railing berms or whatever, but if someone else sees absolutely zero fun in that, why would they put up with the mud, the unrideable climbs, the access problems and the general faff of getting to trails?
Most of this thread comes down to a lack of good faith in other people’s choices.
It does seem to, I think it's 50% conscious trolling, 50% willful ignorance.
Lots of the comments are of the 'outside looking in' variety and/or interpreting a lack of cheery waves as "misery".
I tend to acknowledge other strangers on two wheels whatever I am riding, and so do most of the 'roadies' I ride with. But we don't get affronted when "blanked" which happens about as much with MTBists as any other sub-niche of bicycle user.
For those that feel they're constantly snubbed by the lycra lout crowd some things to mull:
1- If they're riding in a close bunch at speed, they might not prioritise validating some bloke going the other way on an MTB, they don't hate you, they're not miserable, they're just trying to concentrate on not crashing into the back of Pete's new cervelo.
2- If riding solo, they might just be a bit lost in their own thoughts, or simply a bit ragged from a big push, in that moment they are the centre of their own universe and you may simply not have been noticed at all.
3- Are you the problem? Do you hold strangers to the same expectation of instant engagement in other areas of life? Walking about town, do you nod and wave at everyone you pass and then ascribe any lack of engagement to deep rooted personality flaws? I get the whole "a stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet" thing, but not everyone is as aggressively "social" and that's fine, learn to let it go in the moment not harbour some deep resentment of a group you don't really know much about...
As for the original topic, yeah, of course 'drop rides' are a thing and it makes sense, people have different fitness and expectations. If you don't tell some the distance and pace and that you won't be waiting for stragglers they're not going to be happy when they do get dropped.
The thing to note is that if 'drop rides' are a thing, then naturally enough 'No drop rides' are also. In fact I'd say 'No drop' is the norm for the groups I tend to ride with, we just don't need to use the term.
I posted earlier on the thread to defend the idea of road biking for fitness, and that on some rides folks get dropped. And I have done a few trips with mates - Belgian classics related and a few long days in the Alps, a few sportives inc Fred Whitton, which require getting pretty fit, which for me means riding for training. All of which is more sort of satisfying experience than laugh out loud fun.
Basically each to their own. Presently I'll be grinding across a moor getting wet and trying to avoid coming off on the icy bits. I'd not sell that too hard to anyone not into it.
But mtb is a lot more actual fun than road. It just is.
Most of this thread comes down to a lack of good faith in other people’s choices.
It's more like the Ladybird book of Metaphysics. The one where someone painstakingly explains to Janet and John that internalised concepts like 'having fun' are entirely subjective. John likes playing netball. He enjoys it. Janet on the other hand, enjoys sky-diving and embroidery. John hates sky-diving, but quite likes embroidery and grudgingly concedes that Janet may have point, though no way is embroidery a patch on netball.
Then Sasha arrives, Sasha is a deceptively demure sociopath who enjoys nothing more than machine-gunning kittens and yoga. Eventually, as rational people, they sit down with a cup of tea - which they all agree is wonderful - and discuss who is 'having the most fun'.
Apart from Sasha, who lacks empathy and is incapable of seeing anyone else's point of view unless there's something in it for her, they eventually realise that there is no objective measure for 'having fun' - not scoring goals in netball, not spending minutes free-falling, not even creating a perfect piece of embroidery without sticking a needle through your finger, because HAVING FUN IS SUBJECTIVE, IT HAPPENS INSIDE YOUR HEAD.
They all agree on this except for Sasha who machine guns the others and declares that she is having the most fun after all, though goat yoga would run it close.
By now all the other children have died of boredom and gone home.
THE END
BWD says it well
I think a lot of this is about not understanding the others point of view.
Near me there is a road that is very twisty then has a long straight ( 3 miles?) then back to twisties - thus if you are on the road on your bike you get a solid stream of cars accelerating up to 60 + mph on the straight bit - but its narrow so close passes are common. Alongside the road in a belt of trees is a really nice gravel cyclepath . One time I am riding along the nice path not having to have cars come past my elbow and looking at the trees and the view. A group of roadies come past on the road - literally having a constant stream of cars overtaking them.
I'm enjoying my ride much more that I would enjoy theirs. My guess is they wouldn't enjoy the nice cyclepath despite being car free as they could not go so fast.
I find their attitude weird but I bet they would find mine weird
I am lucky enough to have 7 bikes, all very different. The experience of riding each of them is very different, from the rigid steel 26" singlespeed to the road bike with carbon everything and Di2. I'd be really hard pressed to say which is the most fun - it depends on my mood, the weather, the company or lack of it, and the conditions under my wheels. All bikes are great and we are all free to do whatever sort of riding we want. Chain gangs are great, even if you get dropped, cake rides are great even if you are gluten intolerant. Even desperately unfashionable xc rides are great, especially on my shiny race hardtail. Just get out and ride.
I think you lack empathy
I'm not sure if some on here are lacking empathy or just trolling, to be fair.
I’m not sure if some on here are lacking empathy or just trolling, to be fair.
Who do you mean? Don't be shy, I can take it.
I appreciate I may sound like trolling. I still haven't said you couldn't have fun on a road bike. Just that it seemingly happens less often than off road, by and large.
I totally accept that fun is essentially subjective, hence the example of S&M which is a lot of fun for some. But it would seem that off road, there are more numerous opportunities for cock ups, trees, brambles, slides, cased jumps, farmers, mud etc.
I am not saying shit doesn't happen on the road but surely we can at least agree that on the road, there tends to be less hazards (I didn't say none of course, like potholes).
Surely we can also agree that there are less cars off road, which is not really offset by the presence of stray dogs and ramblers 😂
To me both those objective facts help the fun factor.
if someone doesn’t want to develop the skills to access the fun that can only exists off road
Have you ever watched pro roadies descending? Weird superiority complex.
I was responding to the poster who said he didn't like MTB because he wasn't confident with jumps and stuff. Nothing wrong with that.
No complex at all.
FFS it's just good old Devil Take The Hindmost, we used to do it all the time. The penultimate rider would just shout "I've had enough " .We'd turn around and mosey home back the way we came sometimes picking up dropped lads on the way back and laughing about the pain . Sometimes you were a winner sometimes you were the victim of a ribbing that's now called banter, you played if you wanted to , and if you didn't it was all the same.
It’s more like the Ladybird book of Metaphysics.
(...)
THE END
Lovely prose but a lot of words that only amount to a sophism, at best.
I was responding to the poster who said he didn’t like MTB because he wasn’t confident with jumps and stuff.
That was me, and if that's what you took from that then ... Wow. I bloody love mountain biking, but I ain't a drops and jumps type. To be honest, you seem so focused on the white knuckle type of "fun" that you can't see other types of fun exist. I love doing a 100km Sunday ride, especially on a warm sunny day. Good chat in the group, opportunity to take a turn on the front and get some power down. Sausage and black pudding butties at the half way cafe, and a nice cruise home, all shared with people I enjoy spending time with. Not once do I think "ooh this would be so much better if the corners were nadgery" or like I'm missing out on sessioning a 200m bit of downhill 20 times!
Steve you had mentioned "massive jumps and drops" indeed. Which I don't think I ever mentioned. They come in all shapes and sizes, at least off road.
They don't need to be big to be fun.
They don’t need to be big to be fun
You need to have jumps to have fun?
I am not saying shit doesn’t happen on the road but surely we can at least agree that on the road, there tends to be less hazards (I didn’t say none of course, like potholes).
All the most serious cycling injuries I've seen have been on the road. It's much more dangerous than MTB riding.
It might come as a surprise to you, but for the vast majority of the population more danger does not equal more fun.
It’s much more dangerous than MTB riding.
I dunno...my Instagram feed seems full of mountain bikers crashing into things 😄
