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Yes actually. They said some comment (in a jokey way) about it being nigh on impossible to make the perfect dropout to cover 10/11/12 speed, but that they had a modified dropout being produced and available in October and that they would send me a set free of charge when they had it.
I'm happy with that, but don't really get the dropout and different speed issue as I had thought all mechs were based on the same fundamental geometry.
Hmm. There are standards for dropouts, they're not different for different numbers of rear cogs. Their dropout is unlike any others I've ever seen - I still think they've ballsed up and made it wrong.
I think bencooper and mlindarets analyses are spot on. I discovered this thread whilst having exactly the same frustration with my recently acquired Shan 26" 2014. It fouls the chain going from 26-down through the next 2 gears.
So that means the reply from PP
is double bollocks because they designed it this way back in 2013 right..nigh on impossible to make the perfect dropout to cover 10/11/12 speed,
As Ben says there is one standard, saying that trying to meet 10/11/12 is tough, is just a poor excuse I think.
This is my 2nd hand frame but with brand new xt771 cassette, and brand new RD786 rear mech, one up 42t and radr cage. (pic taken whilst frame upside down). The mech is hard up against the B stop.
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As you can see the angle is very much wrong compared to any other shimano equipped bike. eg here is my mega TR and the wifes trigger.The shan is about 20-30degrees off the horizontal
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So I did a rudimentary 5 minute measure by scanning the hanger (luckily its flat), scaling the image in cad to make sure the hole sizes were correct and then measuring a few angles.
If you add the shimano recommended 30degree (well I did it rough its 32) line you can see the hanger is miles off, its somewhere between 45 and 59degrees where it contacts the mech. According to the shimano drawings above (reprinted below for ref) the angle of the b-tab contact face on the tang should be radial to the centre of the mech bolt hole, of which it is a looong way off. This need proper measuring to be sure but I recon I am accurate to at least 5 degrees, which even so puts us somewhere around 20-30 degrees off..
(Note that the "vertical" I have taken the angle off is parallel to the line from the centre of the axle to the tangent of the OD of the hanger -these dims are prescribed in the shimano doc)
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So I tried it with the expander ring removed, the normal cassette (11-36) and it still has only about 110 degrees of engagement as per kayak and does not shift well. I do know how to set up a mech..
So far, I emailed PP yesterday but have not had a response, yet. I called and apparently the technical guys are away until tonight.
TBh I am double peeved as I bought his for my fast growing daughter, and then got a bit excited and got the 27.5 Shan 917, the last one in small, for myself, but I have had a look at the hanger and a brief inspection reveals that 2 years later, the 2016 model still has the same issue. as per Kayak, doom as I was about to order the 26 drop outs too..
Options
1) goat link - looks Ok, but engagement still not perfect.
2) This alternative goatlink, the [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pilo-S10-adapter-for-Shimano-shadow-direct-link-rear-derailleur-/112179350386 ]Pilo S10[/url] has even more of an angle back again, it might give better wrap but also looks a bit short, I have ordered..
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3) Try Sram kit? Cheap GX mech and 10 speed shifter are £62 from CRC, have ordered to try and fit u, al least I can return if I am careful.
4) See if PP have fixed the mech hangers?
5) Persuade an after market hanger manufacturer to make replacement hangers, but educate them in how the PP one is wrong. I have emailed BETD and Pilo with this thread and my "measurements" perhaps one of them will latch on.
6) Measure and manufacture myself, and ebay off 10 or so to try and cover costs.. I am considering this..
(PS I was toys19, I banned myself by mangling my password, did the same a year or so later with toys192, so I promise not to hang around but I just wanted to chip in here.)
Re the Pilo, a quick measure of the shimano DRD link shows its about 25mm centre to centre, so the Pilo at 27.2 might be OK actually. I would still rather have a conforming mech hanger.
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Very interesting Toys.
Glad to know it's not just me that had an issue but obviously sorry that you do, in what are otherwise such beautiful frames.
I had an email from PP the other day letting me know that the revised hangars were being manufactured and would be sent right out to me. They are being very friendly and helpful.
I've not received the hanger yet but will report back as soon as I do.
Thanks for the sympathy! Sorry about yours too, I am V excited to [s]ride this[/s] see my daughter riding this.
I shall hassle PP again tomorrow. That will be great if I can fix the new 27.5, but I need to find a solution for the 26er. And I was going to use the 27.5 in 26 for a while too, so I would like the conversion drop outs fixed too...
So statistically we have three frames with incorrect dropouts, I wonder how many other Shan or OKA owners are just having shifting problems and don't know why, because even without an expander the wrap is poor, I wouldn't want to ride it like that.
PPS I have just been emailing Richard at [url= http://www.revolutioncomponents.com/product/derailleur-hangers/production-privee-shan-27-5-derailleur-hanger/ ]revolution components in NZ[/url] they make a PP mech hanger. Trying to find out if they conform to shimano standard or have copied PP directly.
I have to say it 'looks' close to conforming..
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Gah they do the 135mm ones and they look exactly like the PP ones. At least with a small manufacturer like that they can probably adjust the design.
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PPPS Richard tells me that he thinks he did a run for the local PP importer to solve this, so could be interesting... Further bulletins as events warrant..
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Maybe it's worth a thread on Pinkbike where I suspect there may be more Shan/Oka owners. See if any others are having issues.
Yeah thats a good idea. I'll have a hunt.
I started nice... But I am going to add my issues straight away.
http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=194938
So I have got my replacement dropout from Production Privee. I've not had a chance to try it yet but it's definitely different.
I've been away from this problem for a while because I've been waiting on the new dropout but I've had the 26" wheelset in the bike running with the Goatlink and it's been fine since.
This new dropout is for the 27.5" wheelset to be run (If I remember right!!!... 😕 )
Here is the original dropout.
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Here is the replacement dropout
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And here is an overlay image of the two. The reddened one above is the original one with the newer one at the back.
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They may not be lined up perfectly (I was balancing on a stool trying to be directly above) but you get the idea.
Quite a difference in the tab position.
Bang on shimano standard. Good stuff.
MUst have got the apprentice to do the CAD for the first one.
10mm hole, tab, sorted...........
[quote=ghostlymachine ]MUst have got the apprentice to do the CAD for the first one.
10mm hole, tab, sorted...........
Nope PP's design is like the first.
Yeah, the apprentice at PP. 10mm hole, Tab, sorted........
What do you mean the tabs in the wrong place?
Standards? What, does the cycling industry actually have any?
I'm having the same issue with my Oka and 26 conversion dropouts with Zee 10sp mech and 11-40 Sunrace cassette. Chain fouls the mech actuation arm downshifting from larger sprockets and no chain wrap to speak of. Have got around it for now by mounting the b-link rotated anti-clockwise past the b-stop and using grip paste to prevent rotation - hasn't shifted yet, but having to use excessive b-tension to get the mech to take up chain slack in the 11t. Have emailed PP to see if it can be resolved for my 135x10 hangers.
It shouldn't happen but, a Goatlink sorts it...
Mine seems fine now and shifts very well 10sp 11-42
I was thinking of trying that or the Pilo S10 adapter if it couldn't be sorted at the hanger end
The new drop outs were better but still not great (if I recall...It's been a while) and so I kept the Goatlink on which makes everything run very nicely.
I since changed the Oka to a Shan and kept the same drivetrain and all runs well (still with the Goatlink, not tried without it)
Looking at the photos above, especially those by toys (once I'd inverted them!), I think I may have the updated drop out design as my link is almost horizontal.
I'll post a pic...
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Btw, if it hasn't been said yet, slipping gears when you change your chain is caused by the cassette being also too worn.Brand new cassette same time as chain. Sunrace 11-42
Could also be not enough chain engaging
@SammyC, that link is still going fairly uphill.
So it's giving you problems is it?
I've only ridden it around the block a couple of times and seems OK, but gear setup was really sensitive.
Had it checked by a local bike shop but agreed it didn't look right, hence the post on here